Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
-
- Tags
- ancient greece alternate history empire builder civ quest democracy gods save us granary management hubris it's an eretrian thing. let lose the weasels of war lithocracy lithocracy is my fetish maximum hellene my big fat greek divine wedding this granary aint gonna fill itself cetash unwinnable
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
In the forum, they call the old man Halophilos, "salt-lover."
It is not a name given of affection.
There are audible groans as he rises to speak, borne on the shoulders of two sons and a student, as he has every election these sixteen years -- "again, Kyrillos Halophilos?" -- but he is not the sort of man to be deterred by mere unpopularity.
"Again, the sons of Drakon waste our time with this useless expansion of the harbor! The auguries are clear -- the gods look upon us with disfavor because we have yet again squandered the blessings our poleis was granted by Lord Poseidon and Lady Demeter. They have given our city a blessing of salt, and yet we have built no saltworks to honor their blessing; Salapia of the Dauni prospers instead from the salt that is our birthright.
And yet again, despite the auguries, the Drakonioi do not act! We traffic in neither salt nor garum, to the profit of the Trapani and the Syrakousoi, because the Drakonioi profit from the present circumstances. The auguries have spoken -- this city cannot prosper so long as the sons of Drakon hold office.
So say I, Kyrillos of Eretria, mathematikos."
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
Glory 2, Lawfulness 4, Friendliness 4, Courage 2, Magnificence 6, Wisdom 2
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 7, Friendliness 2, Courage 3, Magnificence 2, Wisdom 6
It is not a name given of affection.
There are audible groans as he rises to speak, borne on the shoulders of two sons and a student, as he has every election these sixteen years -- "again, Kyrillos Halophilos?" -- but he is not the sort of man to be deterred by mere unpopularity.
"Again, the sons of Drakon waste our time with this useless expansion of the harbor! The auguries are clear -- the gods look upon us with disfavor because we have yet again squandered the blessings our poleis was granted by Lord Poseidon and Lady Demeter. They have given our city a blessing of salt, and yet we have built no saltworks to honor their blessing; Salapia of the Dauni prospers instead from the salt that is our birthright.
And yet again, despite the auguries, the Drakonioi do not act! We traffic in neither salt nor garum, to the profit of the Trapani and the Syrakousoi, because the Drakonioi profit from the present circumstances. The auguries have spoken -- this city cannot prosper so long as the sons of Drakon hold office.
So say I, Kyrillos of Eretria, mathematikos."
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
Glory 2, Lawfulness 4, Friendliness 4, Courage 2, Magnificence 6, Wisdom 2
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 7, Friendliness 2, Courage 3, Magnificence 2, Wisdom 6
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- Location
- Mists of Albion
Bah! You speak ill of those who wear straw upon their heads! Do you not realise you insult the Metics! Those who the Antipatids stand as ally to? Those you vote for!
Further do you disrespect the Barabaroi of Epulia? Those who handed us, invincible Eretria, the closest we have come to defeat in battle? Who have served us well in war time and again? If I could bring more of these peoples into our Empire, to serve us and fight for us, their Greek Masters, I would be more than grateful.
Forget not the conduct of Metapontion in our last war together! Their incompetence! Their politicking! Their ungrateful nature and poor displays of soldiery! Though they may be Hellene, they impressed no one in their Arête!
Metapontion will never kneel to us, but we have proven, time and again, our ability to bring the Iapgyians into the fold! Let us slowly bind them to us as new subjects, rather than taking the burden of carrying Metapontions mistakes!
So speaks Ajax!
OOC: Metapontion was genuinely pretty shit in their war with us last time, they cost us Antipater in the first place ironically enough, and almost lost us our battle, I don't know if they've improved in that time, but I'd rather possibly absorb the Messapii, than deal with their shit again.
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PyroTechno
The Procrastination Pokemon
tl;dr: We have to elect two guys, each one comes with a plan attached, and they could be idiots. If an idiot is attached to a plan you like, you're fucked.
Domestic Goals side by side for comparison:
DRAKONIA:
- Expand the navy (+450 rowers, -450 land manpower, +3 triremes, 10.2 talents of upkeep per turn, 9 talent upfront cost)
- Everyone has different calendars, someone should keep track of that (-2 talents per turn, +3% trade efficiency, other advantages)
- Expand Byssos Harbor (-550 talent cost over 5 years (110 per year), +2 trade routes, +10 trade route cap)
We get an inexperienced merchant who's good at making friends
ANTIPATRIA:
- Attract more Greek people to expand our population (-10 talents, potential +pop growth, potential -citizen ratio, potential spy stuff)
- Suck it up and listen to the Metic's whining (Gain options to reform Metic stuff and make them stop whining for a while)
- Make our temples nicer (-480 talents over 5 years (96 per year), +city happiness and unity, +culture)
A different, wealthier merchant guy
EXORIA:
- Land reform (larger hoplite ratio in our army, -4 talents per turn, +city happiness)
- Trade more with the barbarians (-3 talents per turn, +1 overland trade route, +barbarian economic relations)
- Build a water and sewer system (wait, we don't already have this?) (-500 talents (up front?), takes 5 turns to build, +living standards, +happiness, +cleanliness, +siege defense)
A just man with an okayish military career
-----
Foriegn Goals side by side for comparison:
DRAKONIA:
- Anti-piracy mission (occupies 5 triremes, costs 52 talents, attempts to clear the Adriatic of piracy for ~10 years, could take 30 talents in sick l00t bois)
- AMBER!!!!1!11one (Potential colony at Venice, potential luxury trade route)
- Badmouth Syracuse with our allies (-10 talents, +might learn new, more accurate ways to badmouth Syracuse)
A blunt, wealthy ex-navy guy
ANTIPATRIA:
- Try to get a defensive alliance with Metapontion against Taras (+possible defensive alliance with Metapontion against Taras)
- Go punch some barbarians (-51.3 talents in army upkeep, occupies 3K men for 4 months, up to 15 talents of ill-gotten gainz lol, -barb raiding, +some other barbs like us more)
- The AI doesn't know how to manage AE XD (-15 talents, possible coalition against Syracuse)
A just ex-navy guy that needs a couple remedial oratory lessons
EXORIA:
- Poke our tributaries and see what happens (possible +tribute and levies, could reveal plots against us)
- Begin diplo-annexing some barbs (Defensive alliance with some barbs, maybe some tributaries later)
- Spy network in some other barbs (Could undermine the other barbs or get a CB or something like that)
A young, strong, friendly guy with new ideas
We currently have 259 talents in the treasury and 135.8 net income
We have 9/10 trade routes
-----
I'd prefer to go Drakonia for Domestic - I like big harbors and I cannot lie - but I don't like their guy. As my second choice, I'd go Antipatria. We could use more people, Metic whining is loud and grating, and the dice gods did give us a direct command to make our religious stuff nicer. We're superstitious ancient types, we're definitely supposed to care about that, and we can afford it, so why not?
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
If we go Drakonia, AFAIK we'll kill the pirates but our guy's bluntness will piss someone off during the Venice expedition. I'm not too impressed with Anti's guy either. Exoria's guy, however, seems like the kind of guy I can get behind, and even though I'm not entirely convinced that their foriegn plan should be our first priority, I know their guy will get it done. The part where we ignore Syracuse as irrelevant is also definitely something I approve of.
As far as the tradition that it be an old guy, well, it's only twenty years old. Might as well kill that tradition now, it doesn't strike me as a positive one.
[X] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
Domestic Goals side by side for comparison:
DRAKONIA:
- Expand the navy (+450 rowers, -450 land manpower, +3 triremes, 10.2 talents of upkeep per turn, 9 talent upfront cost)
- Everyone has different calendars, someone should keep track of that (-2 talents per turn, +3% trade efficiency, other advantages)
- Expand Byssos Harbor (-550 talent cost over 5 years (110 per year), +2 trade routes, +10 trade route cap)
We get an inexperienced merchant who's good at making friends
ANTIPATRIA:
- Attract more Greek people to expand our population (-10 talents, potential +pop growth, potential -citizen ratio, potential spy stuff)
- Suck it up and listen to the Metic's whining (Gain options to reform Metic stuff and make them stop whining for a while)
- Make our temples nicer (-480 talents over 5 years (96 per year), +city happiness and unity, +culture)
A different, wealthier merchant guy
EXORIA:
- Land reform (larger hoplite ratio in our army, -4 talents per turn, +city happiness)
- Trade more with the barbarians (-3 talents per turn, +1 overland trade route, +barbarian economic relations)
- Build a water and sewer system (wait, we don't already have this?) (-500 talents (up front?), takes 5 turns to build, +living standards, +happiness, +cleanliness, +siege defense)
A just man with an okayish military career
-----
Foriegn Goals side by side for comparison:
DRAKONIA:
- Anti-piracy mission (occupies 5 triremes, costs 52 talents, attempts to clear the Adriatic of piracy for ~10 years, could take 30 talents in sick l00t bois)
- AMBER!!!!1!11one (Potential colony at Venice, potential luxury trade route)
- Badmouth Syracuse with our allies (-10 talents, +might learn new, more accurate ways to badmouth Syracuse)
A blunt, wealthy ex-navy guy
ANTIPATRIA:
- Try to get a defensive alliance with Metapontion against Taras (+possible defensive alliance with Metapontion against Taras)
- Go punch some barbarians (-51.3 talents in army upkeep, occupies 3K men for 4 months, up to 15 talents of ill-gotten gainz lol, -barb raiding, +some other barbs like us more)
- The AI doesn't know how to manage AE XD (-15 talents, possible coalition against Syracuse)
A just ex-navy guy that needs a couple remedial oratory lessons
EXORIA:
- Poke our tributaries and see what happens (possible +tribute and levies, could reveal plots against us)
- Begin diplo-annexing some barbs (Defensive alliance with some barbs, maybe some tributaries later)
- Spy network in some other barbs (Could undermine the other barbs or get a CB or something like that)
A young, strong, friendly guy with new ideas
We currently have 259 talents in the treasury and 135.8 net income
We have 9/10 trade routes
-----
I'd prefer to go Drakonia for Domestic - I like big harbors and I cannot lie - but I don't like their guy. As my second choice, I'd go Antipatria. We could use more people, Metic whining is loud and grating, and the dice gods did give us a direct command to make our religious stuff nicer. We're superstitious ancient types, we're definitely supposed to care about that, and we can afford it, so why not?
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
If we go Drakonia, AFAIK we'll kill the pirates but our guy's bluntness will piss someone off during the Venice expedition. I'm not too impressed with Anti's guy either. Exoria's guy, however, seems like the kind of guy I can get behind, and even though I'm not entirely convinced that their foriegn plan should be our first priority, I know their guy will get it done. The part where we ignore Syracuse as irrelevant is also definitely something I approve of.
As far as the tradition that it be an old guy, well, it's only twenty years old. Might as well kill that tradition now, it doesn't strike me as a positive one.
[X] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
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- Location
- Hell
[X] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
I think not. Always ensure that public infrastructure is in place before you begin to build over it. The city must be cleansed before you construct our grand temples or you insult the gods by burying them in muck and grime.
Part of the reason that Demos Drakonia ruled instead of Demos Exoria these past years was because the trade routes were deemed more profitable then subjegating the Dauni that still stand on our borders. With the Barbarian Office, that can change, as well as open up another trade route that brings in further gold into our coffers without an expensive Harbour expansion.
The further boost of another 200 Hoplites as well as resolving an existing Issue over land is not bad either.
[X] Xenoparakletor: Obander Eupraxis (Demos Antipatria)
I think not. Always ensure that public infrastructure is in place before you begin to build over it. The city must be cleansed before you construct our grand temples or you insult the gods by burying them in muck and grime.
Part of the reason that Demos Drakonia ruled instead of Demos Exoria these past years was because the trade routes were deemed more profitable then subjegating the Dauni that still stand on our borders. With the Barbarian Office, that can change, as well as open up another trade route that brings in further gold into our coffers without an expensive Harbour expansion.
The further boost of another 200 Hoplites as well as resolving an existing Issue over land is not bad either.
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
[x] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[x] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
[x] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
- Location
- United Kingdom
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
A little more thought, and it's got to be Demos Antipatria for the Proboulos. While I actually prefer the policy platforms of Demos Drakonia and Exoria the Augur roll makes the reconstruction of the Hill of the Marriage almost a necessity, although to be quite fair the general state of the city makes it almost a necessity. Also, we know we have problems with the current Metic system and that mainland Greece is about to be engulfed in war. If we want to take advantage of that period of time and attract immigrants displaced by the war (as I know many of you want to) we need to improve the system first.
The position of Xenoparakletor took a little longer to decide on. More trade and intelligence from Sicily with the Drakonia or essential work on our internal situation and direct neighbours with the Exoria?
Ultimately though I think the work of the Exoria is more urgent. With an extended period of war approaching it's critical that we know the state of our tributaries and the Epulian League and make absolutely sure there are no internal problems, no plots, no schemes in play against us. And if that leads to increased levies as well, all the better. I really can't stress how important I think this could be, if we're caught by surprise by an internal plot while our forces are at war it could be a disaster.
Next, Athens will surely move quickly to indirectly contain Taras to stop them providing any aid to Sparta, this can easily be done by providing monetary aid (and perhaps more) to the Messapii and forcing them into conflict with Taras, and this provides us with a considerable opportunity. If Taras and the Messapii turn on one another it gives us a period of time where we don't need to be as concerned about our southern border - especially if we can secure a defensive alliance with the Messapii - leaving us free to take a more proactive approach towards the threat to our north, the Dauni. Even if we should choose not to act against the Dauni we need to be sure they're not planning to turn their swords towards us should we have to send our troops abroad to war.
The opportunity exists here to truly cement Eretria's position as the local hegemon and create a foundation for any actions we wish to take further afield.
[X] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
A little more thought, and it's got to be Demos Antipatria for the Proboulos. While I actually prefer the policy platforms of Demos Drakonia and Exoria the Augur roll makes the reconstruction of the Hill of the Marriage almost a necessity, although to be quite fair the general state of the city makes it almost a necessity. Also, we know we have problems with the current Metic system and that mainland Greece is about to be engulfed in war. If we want to take advantage of that period of time and attract immigrants displaced by the war (as I know many of you want to) we need to improve the system first.
The position of Xenoparakletor took a little longer to decide on. More trade and intelligence from Sicily with the Drakonia or essential work on our internal situation and direct neighbours with the Exoria?
Ultimately though I think the work of the Exoria is more urgent. With an extended period of war approaching it's critical that we know the state of our tributaries and the Epulian League and make absolutely sure there are no internal problems, no plots, no schemes in play against us. And if that leads to increased levies as well, all the better. I really can't stress how important I think this could be, if we're caught by surprise by an internal plot while our forces are at war it could be a disaster.
Next, Athens will surely move quickly to indirectly contain Taras to stop them providing any aid to Sparta, this can easily be done by providing monetary aid (and perhaps more) to the Messapii and forcing them into conflict with Taras, and this provides us with a considerable opportunity. If Taras and the Messapii turn on one another it gives us a period of time where we don't need to be as concerned about our southern border - especially if we can secure a defensive alliance with the Messapii - leaving us free to take a more proactive approach towards the threat to our north, the Dauni. Even if we should choose not to act against the Dauni we need to be sure they're not planning to turn their swords towards us should we have to send our troops abroad to war.
The opportunity exists here to truly cement Eretria's position as the local hegemon and create a foundation for any actions we wish to take further afield.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
I'm pretty sure the Barbarian Office, or foreign Office, is the Xenoparakletor, your argument seems to want the Exorian as foreign officer, and the Drakonid as Proboulos to open up trade routes, is this a mistake or am I reading you wrong?
Also, I don't think we have any infrastructure around the Temples and Hills, so we wouldn't have to tear the ground up to lay it down later, so it should be safe to create these new temples without causing issues like your fear.
Damn it!Just grammar
Don't worry Artemis, soon we'll find you a boyfriend!
Eretira's Fleet must grow!
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Yes, it was founded as a colony of Korinthos.
PyroTechno
The Procrastination Pokemon
As the debate of the election continues, a newer member of the Ekklesia rises to speak. Though he is not well-known, it is the right of all with the requisite kleftes to speak.
"My friends, in my mind, our choice this day and for the next few years seems clear. Through our esteemed auguries, the gods have imparted a divine mandate, and of our choices for the office of Proboulos, the students of Antipater are those with the will to see it done. On the other hand, I must advocate for my dear friend, Mnemnon of Exoria.
"Have you not heard him speak? Even as the candidates of Drakon and Antipater are trapped in the past, the Stallion looks to the future! While they are concerned with the affairs of faraway Sicily, his inspirational plan of action is concerned with far greater immediate dangers, and opportunities, in our much more immediate neighbors. Truly I say that the affairs of Herodion were great, but if we seek only the next Herodion, and ignore all else, then all the rest of the world shall see weakness, and descend upon us. When, then, are we electing our Xenoparakletor for? The past, or the future?
"So says Pyrrhus, son of fair Eretria."
"My friends, in my mind, our choice this day and for the next few years seems clear. Through our esteemed auguries, the gods have imparted a divine mandate, and of our choices for the office of Proboulos, the students of Antipater are those with the will to see it done. On the other hand, I must advocate for my dear friend, Mnemnon of Exoria.
"Have you not heard him speak? Even as the candidates of Drakon and Antipater are trapped in the past, the Stallion looks to the future! While they are concerned with the affairs of faraway Sicily, his inspirational plan of action is concerned with far greater immediate dangers, and opportunities, in our much more immediate neighbors. Truly I say that the affairs of Herodion were great, but if we seek only the next Herodion, and ignore all else, then all the rest of the world shall see weakness, and descend upon us. When, then, are we electing our Xenoparakletor for? The past, or the future?
"So says Pyrrhus, son of fair Eretria."
- Location
- United States
[X] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
- Location
- Orlando, Florida
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
I'm pretty worried about what the Augurs' ritual showed. Even though, as a player, I don't believe the Greek Gods are real in this quest, our characters in-universe most certainly would be wary of displeasing them. Also, the Exoria foreign policy is the best way for us to shore up our home situation before trying to intervene abroad.
[X] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
I'm pretty worried about what the Augurs' ritual showed. Even though, as a player, I don't believe the Greek Gods are real in this quest, our characters in-universe most certainly would be wary of displeasing them. Also, the Exoria foreign policy is the best way for us to shore up our home situation before trying to intervene abroad.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Is there a reason that Barletos is not listed as a League member on the Allies and Allied Levies slide? Just an oversight or something else?
Also, the link to the map on page 1 is just giving me an error when I try to open it, looks like the bandwidth limit has been reached. You might need a different host for an image of that size.
- Location
- Toronto
[x] Proboulos: Theron Archippos (Demos Exoria)
[x] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
I think they have an amazing platform, and that sewer system is very much needed. It'll improve living standards, happiness, and make the city feel secure in its foreign policy.
[x] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
I think they have an amazing platform, and that sewer system is very much needed. It'll improve living standards, happiness, and make the city feel secure in its foreign policy.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
1. That is an error. I've fixed it and also changed the name of Allies and Allied Levies to Subjects and Subject levies.
2. I'm looking for an alternative image host. Can you let me know if this one works?
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
OOC: I just love how we're all saying "X of Eretria" while we're in Eretria. Must get really fucking confusing when the tenth Hector gets up and starts a speech with "I, Hector of Eretria,..." and the audience is like: which one are you?
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It works for me unlike the first one.
- Location
- United Kingdom
That works fine. I think we just reached imgbb's bandwidth limit, pretty big image and a lot of people looking at it so it's not that surprising I suppose.
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
OOC: I don't disagree but I think the barbaroi only got us since they managed to lure out out into the hills where they could ambush us. I don't think the barbaroi forces can take us in a straight battle personally. Also, having Metapontoin in a defensive alliance puts Taras in a bind. Even if Metapontoin doesn't sally forth to attack them, the mere threat forces Taras to leave forces at home and makes it less likely that they'll embark on a foreign adventure imo.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
OOC: In reality the advised way to do it is to introduce yourself as the son of so and so and so. All the named characters up for election have the naming structure [Personal Name] [Father's Name]. Perikles would have been Perikles Xanthippos, as an example.
Okay, cool. I'll let a few other people confirm and then use it as the basemap. It seems like a better hosting server with built in zoom, which is really needed for the full map.
Yeah, it's fair enough.