I guess the important part was 'following virtues'. Think (Spanish) inquisition and witch trials.

Yes and no. People are often a mess of contradictions, but Lucan appears to at least believe that he's been acting justly and there's too much at stake here to simply assume self-delusion on his part. Especially when that Angel we talked to was very recently summoned.

We need more info.
 
But the Deva has already killed mages for nothing more than potential future crimes, so there must be some truth to it.

Besides we happen to know his mission from the Father OOC and letting faith-independant mage organisations stand can't really be part of his long-term plans.

He was either lying here, or he more deluded than expected?
  1. Yes, but the potential future crimes are for those he judged untrustworthy and wicked. Keep in mind he is supernaturally persuasive. It's posibile he just recruited in one way or another every mage he did not consider a ticking time bomb
  2. Also true, but that could be a charge Lucan himself is willing to pass on to the next Chosen over decades or centuries
 
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So basically what we are doing?

There's a reason that Viserys finds Lucan so distasteful beyond the simple Faith issue, I'm beginning to realise. The two are frighteningly similar.

Outline of a plan below.

[X] Divining Preparations
-[X] Approach one of Lucan's mages as Dywen, in the context of one seeking clarity after your conversation with the man. The semblance of Dywen can speak passionately, but is also not one given to rash thought. As rumours, as is often the case, appear to have been false, we would like to know more of the man who brought together a company of Godsworn to defend the Faithful. This is an entirely IC justification, loses us nothing, and can gain us a great deal. Not just knowledge, mind, but a reputation as one who accepts the possibility of self-error and seeks to rectify it. It also most likely puts us up against a lower level non social spec caster who we can bulldozer with Viserys bonkers socials.
--[X] Ask about Lucan and his company, how they were brought together, what they believe. Don't push here, but be tactful with our information gathering. Standard stuff, but can be done through the lens of faith quite easily.
--[X] The main thrust of this vote is to acquire clarity on who and what Lucan really is as a person. We need this information to plan around his moves.
-[X] Before the break finishes, be sure to talk to Kyle about Lucan's proposal.
 
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As a note here Viserys is reasonably certain that all other things being equal Kyle will vote for the proposal since the Tyrells have more than enough friendly septons to keep a good grip on Faith-sponsored crafters in the Reach.

Do you want to persuade him otherwise?

What are Kyle's opinions on a radical Faith theocracy?
 
We have far too few of the latter, and we turn them alive as soon as possible.

I'd say we are very anti-undead.

When you're dealing with creatures powered by a plane which is literally the hungry, screaming void of entropy...you kinda want to stop them being reliant on that power source. It's really not good for PR. Or sanity.
 
When you're dealing with creatures powered by a plane which is literally the hungry, screaming void of entropy...you kinda want to stop them being reliant on that power source. It's really not good for PR. Or sanity.

To be fair you do have a research branch to make necromancy safer. Wyla was getting pretty close to being at peace with herself and the world at the end and she was always rational.
 
You know, Lucan actually seems like a reasonable enough dude, except for all that unwavering faith in a moribund pantheon of simpleton gods and the mission to kill us.

It's almost a shame that we're going to have to shank him.
 
In lieu of the fact that most discussion happening right now is short-term goal oriented, I will post my on-going commentary I have going with DP here, but I won't be doing much posting for a little while. Combination of sickness and distraction.

As given in the last example, you show that Viserys is supreme at achieving recognition in every manner but that which it matters, though it makes sense. At least in this case it's not simply being absorbed in the rumors of Lucan so much as basically trying to make sure he's publicly keeping his story straight so anyone watching would catch the slightest contradiction.

In that matter we've actually accomplished something--Dywen hasn't spoken yet, and we've traded words with Lucan. From our perspective, we didn't get thrashed because Lucan wasn't treating us like an opponent, more like a prop. From everyone else's, no one has the diplo-chops to even stand in the same hemisphere as Lucan and 'Dywen', so it almost looked like the crowd was shying away any one moment the two were paying attention to each other. Given Lucan was more focused on the crowd though and not us, I doubt it came to his attention either, which could be considered another 'win'.

As for Lucan's first motion, Viserys could either coach Pycelle, Brynden and indirectly Baelish to counter Lucan after all is said and done, though this only drives a wedge between Lannister and the Faith (I have basically stopped treating House Baratheon as a coherent political entity at this stage, that might change if Stannis lands on the Small Council and remains there, but for now Robert is basically a figurehead).

Viserys could reveal himself to at least two of the major factions and start countering votes directly in a more obvious play of concessions pledged when things shake out--Kyle is obvious angling for back scratching bargains, but Ollidor would need some very carefully couched words. Luckily even for a "Lannister" Septon, he's no loyalist and Viserys has actually gone to great pains to keep his operations and actions in Westeros quiet, scalpel-like in precision and as bloodless as possible, and our overall grand strategy leans heavily towards intimidation, reconciliation or alliance brokering.

Basically averting another Rebellion-scale conflict. Deciding how much information to give him would be a trick, but Tywin's position doesn't look strong right now and we are as well positioned as we genuinely could be at this point that any pledge we make with at least two credible examples of having kept our word means rather than being dismissed out of hand, people basically have to take us seriously because the alternative is making us consider the use of force and acts of terror instead.

That's where our biggest strength in these situations with Westeros happens to be. In Essos much of maneuvers has been either convincing the saner players that it is in their best interests to cooperate with us, and just killing the rest directly or indirectly.

In Westeros even the people we don't want to keep around will probably linger into our regime. It is impossible to purge them all, because no one is objectionable enough like Essosi Magisters are to warrant it in the eyes of those we consider desirable, and thus do not want to alienate outright.

When we can convince someone that doing something is in their best interests and just not to fight us, basically arguing them into a corner or handing them enough rope to hang themselves with--any situation that involves letting the opponent in social combat do most of the work for us by steadily knocking out pillars from underneath them, that is when we see our greatest success.

If there's one thing fascinating about your quest that I can comment on it is that just speaking prettily, bribery, domineering or any other display of raw magnetism is basically worthless at the scale we are operating on. In the arena at the higher end there is always someone just as charismatic who will force you to think on your feet, so you have basically trained an entire thread of people into never relying on big numbers to do the work for them, and yet, I will point out, at times we rarely ever have much background information on how a character will react, what they value, what their motives are, that while they can spin out blatant lies and untruths about our position as it suits them, we are forced to ruthlessly and coldly deconstruct their position from the ground up, relying on every trick in the book and conspiring to lead them to failure, because we are a victim of our own momentum and reputation.

By now no one who we care about convincing of anything believes Viserys is a capricious tyrant like his father--we have a great many examples of publics works, systems and thriving and economically booming population centers that have gone from struggling under a stifling slave embargo (our doing) to having millions of marks flowing through their economy month to month. Nor can anyone say that Viserys is singularly driven by vengeance (except those people who think we're some kind of mastermind waiting for just the right moment to reveal our evil master plan to visit untold horror on everyone who ever hounded us, chased us or slighted us, but these are hardly people we could hope to prove anything to).

Meaning that all of our enemies have to be basically a mirror of Viserys in some respects--driven by a Great Purpose, using the truth as a blade and a shield all at once, and avoiding telling lies and instead making use of every conversational feint or branch to give another example of why cooperation is the best.

Much like Viserys, during the rare opportunity where Lucan actually says something that I can agree with, I almost want to reach out and join forces with him, before the sinking realization that just by his very actions he's forcing the confrontation and conflict that he's saying he will avoid, because the people will not accept the idiotic cavalcade of morons currently leading them when Lucan is "so much better". And rather than go quietly into the night and give up their power much like Lucan hopes they will do if pressed, they will instead lash out like a cornered animal.

When I think of a possible conversation between Lucan and Viserys, this scene comes to mind, if not the total substance of it:

 
In lieu of the fact that most discussion happening right now is short-term goal oriented, I will post my on-going commentary I have going with DP here, but I won't be doing much posting for a little while. Combination of sickness and distraction.
Get well soon, dude.

I think my office is finally free of whatever crud has been circulating among the cubes for months now. Of course, that just means that someone's nasty little kid will probably bring something entirely new home from daycare for their parent to pass on to the rest of us in another seemingly never ending cycle of disease and misery.

EDIT: And now that I've said it, I'll probably be the first one infected by Typhoid Cube Drone #23.
 
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@Snowfire What do you think of having Viserys use Brain Spider to examine the thoughts of Conclave attendees, including any of Lucan's mages we can find? All we really need to do is make sure the spell is cast while out of view of anyone who could notice it. Once it's active, Mind Blank will prevent anyone from being able to see us using it. Is that how it works, @DragonParadox, or would someone with Detect Magic still be able to see the spell's aura affecting our targets?
 
@Snowfire What do you think of having Viserys use Brain Spider to examine the thoughts of Conclave attendees, including any of Lucan's mages we can find? All we really need to do is make sure the spell is cast while out of view of anyone who could notice it. Once it's active, Mind Blank will prevent anyone from being able to see us using it. Is that how it works, @DragonParadox, or would someone with Detect Magic still be able to see the spell's aura affecting our targets?

You are still acting on them so they would get a brief divination aura whenever you looked into their mind. Detect magic could see that.
 
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