Not in any position to complain = building up resentment. We want them to be willing citizens of our empire, not disgruntled to-be-terrorists.

"How dare they give away our ancestral territory we weren't using and might never have been using to a multispecies island nation with a need to expand after we lost an extreme amount of our people? Look, it's being used by that ancient culture to send their more adventurous individuals out to be our neighbors and thanks to their port goods are coming in cheaper and faster to our devastated city! It's horrific!"
 
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[X] Partial Annexation
[X] Naval Base
[X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies

If 20 years aren't enough to convince them to stay, then the Protectorate option wouldn't have gotten them to change their minds either.

We have a decent chance of fully integrating an inherently magical species, with crystallomancers and crystal unicorns. Why aim lower?

As for the Crystal Heart, I'm not particularly interested in studying it, so we may as well get a bit more goodwill for leaving it in their care. If they fully integrate, our joint Empire effectively own it anyways.
 
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Here's what our option was as of turn 18:



Now, what's a cog, you may ask? For that we need to go all the way back to Turn 3.



Note that this was before we invented cannons. And we can't retrofit them either.



Our ships are hilariously out of date, and we also barely have enough to defend what we have.



Are you seriously suggesting that the Crystal Ponies, if given the choice, won't request that we help them rebuild? The "protectorate" option makes them a state government to our federal government, it doesn't prevent us from providing aid nor telling them that there are certain rules they have to follow.
You do realize that the reason we don't make new ships is because we have other things to do and because the cogs are more than enough. We advanced much faster than anyone else because of a mistake in time scale.

As for the help yes they will ask but we have no control over how it is used. We are obligated to send help but we can't decide how it is used.
 
[ ] Partial Annexation:

It may very well be 'kicking the decision down the line', but we and the Crystal Ponies barely even know each other at this point. Let's give them a chance to settle in, be a part of our Empire for a while, then put it to a vote. The Protectorate option is basically this, but we give them slightly more freedom and they can grow closer ties or cut them more or less as the please. The benefit to this is that, for now at least, everyone gets what they want.

[ ] Naval Base:

We came to this nation as liberators, not conquerors, and it would disingenuous in the extreme to start carving up territory to give to our allies. This land belongs to the Crystal Ponies until such a time passes that they decide otherwise.

[ ] Joint Custody:

So long as they're cool with it, this is fine.
You forgot the x!
and crystal unicorns

I think they're only wingless hornless crystal ponies. @Questor ?
Adhoc vote count started by Pittauro on May 11, 2019 at 4:22 PM, finished with 122 posts and 42 votes.
 
Either one would work.

Thanks, I edited it at the end.

Why are you all going for the protectorate. With that option we lose alot of the ablity to actually change things. They maintain their autonomy which means t can't repair the damage to the land

Moreover Protectorate wouldn't give us anything because their taxes would be 0 or close (apart from haveing more money than we already need) while forcing us to defend them from external threats.

Also Protectorate wouldn't let us put our daughter Gleaming Perl as governor of the Crystal Empire right???
 
[X] Protectorate
[X] Neighponese Colonization
[X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies


Protectorate because we keep them in the empire, we protect them with military and since we keep a part of taxes the more we help them improve their economy we also gain more money. We also stop nobility to ruin their people even more (do we have a lot of information about our nobles? I don't remember). Also we can increase private investments in crystal empire development while we get benefits (taxes) and we can also help them rebuild ourselves to increase our reputation further. They become our allies while also be our subjects.

Colonization because we improve our relations with neighpon, it's land the ponies can't use anyway (not enough population) and we can trade on land with neighpon via crystal empire (and since they are OUR protectorate we can probably trade without trade taxes) also we make neighpon really invested in protecting CE from sea so we can free actions by not investing in a new fleet for now.

Care because they will let us do almost anything and we keep their sacred relic theirs. We show them that we trust them with it, that we don't want power but we just want to protect them and sure, we will get some advantages but we just saved their entire civilization and a lot of our soldiers just died liberating them.
 
Protectorate because we keep them in the empire, we protect them with military and since we keep a part of taxes the more we help them improve their economy we also gain more money. We also stop nobility to ruin their people even more (do we have a lot of information about our nobles? I don't remember). Also we can increase private investments in crystal empire development while we get benefits (taxes) and we can also help them rebuild ourselves to increase our reputation further. They become our allies while also be our subjects.
This option doesn't allow us to improve things in the area because the CP are in charge. They are the ones that request help but we can't decide what to do with the aid and we can't deny them the aid.
 
[X] Partial Annexation: One of the compromises that was formed and discussed at the meeting itself. The Crystal Empire will be annexed by Gryphus, but not necessarily in perpetuity. In 20 years, a referendum will be held amongst the residents of the Crystal Empire to determine whether they wish to remain subjects of the Empire, or become their own sovereign state. Both the Crystal Ponies and the Griffons of the Empire are likely to be content with this...for the foreseeable future. Elva warns you that this plan is basically "kicking the can down the road" and delaying a decision that it might be better to make now. While she won't be there to witness it, she can easily foresee such a vote being a dramatic and contentious thing that may divide the Crystal Ponies and lead to political conflict. Still, it may be the best way to ensure everyone gets what they want, even if temporarily.

[X] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.

[X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
 
[X] Protectorate:
[X] Naval Base:
[X] Joint Custody:

There's nothing to say that we can't change their attitude over time for a more seamless integration, but for the moment I believe we need to convince them that they can a) stand on their own hooves and b) not feel like we're trying to force a decision.

Now go Crystal Dominion, play the music of your Shiny Mounties:

 
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This option doesn't allow us to improve things in the area because the CP are in charge. They are the ones that request help but we can't decide what to do with the aid and we can't deny them the aid.
I'm voting for partial annexation, but this is not really something to be concerned about. They will have the ability to turn down aid, but why would they want to?

What they will do is prevent our culture from crossing over with theirs, and they will thus be able to remain mostly independent culturally and socially. If you want to graduate the Crystal Empire into a full-fledged allied nation, the Protectorate is the best way to let them be separate from us without it being a ridiculous money sink like Full Independence would be. I want to integrate them, and Partial Annexation is the best way to show them the benefits of what integration will provide without making them overly resentful of their loss of autonomy.
 
You do realize that the reason we don't make new ships is because we have other things to do and because the cogs are more than enough. We advanced much faster than anyone else because of a mistake in time scale.

As for the help yes they will ask but we have no control over how it is used. We are obligated to send help but we can't decide how it is used.

Yes, we did have other things to do. But now we don't, because the defense pact obligates us to be ready to defend them if it's needed. And right now, with a navy that's barely adequate at defending our own borders which hasn't seen any major design changes in 15 years of tech growth, we are not capable of doing that. Any threat that's big enough that Neighpon, with their larger and more advanced navy, would seriously need our help is one that would crush us. We need to be preparing before threats start showing up, not getting complacent and assuming that Big Brother will keep us safe without us making any effort to reciprocate.

As for the help, I don't see a major downside in losing the ability to directly tell them what to do. They aren't stupid, they know that it's important to build up their infrastructure and they know they can ask us what we think they should do.

Moreover Protectorate wouldn't give us anything because their taxes would be 0 or close (apart from haveing more money than we already need) while forcing us to defend them from external threats.

The protectorate option specifically says we're getting some of their tax revenue. If that's close to 0, it won't magically be better because we're governing them directly. The difference between protectorate and partial annexation is that protectorate lets them self-govern which gives boosts to morale/approval and a reduced likelihood that they get taken advantage of by anyone unscrupulous in our leadership structure, while partial annexation means we decide what they're doing directly for potentially higher efficiency in rebuilding since we don't need to wait for their leaders to gain experience and might make it easier to integrate them later on, assuming we do a good job.
 
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Mayve they where killed or the horns sawed off to fit into the helmets?

Actually I did look this up in Show canon, there are very very few Crystal Unicorns and Pegasi and the few that do exist were in like crystal form for some reason, like Rarity or Twilight. It could just be a thing that Crystal ponies are a subset of ponies like Earth, Pegasus, or Unicorn, and simply were a kingdom that never joined Equestria proper, the fourth tribe that never joined so to speak.
 
I'm voting for partial annexation, but this is not really something to be concerned about. They will have the ability to turn down aid, but why would they want to?

What they will do is prevent our culture from crossing over with theirs, and they will be able to remain mostly independent. If you want to graduate the Crystal Empire into a full-fledged allied nation, the Protectorate is the best way to let them be separate from us without it being a ridiculous money sink like Full Independence would be. I want to integrate them, and Partial Annexation is the best way to show them the benefits of what integration will provide without making them overly resentful of their loss of autonomy.
They decide what the aid is used for we can not demand that they use how we want. We don't have the authority to do that with the protectorate action. A protectorate means we get some tax which is nothing because they have nothing and will stay like that for a long time and we control their foreign policy. They control everything else inside their lands which means they decided what is worked on and since we aren't in control that is likely to come down to random dice rolls. A protectorate really limits our ablity to influence and change them to fit in better.
 
[x] Full Independence:
[x] Protectorate:

[x] Naval Base:

[x] In the care of the Crystal Ponies:
 
[X] Partial Annexation
[X] Naval Base
[X] Joint Custody

@ExNihilo your vote says you've chosen both []Full Independence and []Protectorate. You might want to get discard one as you cant choose both.
 
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The issue with Full Annexation is that the Crystal Ponies just got out underneath a tyrant, we need to give them some time and little space to deal with that trauma before we broach the idea of them being a part of the Empire permanently. I know that in many cases it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission, and that it would ultimately be for their own good... but would they recognize that? Some of them, maybe, perhaps even most of them if we're lucky, but there'd always be that minority that whispers we're no better than Sombra, we just had less magic and a bigger army. I want to nip this in the bud now before it becomes a problem later, and let them decide for themselves what they want to do, after we give them some support and help them rebuild of course. Is it more annoying and complicated this way? Undoubtedly, but that doesn't make it any less necessary. Imagine what might have happened if we had strong-armed the other provinces into joining our Empire instead of using diplomacy (painful as it may have been at times), would we be anywhere near as culturally united as we are now?

The issue with Full Independence is that it makes nobody happy. The Crystal Ponies both want and need our support right now, Full Independence would see us abandoning them in their time of need to let them figure shit out for themselves. And I've pointed out several times already just why that's such a terrible, callous idea. We can give the Crystal Ponies greater support and greater aid if we make them a part of our Empire, even if only temporarily. And in the mean time hitching their government to our infrastructure until it can stand on it's own keeps their government from collapsing into corruption and anarchy. Furthermore, it would make our own Citizens grossly unhappy, and for good reason. They fought and they died, and they suffered to save the Crystal Ponies, on our orders no less. Then we took these ponies into our nation at their expense, and encouraged our citizens to welcome them into their homes out of love and compassion. New family units are already forming because of this. By this point our people probably see the Winter War as an extension of the Reunification War, rescuing a beleaguered populace from a terrifying tyrant, and welcoming them into the warm bosom of the Empire of Gryphus. Normally this wouldn't be the case... but, well, we succeeded really well with integrating the Diamond Dogs, and our people don't see this situation as being any different.

So yeah, I'm advocating for a careful, measured approach, because doing this is well worth doing it right. We owe it to the survivors... on both sides of the war, and we owe it to all the people that lost their lives so that we can even have this option in the first place.
 
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Yes, we did have other things to do. But now we don't, because the defense pact obligates us to be ready to defend them if it's needed. And right now, with a navy that's barely adequate at defending our own borders which hasn't seen any major design changes in 15 years of tech growth, we are not capable of doing that. Any threat that's big enough that Neighpon, with their larger and more advanced navy, would seriously need our help is one that would crush us. We need to be preparing before threats start showing up, not getting complacent and assuming that Big Brother will keep us safe without us making any effort to reciprocate.

As for the help, I don't see a major downside in losing the ability to directly tell them what to do. They aren't stupid, they know that it's important to build up their infrastructure and they know they can ask us what we think they should do.



The protectorate option specifically says we're getting some of their tax revenue. If that's close to 0, it won't magically be better because we're governing them directly. The difference between protectorate and partial annexation is that protectorate lets them self-govern which gives boosts to morale/approval and a reduced likelihood that they get taken advantage of by anyone unscrupulous in our leadership structure, while partial annexation means we decide what they're doing directly for potentially higher efficiency in rebuilding since we don't need to wait for their leaders to gain experience and might make it easier to integrate them later on, assuming we do a good job.
We do still have more important things to do. Then to make more ships and increase the upkeep of our expensive military. We still have several upgrades and economic development actions and research we have to do. As long as we have the Neighpon Navy watching our back we are fine on holding off until we get stronger.

And these are not players their actions are decided by dice rolls and without control we have no choice but to go for whatever they choose instead of doing what would be best for intergrating them in the long run.
 
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[X] Partial Annexation
[X] Naval Base
[X] Joint Custody
We can eventually just go all in on diplomacy/stewardship/whatever options for them to join us.
 
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