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Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest

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Adhoc vote count started by Raptor580 on May 11, 2019 at 3:27 PM, finished with 92 posts and 25 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Raptor580 on May 11, 2019 at 4:54 PM, finished with 137 posts and 49 votes.
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Keani said:
Um, lolwut, partial annexation does right means we would be training crystal pony governers and admins to run things, it should mean teaching them to lead and givignthem experience with the safety wheels on, if they are strifing that hard to stay away from us we're fucking up but can carve a chunk of land for the independance movement to take.

Like, this is a full generation to build our goodwill to the maximum, fix shit, and give them a choice.

Like, you seem to be insinuating that partial annexation has us treating them as lesser until referendum when the whole point is that we're treating them explicitly not as lessers and building them up as equals.

So yeah, that means we're building them an economy nondependant on gryphus, that means we're training crystal admins, that means we're preparing for cutting a deal with a minor but significant independance movement.

If we are doing shit right every problem you just stated doesntexist. If we want to sit and twiddle our thumbs yeah, there's going to be problems. If we're going to treat people as lessers, as second classes, yeah there's going to e problems. If we refuse any and all forms of negotiation and compromise yeah, theres gonna be some fucking problems. That's true no matter what you do.

Now if that's what people think the only viable way to interact is, trying as hard as we can to not do things right than maybe we should aschew involvement in the situation sicne everythign we do if that's our attitude is going to build bad will like we're the goddamn french.

If we do things right however we'll have mollified independence movements, we'll have trained the crystal ponies in needed fields of craft and admuinistration, we'll have done some goddamn diplomacy to help work out their strifingbefore it comes to issues, we'll be deasling with issues before they blow up in our faces because we'll actually be trying.

The point of partial annexation is that it gives us AND them the greatest oppourtunity and potential for a good ending but it also requires us to work, to try, to go in and get ourhands dirty actually doing shit rather than sitting on our asses.

it takes effort goddamit, the whole point is that it takes effort.

You think any of those issues don't exist with protectorate status? If they decide to join and have independance movies we can't mollify or negotiate with we get that same strife except they'll have legitimate greivances we can't handle. They have no governance capacity and we wont be sitting there ready to help them grow it and take the burdan until they can do it themselves.


Partial annexation isn't "going all in then pushing for a referendum" It's setting terms reliant on the referendum a generation in advance and spending that time working through issues and preparing for referendum one way or another so that whatever happens is the best for everybody. There is no being blindsided by this, there will be an entire generation for the crystal ponies and us to work through and decide this shit.
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Main thing being that we are feudal monarchy run by nobility, wich means that not even common gryphus or diamond dogs gets to rule .
Any form of annexation, even partial one means that nobility will be sent to run things in Crystal city 20 years till referendum, that is the difference between annexation and protectorate.
Having some rights to governance (protectorate ) means having crystal pony in charge with gryphus overseeing him.
 
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Well then we are going to need to budget in an expansion of the the Navy soon. With only the Naval base the Neighpon are going to need to go farther away and that means we can't have them concentrated in our area. We also are going to need the larger navy in case those new colonies get attacked because we are going to need to transport our own forces. People seem to be under the impression that the Neighpon didn't send a lot of help. The thing you are all forgetting is that we have orders of magnitude more people and resources they sent most of their forces to this fight.
 
[X] Protectorate
[X] Naval Base
[X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies

Adventwolf said:
Well then we are going to need to budget in an expansion of the the Navy soon. With only the Naval base the Neighpon are going to need to go farther away and that means we can't have them concentrated in our area. We also are going to need the larger navy in case those new colonies get attacked because we are going to need to transport our own forces. People seem to be under the impression that the Neighpon didn't send a lot of help. The thing you are all forgetting is that we have orders of magnitude more people and resources they sent most of their forces to this fight.
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Additionally, we made a defense pact with them before building any sort of fleet, so right now we can't sail to defend their homeland should it be needed. Which the defense pact obligates us to do.
 
Liking the discussion, and don't mean to impose or attack in anyway.

I personally am strongly against the colonization. Just because they cannot use it now is not a reason to give away land that isn't ours to give. In this war we have been heroes, please don't turn us into venal opportunists in the eyes of history.

[X] Partial Annexation
[X] Naval Base
[X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies

Partial annexation leaves the decision ultimately with the crystal ponies, with out leaving them to die alone, but also letting us help directly and more effectively.

And the crystal heart is unbelievably important to their culture, it would be like claiming partial ownership of the True Cross, regardless of the benefits such an action could bring.

The ruthlessly pragmatic and self concerned part me wants partial annexation, with propaganda campaigns to ensure for annexation in time without ill will, and joint ownership to take full advantage of a magical artifact without turning an entire population hostile, with colonization to make the most of a more powerful ally, but I am a being of more than just cold logic.
 
banjo2E said:
[X] Protectorate
[X] Naval Base
[X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies



Additionally, we made a defense pact with them before building any sort of fleet, so right now we can't sail to defend their homeland should it be needed. Which the defense pact obligates us to do.
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What are you talking about we do have a navy. Together our navies ensure complete control of the area we are in. But if they have to go to a new area we lose that advantage and we need to budget a new expansion to the Navy to compensate.
 
[X] Protectorate
[X] Naval Base
[X] Joint Custody

I am going with protectorate for a few reasons. One we aren't conquerors, we never wanted to straight conquer the Crystal Empire, we were there to liberate it. I see NO reason for us to annex it besides imperial ambition. Also partial annexation contains one word I fear in this scenario... "Referendum". May I remind everyone that we are NOT a democratic republic, there is no House of Commons we are a monarchical feudalistic system which seems in emergencies has an elective monarchy system on issues of succession. We also don't have any historical example of a democracy to draw inspiration from like Greece or Roman Republic. So a referendum of the "people" not only undercuts the nobles and aristocrats of the Crysal Empire but also ourselves an Neighpon

Garrick: Okay there will be a referendum of the Crystal people in 20 year on independence

Crystal nobles: Wait my vote is worth as much as the miners in the mine I employ?! How is this fair!
Crystal commoners: What's this vote now, wait WE get to decide out fate. VIVA LE REVOLUTION!
Griffons: Wait... Why do CRYSTAL ponies get to decide who governs them. Actually this whole democracy idea sounds interesting.
Neighponese Qilin named Mao: Koryu must fall.
Gawain upon coronation: DAMMIT DAD!

<One revolution later>

Questor: Okay everyone, you need to roll and come up with your re-election plans to retake the House of Commons and become Chancellor of the Gryphus Republic... Oh and remember you can't expand thanks to your initiative failing in the House of Lords last year so you are blocked 6 options this year.
 
[X] Protectorate: Aid will be provided on the condition of the Crystal Empire becoming a Protectorate of Gryphus. While the Crystal Ponies will be allowed a degree of autonomy over their own affairs, they will be considered a part of the Empire. A portion of their tax revenue will be paid to you, and they will be protected from outside aggression by the might of the Imperial Military. The vast majority of Crystal Ponies would be content with this, not believing themselves capable of standing on their own hooves so soon after their liberation from Sombra, and seeing the assistance gained as being well worth the price of some of their autonomy. And while some of the particularly ambitious members of your nobility may grumble a bit, most of your own people will likely see this arrangement as beneficial. Though it should be noted that the attitudes of the Crystal Ponies may change with time, either seeking independence or further integration into the Empire itself. Something to think about at any rate.

[X] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.

[X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
 
Why are you all going for the protectorate. With that option we lose alot of the ablity to actually change things. They maintain their autonomy which means t can't repair the damage to the land
 
Firebringer2077 said:
[X] Protectorate
[X] Naval Base
[X] Joint Custody

I am going with protectorate for a few reasons. One we aren't conquerors, we never wanted to straight conquer the Crystal Empire, we were there to liberate it. I see NO reason for us to annex it besides imperial ambition. Also partial annexation contains one word I fear in this scenario... "Referendum". May I remind everyone that we are NOT a democratic republic, there is no House of Commons we are a monarchical feudalistic system which seems in emergencies has an elective monarchy system on issues of succession. We also don't have any historical example of a democracy to draw inspiration from like Greece or Roman Republic. So a referendum of the "people" not only undercuts the nobles and aristocrats of the Crysal Empire but also ourselves an Neighpon

Garrick: Okay there will be a referendum of the Crystal people in 20 year on independence

Crystal nobles: Wait my vote is worth as much as the miners in the mine I employ?! How is this fair!
Crystal commoners: What's this vote now, wait WE get to decide out fate. VIVA LE REVOLUTION!
Griffons: Wait... Why do CRYSTAL ponies get to decide who governs them. Actually this whole democracy idea sounds interesting.
Neighponese Qilin named Mao: Koryu must fall.
Gawain upon coronation: DAMMIT DAD!

<One revolution later>

Questor: Okay everyone, you need to roll and come up with your re-election plans to retake the House of Commons and become Chancellor of the Gryphus Republic... Oh and remember you can't expand thanks to your initiative failing in the House of Lords last year so you are blocked 6 options this year.
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My little Griffin - Feudalism is magic.
 
Adventwolf said:
What are you talking about we do have a navy. Together our navies ensure complete control of the area we are in. But if they have to go to a new area we lose that advantage and we need to budget a new expansion to the Navy to compensate.
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Here's what our option was as of turn 18:

Questor said:
[ ] We are the Imperial Navy!: First Brochard, then Sombra. Your people have fought two great threats to a standstill in the air and on the ground...but you've yet to face an enemy upon the sea. Your current fleet of ships, while sufficient for patrolling your waters, is woefully inadequate for the task of projecting power beyond your own shores. The Neighponese have a navy of over a hundred ships for crying out loud! You could rely upon your Eastern ally to protect you on the seas...but wouldn't it be better to stand on your own? Start construction on a fleet of ships worthy of the Imperial Banner. Time: Two Years. Cost: 800. Reward: +20 Warships (Cogs) added to Imperial Navy.
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Now, what's a cog, you may ask? For that we need to go all the way back to Turn 3.

Questor said:
As throngs of citizens gathered on the shore cheer the achievement of a national milestone, the first vessels of the Griffonian navy launch from their newly-constructed dockyards to begin their sea-trials. Crafted of hardened and seasoned timber by the finest carpenters and shipwrights in your kingdom, the ten sailing ships are purpose-built for war. And none too soon, as your rival of Aquileia has also completed their own fleet of ships which even now sails just outside your territorial waters, a show of force in a time of great tensions. Now you have a means of defense against them. More importantly, now you have an actual shipbuilding infrastructure, which will make it much easier to construct additional vessels in the future. Navy established, military dockyards constructed, 10 ships (cogs) added to military forces
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Note that this was before we invented cannons. And we can't retrofit them either.

Questor said:
[ ] Cannon Ships: Archimedes' new cannons are much more powerful than the old bolt-throwers, if more volatile and expensive. Unfortunately, small scale tests have shown that your current Cog designs are not suited for the weight of the new weapons, or the force of their recoil. You'll need to design a new class of ship from the ground up to accommodate these new weapons. Cost: 100. Reward: New Ship Class Designed.
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Our ships are hilariously out of date, and we also barely have enough to defend what we have.

Adventwolf said:
Why are you all going for the protectorate. With that option we lose alot of the ablity to actually change things. They maintain their autonomy which means t can't repair the damage to the land
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Are you seriously suggesting that the Crystal Ponies, if given the choice, won't request that we help them rebuild? The "protectorate" option makes them a state government to our federal government, it doesn't prevent us from providing aid nor telling them that there are certain rules they have to follow.
 
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