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Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest

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RandomLurker said:
I'm for full annexation because, honestly? Fuck 'em. The crystal ponies have free will entirely because of Griffin blood and magnanimity, and they still aren't in a position to deny us. Also, literally no one agrees with me, and I don't care between protectorate or partial annexation, so why not vote for what I want? Naval base for the Neighpon so we don't tick anyone off, and because they're defending the seas while our navy is weak. The Crystal Heart can belong to the ponies, so we don't step too far with them.
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The Crystal ponies' land resources and access to their population for free trade are enormous boons to our economy, but we don't need to have sole control of their internal affairs for that. Nations like the U.S. can become quite powerful on a federal level even when the individual states are left to conduct most of their own affairs. The benefit of a unified government is that it allows for free trade and free movement of labor within the nation as well as a unified regulatory structure (aka reducing soft barriers to trade). But we don't need to dictate how the crystal ponies choose their governors or whatever to get those benefits.

Adventwolf said:
We are not at industrial level yet. And again if we are the only reason we are at our current level is because the QM really misjudged the level of advancement. And the taller buildings are not going fix anything because it is not what the issue is. They need to expand to build more resources and land so their people are not packed into a smaller area that only increases the risk of outbreaks.
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They haven't requested land for resources, they have requested land for "living space" which they do not actually need. Also, people being packed together increases risk of outbreaks, but it also increases access to healthcare. They will not be worse off than us. Even we, who have less land, are still at risk of outbreaks. Neither country has vaccines or antibiotics.
 
I'll start by saying I actually didn't expect the ponies to be this.. let's say "concerned" about their independence, though it actually makes sense when I really think about it.

They might very well join us of their own free will in the future, but right now it would be pretty much forcing them to, and that would make it a bitter pill to swallow, no matter how we treat them.

Also, l think it cheapens our aid if we actually take advantage of them in their moment of need.

That said:


[ ] Full Independence:

That's crazy, and I think everyone agrees. While I don't want to take advantage of them we DID fight and bled for them. We DESERVE a small reward, and (more shrewdly) we need something to keep our people happy.

[ ] Protectorate:

Reasonable. Taxes, the new market for our products and whatever research/discovery/development happens here will easily repay whatever we spend to aid them in the future, and it's very likely they'll integrate themselves more in the future, when they'll actually have a chance to CHOOSE instead of being forced to.

I think history teaches that true positive change needs to be gradual, and a willing subject will always be better than an unwilling one. We just need to have patience.

[ ] Partial Annexation:

Another reasonable compromise, though I dislike the fixed deadline a bit. Not exactly against it, but I would prefer if they decided for themselves, without the pressure of a deadline.

[ ] Full Annexation:

I think this goes a bit too far, though it's still not as bad as giving them full independence. We don't NEED it, and we get enough to both feed our long term growth and keep our people happy with one of our compromises.

There is also the fact that the "bitterness" from having their freedom robbed from them a second time could, in the far future, once memory of Sombra's atrocities will have faded a bit, give birth to violent minorities and/or even terrorists!

Not very likely, I know,b still possible. Especially if, say, enemy changelings decide to use these minorities against us.



The Neighponese Reward

[ ] Victory is Reward Enough: it really isn't. We're trying to raise our relationship with them, and it's right AND normal to reward one's allies for their help in war. They'r currently our best allies and source of magical knowledge, we shouldn't snub them. Especially when they're not really asked my for that much with their backup request.

[ ] Naval Base: Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.

And I like it as well! Especially seen as right now our navy is a joke, and Neighpon will probably always maintain an advantage on us in regard to everything sea-related.

I can't wait to see how fast they copy our steamboats once we develop them :p

Really, it keeps everyone mostly happy and removes at least part of the burden of guarding the crystal empire from us. There is NO disadvantage compared to the "no reward" option



[ ] Neighponese Colonization:

..ok, they DID help us, and they didn't even ask for a reward...but they didn't HELP that much. Not in the war at least. Both us AND the ponies suffered a lot more, and I can understand their desire to not lose their lands the moment they actually got their freedom back.

[ ] Passing the Buck: (May only be chosen with Full Independence).

I am strongly against full independence, so this isn't really an option to me.


The Crystal Heart

[ ] In the care of the Crystal Ponies:

Not as bad as it sounds. It could make studying it slightly more difficult, but the goodwill we have (and that we would get from this choice) would ensure we could get their permission for pretty much anything we want to try short of hitting it with an oricalchum hammer. It would probably also raise their opinion of us a bit, and seen as I'm aiming for them WILLINGLY joining us in the future.. (same as I hope for the Yaks honestly)

Honestly they need it more than us, especially for the comfort it would give them.

[ ] Joint Custody:

I slightly prefer this option, and we even have a good argument to make with the crystal ponies: the emperor and his wife used it to save them! Who are they to say they can't study it if the heart itself considered them worthy?

Who knows, maybe one day we'll discover how to make (even inferior) copies of it. It would be very interesting to see how it interacts with the changelings...


[ ] Relocation to Gryphus: this is OBVIOUSLY a non option, unless we decide to completely lose all the goodwill we got until now. They'd never really forgive us, no matter what else we do for them


Reading the posts I think it's already clear what the votes will be like by the way :p
Timewinders said:
Neither country has vaccines or antibiotics.
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Not Yet...

Timewinders said:
just like Germany had enough land when Hitler said that they needed more lebensraum. It's just nationalists being nationalists, and
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Oh look, Godwins's law! :p




 
RandomLurker said:
I'm for full annexation because, honestly? Fuck 'em. The crystal ponies have free will entirely because of Griffin blood and magnanimity, and they still aren't in a position to deny us. Also, literally no one agrees with me, and I don't care between protectorate or partial annexation, so why not vote for what I want? Naval base for the Neighpon so we don't tick anyone off, and because they're defending the seas while our navy is weak. The Crystal Heart can belong to the ponies, so we don't step too far with them.
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Thr problem is that then ee'll be the proud owners of a population that majorly resents us while grimly accepting it in exchange for our aid. That's breeding grounds for terrorists, independence movements, etc.

If we instead do the Partial annex, we get the same benefits as full annex in the short term without the majority of ghe resentment. The only cost is the referendum in the future, but then we'll have had two decades of integration and cooperation and aid as opposed to our current fast and brutal war. The chance for independence will mollify those who distrust us, giving us time to prove that we are trustworthy.

Protectorate is kinda a bad middle ground IMO. Those who resent and distrust us will hate paying our taxes, and we won't get the long-term benefits of all of their land.
Asmodemus said:
Seriously, there's nothing there and there's not going to be a Crystal Empire ever again. Little ticing them off but they really aren't in a position to complain about people getting new homes. Ties us closer to Neighpon and they'll establish a port for free closer to the crystal empire meaning goods come in easier for our new territory.
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Give it a couple decades and we'll be able to start colonizing it ourselves. More importantly, giving the land away angers our new subjects. We could instead offer to sell the land in exchange for additional aid or other resources, but giving it away in exchange for their moderate war aid is overly generous.
 
notgreat said:
Give it a couple decades and we'll be able to start colonizing it ourselves.
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Yes, but I'd rather closer ties to our neighbor, a functional port, and a reputation for giving our allies their fair share of spoils than more clay later on. And if the Neighponese don't get this land they'll be seeking more land for their colonization, and who knows if that'll turn out safe? If they end up claiming somewhere that's dangerous and a lot of people die do you think nobody'll blame us for not giving them the land not yet colonized by that time?

notgreat said:
More importantly, giving the land away angers our new subjects.
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Slightly, yes. But they're rather not in a position to complain and given pony nature I think they'll get over it swiftly, especially if the Neighponese treat any Crystal Empire relics they may find with respect/hand it over to them. Assuming the Ponies actually had anything there at any point instead of just going 'nobody's here so far so that's ours' to empty territory.

notgreat said:
We could instead offer to sell the land in exchange for additional aid or other resources, but giving it away in exchange for their moderate war aid is overly generous.
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Do you have a potential offer in mind? Our guy was a merchant after all. Getting more magical research aid would be nice..
 
I must say I am much more in favor of protectorate then partial annexation. Why kick the can down the road when we can solve it now.
Adhoc vote count started by Raptor580 on May 11, 2019 at 3:25 PM, finished with 92 posts and 25 votes.
  • [X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies:
    [X] Naval Base
    [X] Partial Annexation:
    [X] Joint Custody:
    [X] Protectorate
    [X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
    [X] Protectorate: Aid will be provided on the condition of the Crystal Empire becoming a Protectorate of Gryphus. While the Crystal Ponies will be allowed a degree of autonomy over their own affairs, they will be considered a part of the Empire. A portion of their tax revenue will be paid to you, and they will be protected from outside aggression by the might of the Imperial Military. The vast majority of Crystal Ponies would be content with this, not believing themselves capable of standing on their own hooves so soon after their liberation from Sombra, and seeing the assistance gained as being well worth the price of some of their autonomy. And while some of the particularly ambitious members of your nobility may grumble a bit, most of your own people will likely see this arrangement as beneficial. Though it should be noted that the attitudes of the Crystal Ponies may change with time, either seeking independence or further integration into the Empire itself. Something to think about at any rate.
    [X] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.
    [X] Neighponese Colonization:
    [X] Navel Base
    [X] Partial Annexation: One of the compromises that was formed and discussed at the meeting itself. The Crystal Empire will be annexed by Gryphus, but not necessarily in perpetuity. In 20 years, a referendum will be held amongst the residents of the Crystal Empire to determine whether they wish to remain subjects of the Empire, or become their own sovereign state. Both the Crystal Ponies and the Griffons of the Empire are likely to be content with this...for the foreseeable future. Elva warns you that this plan is basically "kicking the can down the road" and delaying a decision that it might be better to make now. While she won't be there to witness it, she can easily foresee such a vote being a dramatic and contentious thing that may divide the Crystal Ponies and lead to political conflict. Still, it may be the best way to ensure everyone gets what they want, even if temporarily.
    [X] Full Annexation
    [X] Neighponese Colonization: The lands that the Neighponese are eyeing for colonization have no population, no infrastructure, nothing but a line on a map to show that it is a part of the Crystal Empire. You see no reason they shouldn't have the opportunity to make use of the land. While this will greatly please Kōryū and his people, the Crystal Ponies might not be so happy about their territory being seized by a foreign power, regardless of the fact that they aren't using it.
    [X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies: The Crystal Heart belongs to the Crystal Ponies. It's as simple as that. This won't prevent you from studying or even potentially making use of the heart yourself, but you won't be able to do anything without the Crystal Ponies' permission.
    [X] Full Independence:
    [X] Victory is Reward Enough:
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Adhoc vote count started by Raptor580 on May 11, 2019 at 3:26 PM, finished with 92 posts and 25 votes.
  • [X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies:
    [X] Naval Base
    [X] Partial Annexation:
    [X] Joint Custody:
    [X] Protectorate
    [X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
    [X] Protectorate: Aid will be provided on the condition of the Crystal Empire becoming a Protectorate of Gryphus. While the Crystal Ponies will be allowed a degree of autonomy over their own affairs, they will be considered a part of the Empire. A portion of their tax revenue will be paid to you, and they will be protected from outside aggression by the might of the Imperial Military. The vast majority of Crystal Ponies would be content with this, not believing themselves capable of standing on their own hooves so soon after their liberation from Sombra, and seeing the assistance gained as being well worth the price of some of their autonomy. And while some of the particularly ambitious members of your nobility may grumble a bit, most of your own people will likely see this arrangement as beneficial. Though it should be noted that the attitudes of the Crystal Ponies may change with time, either seeking independence or further integration into the Empire itself. Something to think about at any rate.
    [X] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.
    [X] Neighponese Colonization:
    [X] Navel Base
    [X] Partial Annexation: One of the compromises that was formed and discussed at the meeting itself. The Crystal Empire will be annexed by Gryphus, but not necessarily in perpetuity. In 20 years, a referendum will be held amongst the residents of the Crystal Empire to determine whether they wish to remain subjects of the Empire, or become their own sovereign state. Both the Crystal Ponies and the Griffons of the Empire are likely to be content with this...for the foreseeable future. Elva warns you that this plan is basically "kicking the can down the road" and delaying a decision that it might be better to make now. While she won't be there to witness it, she can easily foresee such a vote being a dramatic and contentious thing that may divide the Crystal Ponies and lead to political conflict. Still, it may be the best way to ensure everyone gets what they want, even if temporarily.
    [X] Full Annexation
    [X] Neighponese Colonization: The lands that the Neighponese are eyeing for colonization have no population, no infrastructure, nothing but a line on a map to show that it is a part of the Crystal Empire. You see no reason they shouldn't have the opportunity to make use of the land. While this will greatly please Kōryū and his people, the Crystal Ponies might not be so happy about their territory being seized by a foreign power, regardless of the fact that they aren't using it.
    [X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies: The Crystal Heart belongs to the Crystal Ponies. It's as simple as that. This won't prevent you from studying or even potentially making use of the heart yourself, but you won't be able to do anything without the Crystal Ponies' permission.
    [X] Full Independence:
    [X] Victory is Reward Enough:
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Adhoc vote count started by Raptor580 on May 11, 2019 at 3:26 PM, finished with 92 posts and 25 votes.
  • [X] Protectorate
    [X] Navel Base
    [X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies:
    [X] Partial Annexation:
    [X] Naval Base
    [X] Joint Custody:
    [X] Protectorate: Aid will be provided on the condition of the Crystal Empire becoming a Protectorate of Gryphus. While the Crystal Ponies will be allowed a degree of autonomy over their own affairs, they will be considered a part of the Empire. A portion of their tax revenue will be paid to you, and they will be protected from outside aggression by the might of the Imperial Military. The vast majority of Crystal Ponies would be content with this, not believing themselves capable of standing on their own hooves so soon after their liberation from Sombra, and seeing the assistance gained as being well worth the price of some of their autonomy. And while some of the particularly ambitious members of your nobility may grumble a bit, most of your own people will likely see this arrangement as beneficial. Though it should be noted that the attitudes of the Crystal Ponies may change with time, either seeking independence or further integration into the Empire itself. Something to think about at any rate.
    [X] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.
    [X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
    [X] Partial Annexation:
    [X] Neighponese Colonization:
    [X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies:
    [X] Protectorate
    [X] Naval Base
    [X] Joint Custody:
    [X] Partial Annexation: One of the compromises that was formed and discussed at the meeting itself. The Crystal Empire will be annexed by Gryphus, but not necessarily in perpetuity. In 20 years, a referendum will be held amongst the residents of the Crystal Empire to determine whether they wish to remain subjects of the Empire, or become their own sovereign state. Both the Crystal Ponies and the Griffons of the Empire are likely to be content with this...for the foreseeable future. Elva warns you that this plan is basically "kicking the can down the road" and delaying a decision that it might be better to make now. While she won't be there to witness it, she can easily foresee such a vote being a dramatic and contentious thing that may divide the Crystal Ponies and lead to political conflict. Still, it may be the best way to ensure everyone gets what they want, even if temporarily.
    [X] Neighponese Colonization: The lands that the Neighponese are eyeing for colonization have no population, no infrastructure, nothing but a line on a map to show that it is a part of the Crystal Empire. You see no reason they shouldn't have the opportunity to make use of the land. While this will greatly please Kōryū and his people, the Crystal Ponies might not be so happy about their territory being seized by a foreign power, regardless of the fact that they aren't using it.
    [X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
    [X] Partial Annexation: One of the compromises that was formed and discussed at the meeting itself. The Crystal Empire will be annexed by Gryphus, but not necessarily in perpetuity. In 20 years, a referendum will be held amongst the residents of the Crystal Empire to determine whether they wish to remain subjects of the Empire, or become their own sovereign state. Both the Crystal Ponies and the Griffons of the Empire are likely to be content with this...for the foreseeable future. Elva warns you that this plan is basically "kicking the can down the road" and delaying a decision that it might be better to make now. While she won't be there to witness it, she can easily foresee such a vote being a dramatic and contentious thing that may divide the Crystal Ponies and lead to political conflict. Still, it may be the best way to ensure everyone gets what they want, even if temporarily.
    [X] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.
    [X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
    [X] Partial Annexation:
    [X] Naval Base
    [X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies:
    [X] Protectorate: Aid will be provided on the condition of the Crystal Empire becoming a Protectorate of Gryphus. While the Crystal Ponies will be allowed a degree of autonomy over their own affairs, they will be considered a part of the Empire. A portion of their tax revenue will be paid to you, and they will be protected from outside aggression by the might of the Imperial Military. The vast majority of Crystal Ponies would be content with this, not believing themselves capable of standing on their own hooves so soon after their liberation from Sombra, and seeing the assistance gained as being well worth the price of some of their autonomy. And while some of the particularly ambitious members of your nobility may grumble a bit, most of your own people will likely see this arrangement as beneficial. Though it should be noted that the attitudes of the Crystal Ponies may change with time, either seeking independence or further integration into the Empire itself. Something to think about at any rate.
    [X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
    [X] Full Annexation
    [X] Naval Base
    [X] Joint Custody:
    [X] Protectorate: Aid will be provided on the condition of the Crystal Empire becoming a Protectorate of Gryphus. While the Crystal Ponies will be allowed a degree of autonomy over their own affairs, they will be considered a part of the Empire. A portion of their tax revenue will be paid to you, and they will be protected from outside aggression by the might of the Imperial Military. The vast majority of Crystal Ponies would be content with this, not believing themselves capable of standing on their own hooves so soon after their liberation from Sombra, and seeing the assistance gained as being well worth the price of some of their autonomy. And while some of the particularly ambitious members of your nobility may grumble a bit, most of your own people will likely see this arrangement as beneficial. Though it should be noted that the attitudes of the Crystal Ponies may change with time, either seeking independence or further integration into the Empire itself. Something to think about at any rate.
    [X] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.
    [X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies: The Crystal Heart belongs to the Crystal Ponies. It's as simple as that. This won't prevent you from studying or even potentially making use of the heart yourself, but you won't be able to do anything without the Crystal Ponies' permission.
    [X] Full Independence:
    [X] Victory is Reward Enough:
    [X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies:
    [X] Full Annexation
    [X] Neighponese Colonization:
    [X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies:
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Adhoc vote count started by Raptor580 on May 11, 2019 at 3:27 PM, finished with 92 posts and 25 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Raptor580 on May 11, 2019 at 6:33 PM, finished with 146 posts and 55 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Raptor580 on May 12, 2019 at 12:13 AM, finished with 168 posts and 72 votes.
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I feel leaving the Crystal Heart fully in the hoofs of the Crystal Ponies is the best course of action regarding it. First of all, taking it out of the crystal empire just sounds like a bad idea. Since It's a semi-sapient magical artefact. Who knows what 'accidents' might happen were we to try and take it back to the capital.

Second, it's such a core part of the Crystal Ponies identity that even Joint Custody might build some resentment from them. And giving them full control over it is going to be a huge first step in easing their worries about the other aspects of the accord.

Third, it probably needs a Crystal Pony to work anyways. So even in 'Joint Custody' we'd be pretty much leaving it in their hoofs anyways. So giving them full custody on paper will be just as effective, while further distancing ourself from Sombra in their eyes.



For the Neiponise Colonization is probably the best route. They probably still have to go through our Empire to reach their new colony, but that will just promote trade, and gives us a bit of a Damocleace Sword to hang over them in case of... issues... down the road.


For Crystal Statehood, I want to either say Protectorate or Full Annexation. partial annexation feels like the worst option that makes everyone angry, as we're still basically annexing the CP for all intents and purposes, and once the deadline hits 20 years later, we're going to have to go through another major restructuring should the CP decide to succed, which is going to be a nightmare as there are going to be many Imperial Nobles who would have made investments in the land that are going to have their land taken away. Every time someone politically "kicks something down the road" it always inevitably just makes the situation worse as it just leaves more time for the politics to muddy even further. So no matter our decision, I'd rather it be a firm one.
 
[ ] Partial Annexation: One of the compromises that was formed and discussed at the meeting itself. The Crystal Empire will be annexed by Gryphus, but not necessarily in perpetuity. In 20 years, a referendum will be held amongst the residents of the Crystal Empire to determine whether they wish to remain subjects of the Empire, or become their own sovereign state. Both the Crystal Ponies and the Griffons of the Empire are likely to be content with this...for the foreseeable future. Elva warns you that this plan is basically "kicking the can down the road" and delaying a decision that it might be better to make now. While she won't be there to witness it, she can easily foresee such a vote being a dramatic and contentious thing that may divide the Crystal Ponies and lead to political conflict. Still, it may be the best way to ensure everyone gets what they want, even if temporarily.


honey them up for 20 years, then propose either protectorate or independence with any lingerring costs for building up their country from ruin as a national dept seems like it would be the best option. the reason why i disliked the other options is that the crystal ponies will otherwise live destitude for gods know how long and be of no use if we don't step in and that it will bot be a good look politically to simply take over after liberating. yes it was an objectively good thing and they are better off but people aren't logical like that.

[ ] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.


this only because i REALLY don't want to give then some colonization land. plus it helps give us that look of "defending crystal interests", which we are.


[ ] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.

hey, if they are ok with us looking at it then i don't see any problem with them letting us look at it. maybe we can even do a bit of that Fisher King magic and make the land healthy again
 
Actually, could we just hand our northeastern most coastal region between the farthest northeaster river bay and the easternmost northwestern river bay to the neighpon? It's super far north and there aren't any major waterways in the area so it's probably pretty barren and useless and we probably don't have any notable settlements in the area but if their concern is not any form of resources or anything of economic value but purely living space and just living space it's perfect for them. Even better since they'll be settling it and thus keeping our norther coast defended where we are generally less able and lack any incentive to be in the area so as to defend it anyway.

So yeah, we could give away a useless liability that's sole use is defending the liability and exactly the nonsense situation the neighponese profess that they are in that will never apply to us. Perks, the liability is defended and if the neighponese are being honest we win goodwill. Downsides, maybe there's like unprospected copper or something but really who gives a shit.

Pittauro said:
Another reasonable compromise, though I dislike the fixed deadline a bit. Not exactly against it, but I would prefer if they decided for themselves, without the pressure of a deadline.
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Actually, could we do a subvoteto let the crystal ponies choose a deadline? @Questor

notgreat said:
Protectorate is kinda a bad middle ground IMO. Those who resent and distrust us will hate paying our taxes, and we won't get the long-term benefits of all of their land.
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More importantly, they won't get the full benefit of our more realized involvement. It hands them all the downsides and none of the up.

notgreat said:
If we instead do the Partial annex, we get the same benefits as full annex in the short term without the majority of ghe resentment. The only cost is the referendum in the future, but then we'll have had two decades of integration and cooperation and aid as opposed to our current fast and brutal war. The chance for independence will mollify those who distrust us, giving us time to prove that we are trustworthy.
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And also importantly, it allows us to truly build goodwill and build them up for however the future referendum goes so we know we'll be on the right foot with everybody unlews we pull a face turn and start fucking them over for no reason completely out of character.
 
Raptor580 said:
I must say I am much more in favor of protectorate then partial annexation. Why kick the can down the road when we can solve it now.
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Because a protectorate is also just delaying the time till they call themselves a part of our empire and the partial is more or less just giving them a trial run of what it's going to be like in our empire which should be pleasing.

BlackoutSampler said:
They probably still have to go through our Empire to reach their new colony,
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It's on the coast. They're going to be the ones we go through to get supplies to the Crystal Empire easier save for airships or light packages by flying.
 
Keani said:
And also importantly, it allows us to truly build goodwill and build them up for however the future referendum goes so we know we'll be on the right foot with everybody unlews we pull a face turn and start fucking them over for no reason completely out of character.
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Not really it is option that pleases both Crystal ponies and nobility.
But should they decide to leave one faction will be displeased in this.
 
I think we should give the Neighpon the land that way they stay close by. Also they did help alot remember they have a lot less land, people, and resources than we do. They sent the majority of their fighting power to help win the war. And it was their fighter on the top that helped stem the tide and bought us the time we needed.

Also I am now thinking we give the crystal ponies full control over the crystal heart. because really the only thing we want it for is studying it to see if it can be used to help speed up the recovery of the land. which I do not see them having any sort of issue allowing us to study it for that so really joint custody went really help out anymore in that respect.
 
Adventwolf said:
Also I am now thinking we give the crystal ponies full control over the crystal heart. because really the only thing we want it for is studying it to see if it can be used to help speed up the recovery of the land. which I do not see them having any sort of issue allowing us to study it for that so really joint custody went really help out anymore in that respect.
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A fair point, I mainly was for joint because I felt our guards are likely to be better.. but hey, I'm cool with just going 'is only for crystal ponies'.
 
Asmodemus said:
Because a protectorate is also just delaying the time till they call themselves a part of our empire and the partial is more or less just giving them a trial run of what it's going to be like in our empire which should be pleasing.
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Yes but while a protectorate it can be done much slower and with less potential political dived on the crystal ponies part. though i will say im fine with either as they are almost essential the same.

Also moratarium is now over people.
 
Adventwolf said:
Also I am now thinking we give the crystal ponies full control over the crystal heart. because really the only thing we want it for is studying it to see if it can be used to help speed up the recovery of the land. which I do not see them having any sort of issue allowing us to study it for that so really joint custody went really help out anymore in that respect.
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Once again, I disagree.
 
[X] Protectorate: Aid will be provided on the condition of the Crystal Empire becoming a Protectorate of Gryphus. While the Crystal Ponies will be allowed a degree of autonomy over their own affairs, they will be considered a part of the Empire. A portion of their tax revenue will be paid to you, and they will be protected from outside aggression by the might of the Imperial Military. The vast majority of Crystal Ponies would be content with this, not believing themselves capable of standing on their own hooves so soon after their liberation from Sombra, and seeing the assistance gained as being well worth the price of some of their autonomy. And while some of the particularly ambitious members of your nobility may grumble a bit, most of your own people will likely see this arrangement as beneficial. Though it should be noted that the attitudes of the Crystal Ponies may change with time, either seeking independence or further integration into the Empire itself. Something to think about at any rate.

[X] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.

[X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
 
We know we can activate the Heart since we did activate it during the the war. Also we are going to be the ones guarding it in any but the fully Independent option.
 
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[X] Partial Annexation: One of the compromises that was formed and discussed at the meeting itself. The Crystal Empire will be annexed by Gryphus, but not necessarily in perpetuity. In 20 years, a referendum will be held amongst the residents of the Crystal Empire to determine whether they wish to remain subjects of the Empire, or become their own sovereign state. Both the Crystal Ponies and the Griffons of the Empire are likely to be content with this...for the foreseeable future. Elva warns you that this plan is basically "kicking the can down the road" and delaying a decision that it might be better to make now. While she won't be there to witness it, she can easily foresee such a vote being a dramatic and contentious thing that may divide the Crystal Ponies and lead to political conflict. Still, it may be the best way to ensure everyone gets what they want, even if temporarily.

[X] Neighponese Colonization: The lands that the Neighponese are eyeing for colonization have no population, no infrastructure, nothing but a line on a map to show that it is a part of the Crystal Empire. You see no reason they shouldn't have the opportunity to make use of the land. While this will greatly please Kōryū and his people, the Crystal Ponies might not be so happy about their territory being seized by a foreign power, regardless of the fact that they aren't using it.

[X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
 
[X] Partial Annexation: One of the compromises that was formed and discussed at the meeting itself. The Crystal Empire will be annexed by Gryphus, but not necessarily in perpetuity. In 20 years, a referendum will be held amongst the residents of the Crystal Empire to determine whether they wish to remain subjects of the Empire, or become their own sovereign state. Both the Crystal Ponies and the Griffons of the Empire are likely to be content with this...for the foreseeable future. Elva warns you that this plan is basically "kicking the can down the road" and delaying a decision that it might be better to make now. While she won't be there to witness it, she can easily foresee such a vote being a dramatic and contentious thing that may divide the Crystal Ponies and lead to political conflict. Still, it may be the best way to ensure everyone gets what they want, even if temporarily.

[X] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.

[X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
 
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[X] Partial Annexation:
[X] Neighponese Colonization:
[X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies:

We show that we are indeed conquerers, but with a conscience, ones that are out to better our empire but also those around us. A trial run for those coming into our empire. And if they somehow decide it's better to leave, we let them and keep the ties we made and hope they come to miss the empire enough to rejoin.

The neighponese have a tiny island and need more breathing room. I see no reason to hog all the clay to ourselves. We can always conquer more. And the crystal ponies will no doubt see the benefit once they meet their new neighbors and trade and learn of them and their neat civilization.

And the crystal heart.. I don't think we truly care about being able to poke it to our heart's content. We're not out to make more, we're not magic heavy. It's nice to have around and we might come up with a need it may be able to solve.. but I can't think of anything that we'd want to bypass them on.
 
[X] Protectorate: Aid will be provided on the condition of the Crystal Empire becoming a Protectorate of Gryphus. While the Crystal Ponies will be allowed a degree of autonomy over their own affairs, they will be considered a part of the Empire. A portion of their tax revenue will be paid to you, and they will be protected from outside aggression by the might of the Imperial Military. The vast majority of Crystal Ponies would be content with this, not believing themselves capable of standing on their own hooves so soon after their liberation from Sombra, and seeing the assistance gained as being well worth the price of some of their autonomy. And while some of the particularly ambitious members of your nobility may grumble a bit, most of your own people will likely see this arrangement as beneficial. Though it should be noted that the attitudes of the Crystal Ponies may change with time, either seeking independence or further integration into the Empire itself. Something to think about at any rate.

[X] Naval Base: A plot of land along the Eastern Coast will be "leased" to the Neighponese for the next century. While the Crystal Empire will retain ultimate sovereignty over the land, the Kingdom of Neighpon will exercise complete control and jurisdiction over the land itself. The land will be used solely for military purposes, and will not engage in resource extraction or serve as a civilian settlement. While neither party will be particularly happy with this compromise, neither will particularly disapprove. Some few Crystal Ponies actually like the idea of having a foreign military base nearby to serve as a deterrent to any foreign aggression.

[X] Joint Custody: While the Heart will remain within the Crystal Empire, it will be under the shared control of the Crystal Empire and the Empire of Gryphus. This will allow you to study and make use of the Heart more or less freely, though the Crystal Ponies reserve the right to protest a particular course of action if they feel it threatens the Heart itself. Most Crystal Ponies would be perfectly fine with such an arrangement. So long as the Crystal Heart remains in the Crystal City and continues to serve as the guardian of its inhabitants, they are fine with whatever experiments you may decide to run on it.
 
Star said:
Not really it is option that pleases both Crystal ponies and nobility.
But should they decide to leave one faction will be displeased in this.
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Okay but you did catch like, everything I said? Because I'm saying there's more to the situation than right now pleasing crystal ponies and right now pleasing nobles and eventually maybe displeasing nobles slightly.

Aside from that, I care far more for the opinion and wellbeing of the crystal ponies than some powerless nobles.

Besides, that will only happen if we fuck it up, if we do it right the referendum will be in our favor pretty much garunteed. There's enough time to work that good will.


anyway, off to the polls

[X] Partial Annexation
[X] Naval Base
[X] In the care of the Crystal Ponies


Come on people, let's go all in. If we grant them full independence they can take it for themselves trhough a referendum after we build them to our level and then they can be a truly independantnation. If we want to integrate them we could not be assholes and build them up to our level rather than leaving them flailing in poverty until they decide to join us.

Also they are willing to let us use the artifact so let them keep their artifact, if we're not assholes there's no downsides.
 
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