Azel: "I made a new PrC for Lya. It's a bit less standard, but not overwhelmingly powerful."
[Scrolls down]


Seriously. The best combat and survival capstone of the entire game, and it's described as "not overly powerful"
All the other abilities would already make this PrC top-tier!
It's very cool though, and it isn't any cheesier than Daenerys' PrC or Viserys's Dragon form

EDIT: Okay, it's a lot cheesier than Viserys's Dragon form
 
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Azel: "I made a new PrC for Lya. It's a bit less standard, but not overwhelmingly powerful."
[Scrolls down]


Seriously. The best combat and survival capstone of the entire game, and it's described as "not overly powerful"
All the other abilities would already make this PrC top-tier!
It's damn fluffy though, and it isn't any cheesier than Daenerys' PrC or Viserys's Dragon form

EDIT: Okay, it's a lot cheesier than Viserys's Dragon form

Viserys suffers from no weaknesses and is a good combatant at any range, using magic or melee.

Lya can make the forces of reality her bitch.

Standard Wizard Sorcerer logical follow through, if you apply PrCs to them. Versatility vs. Power.
 
Viserys suffers from no weaknesses and is a good combatant at any range, using magic or melee.

Lya can make the forces of reality her bitch.

Standard Wizard Sorcerer logical follow through, if you apply PrCs to them. Versatility vs. Power.
Oh, I agree that it's a great PrC.
I just find the description of it as "not overly powerful" hilarious.

I love cheese, but even I would ban the PrCs of our Companions at most tables.
 
Oh, I agree that it's a great PrC.
I just find the description of it as "not overly powerful" hilarious.

I love cheese, but even I would ban the PrCs of our Companions at most tables.

I mean, it was mostly a means of circumventing lack of gear early on. Of course now that we have an army of crafters that's more of a sop than anything else, but one could argue a maxed out PrC character with the bare minimum gear would be about equal in combat power to a geared out the ying yang up to WBL standards equivalent with base class levels.
 
The thing I find funny is the prcs were originally meant to compensate for the lack of magic items that would usually be apart of the wealth by level.

Edit: Garined
 
[Margaery] desired power, not just over the servants, the smallfolk, something that every lord and lady held by birth, but over her peers, her future husband, whoever she might be, her fate.
Mace: "My daughter will marry Viserys!"

:lol:rofl::lol:rofl::lol:rofl:

More seriously, I utterly empathise with her desires. Wanting to have some control over your life - especially when you're due to be married off and are eternally subservient, dependent and inferior in the eyes of the law and society - is a very reasonable motivation.
Still... She makes it sound so evil somehow. If she starts cackling and building death rays, we send Garin after her. Or our plucky young wards: every bard knows that they have a 100% chance of success against this kind of enemy.
 
Also while banning these classes at a traditional "swords and sorcery high adventure dungeon crawl" table makes perfect sense, this Quest has more in common with grand strategy, and in terms of story beats much more in common with Epic Fantasy.
 
Mace: "My daughter will marry Viserys!"

:lol:rofl::lol:rofl::lol:rofl:

More seriously, I utterly empathise with her desires. Wanting to have some control over your life - especially when you're due to be married off and are eternally subservient, dependent and inferior in the eyes of the law and society - is a very reasonable motivation.
Still... She makes it sound so evil somehow. If she starts cackling and building death rays, we send Garin after her. Or our plucky young wards: every bard knows that they have a 100% chance of success against this kind of enemy.

She makes it sound evil because in the eyes of most men in Westeros it is the most heinous, highest form of vile garbage ever uttered from a woman's lips.
 
Also while banning these classes at a traditional "swords and sorcery high adventure dungeon crawl" table makes perfect sense, this Quest has more in common with grand strategy, and in terms of story beats much more in common with Epic Fantasy.
Yeah if this was a more classic setting we would have a lot more noble bashing and slave bashing and a lot less money. Probably then again there are a lot more treasure trove hidden away in classic d&d so oh so many cave of loot.
 
She makes it sound evil because in the eyes of most men in Westeros it is the most heinous, highest form of vile garbage ever uttered from a woman's lips.
She genuinely sounds like a cartoon villain.
I think it's because of the italics on the word power, and the reference to servants that suggests domination of others and not just influence over her own fate.
And now I love the idea of Margaery as a cartoon villain. A Girl Genius style "Spark" going on crafting fugues, making death rays and ranting at meddling teenagers come to stop her plan to blow up the moon!
 
She genuinely sounds like a cartoon villain.
I think it's because of the italics on the word power, and the reference to servants that suggests domination of others and not just influence over her own fate.
And now I love the idea of Margaery as a cartoon villain. A Girl Genius style "Spark" going on crafting fugues, making death rays and ranting at meddling teenagers come to stop her plan to blow up the moon!

I wouldn't doubt it. She's a Tyrell.

Maddened treacherous roses with an unquenchable thirst for power and influence.
 
She genuinely sounds like a cartoon villain.
I think it's because of the italics on the word power, and the reference to servants that suggests domination of others and not just influence over her own fate.
And now I love the idea of Margaery as a cartoon villain. A Girl Genius style "Spark" going on crafting fugues, making death rays and ranting at meddling teenagers come to stop her plan to blow up the moon!
I'm sure we can make an Artificer build to that effect.
 
People, I remember the days of zero gear, back when TNE made huge posts explaining why we were hundreds of thousands of IM too poor and thus likely to die at any moment.
It makes sense to allow for better PrCs in this situation. But the very idea of calling a wizard PrC that allows utter murder of the cation economy "not overwhelmingly powerful" (especially in this game where we tend to have short adventuring days) is just hilarious.
This isn't intended to be a mockery of Azel or anything (I can see where he was coming from, especially if he was comparing it to an Infinite free Wishes and endless actions Dweomerkeeper+Dragon Mystic+Archmage combo). I just thought people would share my amusement in-thread.

When DP decided to let us go full bore with the cash and crafting, we truly became insanely good. But then the opposition got better too, so... No complaints from me, though I will try to dial the cheese down when I can on some PCs.
 
Canon Omake: Inflamed Revelry
Inflamed Revelry

Twenty-Seventh Day of the Eighth Month 293 AC
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Ducking under the side-winding punch from the staggering opponent before him, the Stormlander wrapped two brawny arms around the wincing hedge knight, the man's wheezing gasp barely heard over the roaring laughter of the crowd gathered together in the late evening. The Last Stand was filled to bursting, one among many taverns in the Deep experiencing an extreme upsurge in clientele, well-known to hosting off-duty Legionnaires, now taking the custom of dozens of knights. From what Ceria had said, even some Lords attending the King's festival in secret.

Criston dropped the man like a sack of grain, twisting their arm until they thumped a closed fist upon the ground in submission. He sprang back up like he was five and twenty again, spry as a young buck with something to prove, making him think of those distant years he had traveled to shores such as these with violence at hand and duty in mind. The kind of blood he'd been shedding in these lands of late had been done with a lighter heart and no crying widows and maimed men who would never be able to stand upon the field again ere the war was done.

Then again, he had been touched by strong restorative magicks that had eased the worst aches and pains age had to offer to a man approaching his fifth decade, surrounded by a mix of sword arms from both the younger and the more contemporary generations, Bonifer Hasty, newly taking up his jousting lance even after he had sworn off tourneys for piety, among them.

Seeing as how it was Thoros of Myr pressing a tankard of ale into his hand the moment the bare-chested wrestling match he was cajoled into was done, he marked down the irony well. Not that long ago the stout red priest had been trading drinks and war stories with Robert bloody Baratheon, twice damned traitor. Though that perhaps spoke more of the substance of the times than the company worth keeping. Criston emptied his cups as fast as the red robed priest and with almost as much enthusiasm as Ser Philip Foote who had been swept up in the celebrant jousters and some of those warriors who had traded blows out on the sands.

Scarbrand and Argo the Cunning crashed enormous mugs together while men around them cheered, two emptied barrels of ale lying forgotten nearby, having had no small part in the provenance of this gathering's libations. Ser Garth Greenfield, another Westerman, was red-faced and hanging over a banister on the second floor of the tavern, surrounded by the laughing faces of Harmen Flowers and the sellsword Vaevar who had recently pledged service to the Dragon Banner.

Bonifer Hasty smiled at the antics Criston had dragged him into, steel grey hair drawn neatly out of his face making him seem younger with the dust of the trail beaten off his back, even if the both of them were out of the shining steel armor the King had gifted them. Criston swung an arm around the man's shoulder, the knight pouring the pitcher into his cup with steadfast resignation and even a hint of amusement dancing in his eye. "Damn it all! Stop clapping you louts!" Criston jeered at the impromptu stage, causing a new round of laughter. "If you want to applaud, give a hand to my friend Ser Bonifer here! A man who can hit you so hard from any angle you'll be pissing blood for weeks unless you know a good healer!"

"Perhaps a boast lacking in much appeal for those being hit," Bonifer honest-to-gods jested. Who says you can't teach an old salt new tricks, Criston thought, hand flying to where the other Stormlander's lance had driven him from his horse.

"Nonsense," Criston dismissed, "Everyone likes a hero of the hour." And Hasty was more palatable for some of the more pious peacocks to tout as a paragon of virtue regardless. It was a sour pill to swallow to cheer on a Dothraki lancer who had gone so far where others had fallen, for instance. That they were a Dothraki woman a moral outrage. Can't protect the 'weak' and women if they're taking up arms themselves, now can they? The thought rang through his head not bitterly but with an air of amusement, the pair of Stormlander knights crashing mugs together with the priest he'd bested in turn, though perhaps only by being well prepared for some of their tricks. No amount of preparation would help against someone who was just that damn talented on a horse like Ser Bonifer, though.

"It would seem to me the hero of every hour in this city couldn't be more certain," Bonifer replied lightly.

"Oh aye," Thoros agreed, "And a thousand mugs raised in his honor upon every hour too. Still, he can't hold his ale half as well as some Stormlanders I know do..."

"You speak like you've drank with him," Criston sniffed, finding it hard to believe this red-faced Essosi had managed to get pissed with not just one but two Kings. Thoros raised both brows and smiled serenely behind his mug. "No..? You drank with Viserys Targaryen?"

"If you're wondering, don't get into a competition with that boy. He cheats shamelessly," the Myrman said with his usual amount of cheek.

"And you don't?" Kennos of Kayce queried, laugh-lines becoming more pronounced as some unspoken message was passed between the two in that moment.

"The Lord of Light guides us all... sometimes through peril, sometimes through a hangover."

The four men chuckled. When was the last time any of them had to deal with a hangover, one from a great store of temperance, three from copious use of alchemical relief.

Criston didn't doubt that the greatest thing to come from mixing rare herbs and spices together in a decanter had to be a hangover cure.

***
The laughs and smiles could still be heard from the floor below, but in the upstairs private seating of the Stand, Thoros' were now all gone. They were joined only by Kennos, presence tolerable to their guest given he was a still somewhat new convert to the Red Faith and devout at that.

Eventually she spoke, the momentary shiver going up the Myrish priest's spine going ignored in favor of the sheer presence she exuded with every breath. "Thoros of Myr. I recall you being charged with the conversion of one King, only failing in that to willfully descend into debauchery and decay with another. What guided your hand to this place where East and West meets, lying in the shadow of crimson wings?" Red eyes flashed with the same startling intensity they took on in all things she considered of real importance.

"The same as you, I'm sure," Thoros eventually replied sharing a glance with his friend across the table. "The Lord of Light has guided me back to this place to see the birthing of an Empire, to learn the shape of the land in the days to come from the molten bedrock which will shape it, changing and destroying with every churning motion brought forth."

"Creating," Melisandre spoke, the merest nod to the truth of his words not making the Knight nearby relax an ounce given how she had all but demanded they speak. "And do you now take up those duties thrust upon your shoulders by the Lord with a will and passion?"

"Everyone has their place," Thoros sighed, "...and I believe mine to still be in Westeros. Eventually I will return there, for there is much darkness and evil to fight."

"If you were to remain longer... what would you say to training another?" Her eyes flashed aside to Kennos then, who stiffened sharply. "The Lord's Light has protected this weary soul, that much I can see..."

"That is up to Him, is it not?" Thoros said after long consideration.

"This is true, yet the rituals and scripture could be of some use. He is not... the most orthodox in his beliefs, I can see, though there might be some... worth to that. In these days."

"Don't I get a say in this..?" Kennos asked wearily, though Thoros just shook his head.

"The Lord's chosen will appear as he wills them to... but could you really turn away His touch if it was offered to you, knowing what you agreed to face?"

"No," Kennos said, thinking of all the horrors he'd endured and not able to turn them from his mind for anything. His fist clenched around the Horn of Herrock until the joints were white.

The Priestess' hand broke him from his stupor, soft fingers clenching against his shoulder. "You need not struggle alone. And I have... reflected that sharing these burdens with unlikely allies holds greater merit. I sense His touch upon you, his Light burns in all of us though manifests more in those who have their assigned time and place to shine. Would you agree that one should be prepared to undertake what is asked of him, even if they are plagued by fear or doubt?"

"His words are all I had while under lash and collar, both held by vile fiends. I know what the Flame is for," Kennos said quietly.

"Then you will learn how to cast it upon those that hide in the dark," Melisandre of Asshai spoke with all the finality of a nail in the coffin.

Thoros wondered if he would come to regret dragging his friend into that braying Abyss after him. Or introducing him to this red woman who remained an impenetrable enigma to him. Thoros had many regrets, but the greatest was ignoring His call when it might have done the most good.

And he would never ignore that calling ever again.
 
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How long will it take us to convert melisandre to polytheism? Oh it'll be fun. What the dice toll to convince Mel her gods an absolute dick? And through proper proganda we can eventually in a century or so make him less a dick through the power of faith and Propoganda pamphlets.
 
How long will it take us to convert melisandre to polytheism? Oh it'll be fun. What the dice toll to convince Mel her gods an absolute dick? And through proper proganda we can eventually in a century or so make him less a dick through the power of faith and Propoganda pamphlets.
You wouldn't convince the priest their god is a dick, you'd convince the priest to reinterprete scripture so it matches to 'current times'. Thereby influencing the worshippers, thereby influencing the god. For example 'there is only one god, and all are as slaves to him' might become 'the god most interested in the fate of slaves is Rhllor'.
 
I guess good morningish or whatever to dp. Goodnight for me though its 3 am I got up at 8 am in gonna go to bed. Yaaa we proposed to lya. Now how can we use this to fuck with Robert?
 
I mean there will be polygamy just not for viserys. Not that it will convince anyone viserys doesn't have a large harem of beautiful women. I would be unsurprised if oberyns exploits somehow were thought to be viserys someday through the mixed messaging that is the rumor mill.

Would it count as a harem if every girl in it has the same mind and soul?
 
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