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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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Alectai said:
Heck, even the torment to a certain degree is understandable.

The line to be drawn is when you've flayed the proverbial horse down to the bone and are busy now trying to grind the bones to dust, which is where we're at. It's no longer about punishment and now mostly about lashing yourself.
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This sums up my thoughts on the matter. The man tried to two-time a spirit of covetousness and endings. It's not like he's some doe-eyed ignorant mortal, he was a cultivator that knew exactly what he was doing. He made a choice, crit failed a roll somewhere, and now his soul is bound to some ice-automaton.

I feel more pity for Zeqing. Keeping the poor sod around is closer to self-flagellation at this point.
 
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The first option cannot be supported as just by the theory of retribution. It's not a just or deserved punishment because he was planning on doing the same thing to Zeqing. There is a monumental difference between "planning" an act and "committing" the act and the theory of retribution only concerns itself with the actual actions of the person.

However, the first option may be used to advance a theory of consequences. Here, we can see that
yrsillar said:
My husband was a scholar and a wanderer at heart, and so he discovered me
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and so we know that the husband was knowledgable. He was most likely cautious as well, prefering to research a subject or a task before diving down into it, much like a scholar would.

Given that, we can infer that he knew what he was getting into, that he hatched his scheme with knowledge about Zeqing's nature and how she would react should his plot be discovered. His actions were not accidental or negligent.

He knew which actions she would likely take should his plot be discovered, and yet continued with his plot regardless. His arrogance was his downfall, and as a result of his actions, consequences occurred. Whether they are just or not is immaterial because the consequences were known at the hatching of his plan. The problem with this argument, however, is that the question isn't whether there were consequences, but whether the consequences were deserved.

One could posit that the consequences were deserved because the consequences for his actions were known and he still willing assumed that risk. As such, due to his assumption of the very real risk, he assented to the very real possibility of consequences. He just thought he could get away with it without suffering the consequences. He was wrong.

It's partially the same reasoning there is an assumption of the risk form when doing whitewater rafting, or engaging in any other potentially dangerous situation. To make sure you know that it will be dangerous and there could be consequences. And if there are consequences, you can't sue the company because you assumed the risk.
 
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Wiggin42 said:
Sincerity is the measure by which the worthiness of the self and ones guests should be measured.

Going into a relationship with the intent to defraud you romantic partner is just asking for it. It is without question that he deserved some form of punishment for his attempted deception, the only question is how much is too much.

Since the binding would have lasted a lifetime, I'm inclined to think a lifetime of punishment is sufficient. And since cultivators live basically forever, the binding would have lasted basically forever, so the punishment should last basically forever.
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Cultivators don't live basically forever. A White Cultivator only lives about 1000 years. Assuming this dude would have been Indigo at best, he ain't living more than 500 years.

Not that it matters, but the idea that Zeqing's lifetime matches a human cultivators lifetime is simply false.
 
Thor's Twin said:
The first option cannot be supported as just by the theory of retribution. It's not a just or deserved punishment because he was planning on doing the same thing to Zeqing. There is a monumental difference between "planning" an act and "committing" the act and the theory of retribution only concerns itself with the actual actions of the person.
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Ah ah ahhhhhh

HOLD IT!

The fact that the dude was already linked to Hannyi, and had accomplished the act of procreation (even if he failed to finish the binding itself) indicates that he had committed the crime itself!

That he was interrupted mid-crime and thus failed does not absolve him of the crime in the least! No, if anything, what Zeqing has done here can be considered to be self defense!
 
bird yells said:
A more pertinent question might be: even assuming Zeqing is correct about the man's motivations, can we say her treatment of him is justified? Suppose her understanding of the situation is correct, which would make her suitor a would-be slaver and rapist. Does that mean Zeqing gets a free pass to enslave and torture him in whatever manner she likes, for as long as she likes?

For my part, I would suggest that anyone aspiring to justice should try to be better than a rapist subjugator. I have yet to see anyone itt articulate why his punishment is fair, beyond saying he'd probably have done something equally awful if the shoe was on the other foot. Finding a sufficiently monstrous person and gleefully sinking to his level because he "deserves" it is misguided at best; at worst, it's an excuse for gratuitous sadism.
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I think you forgetting that Zeqing isn't human, she is 'a spirit of spirit of darkness, of desire and covetousness' it's in her nature to be this possessive and cruel. Human justice doesn't apply to her in full manner and how should she know about what justice is in the first place?
It's gone for too long, yes. She shouldn't hold him anymore, but trying to apply human justice and morale here isn't a correct course of actions.
 
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[X] No, a death could be deserved, but not this torment. This shouldn't go on, it was harmful to Zeqing and Hanyi as well.
 
Two hours have passed. Release the salt!

[X] It is justified, but hasn't it gone on long enough? It could not be helpful to Zeqing or her daughter
 
[X] No, a death could be deserved, but not this torment. This shouldn't go on, it was harmful to Zeqing and Hanyi as well.

Ling Qi was revolted by the Bloody Moon's Justice so I don't see why that would change here.
FakePriest said:
I think you forgetting that Zeqing isn't human, she is 'a spirit of spirit of darkness, of desire and covetousness' it's in her nature to be this possessive and cruel. Human justice doesn't apply to her in full manner and how should she know about what justice is in the first place?
It's gone for too long, yes, she shouldn't hold him anymore. But trying to apply human justice and morale here isn't a correct coarse of actions.
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The Empire of which we belong and a Ducal heir of it which we serve disagree.
 
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A captain goes down with his ship, after all

[X] She could, the man had made his choices and here they led. She only worried that holding on to him like this hurt Zeqing and Hanyi.
 
[X] She could, the man had made his choices and here they led. She only worried that holding on to him like this hurt Zeqing and Hanyi.

No prevaricating.
 
[X] She could, the man had made his choices and here they led. She only worried that holding on to him like this hurt Zeqing and Hanyi.
[X] It is justified, but hasn't it gone on long enough? It could not be helpful to Zeqing or her daughter
 
Right, vote time.

[X] She could, the man had made his choices and here they led. She only worried that holding on to him like this hurt Zeqing and Hanyi.
 
1986ctcel said:
[X] No, a death could be deserved, but not this torment. This shouldn't go on, it was harmful to Zeqing and Hanyi as well.

Ling Qi was revolted by the Bloody Moon's Justice so I don't see why that would change here.

The Empire of which we belong and a Ducal heir of it which we serve disagree.
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Do they really? She was left alone after all.
 
TehChron said:
Ah ah ahhhhhh

HOLD IT!

The fact that the dude was already linked to Hannyi, and had accomplished the act of procreation (even if he failed to finish the binding itself) indicates that he had committed the crime itself!

That he was interrupted mid-crime and thus failed does not absolve him of the crime in the least! No, if anything, what Zeqing has done here can be considered to be self defense!
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Yes it does.

There is no question he was attempting to bind Zeqing and was using Hannyi as a tool towards that end.

But the crime was not the act of procreation. The crime would have been the enslavement of Zeqing for perpetuity. Which he failed to do. That Zeqing helped forge the very chains the man would use to bind her does not mean that the man actually bound her. It was still in the attempt phase because he was stopped half-way through the act of committing a crime. That's part of the very definition of "attempted crime" that one took a substantial step towards completing the crime.

Unless the argument has become that the procreation with Zeqing was done under false pretenses and that's why Zeqing bound him for eternity. But if that is the crime he committed, then the theory of retribution would entail an equal punishment... such as the killing of one of the man's children. Firstborn preferably.
 
[X] She could, the man had made his choices and here they led. She only worried that holding on to him like this hurt Zeqing and Hanyi.
[X] It is justified, but hasn't it gone on long enough? It could not be helpful to Zeqing or her daughter
 
[X] No, a death could be deserved, but not this torment. This shouldn't go on, it was harmful to Zeqing and Hanyi as well.
 
[X] She could, the man had made his choices and here they led. She only worried that holding on to him like this hurt Zeqing and Hanyi.
[X] It is justified, but hasn't it gone on long enough? It could not be helpful to Zeqing or her daughter
 
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[X] She could, the man had made his choices and here they led. She only worried that holding on to him like this hurt Zeqing and Hanyi.
[X] It is justified, but hasn't it gone on long enough? It could not be helpful to Zeqing or her daughter
 
[X] No, a death could be deserved, but not this torment. This shouldn't go on, it was harmful to Zeqing and Hanyi as well.
 
[X] She could, the man had made his choices and here they led. She only worried that holding on to him like this hurt Zeqing and Hanyi.
[X] It is justified, but hasn't it gone on long enough? It could not be helpful to Zeqing or her daughter
 
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