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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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@AntaeusTheGiant, how well versed are you with ASOIAF canon?

There are Green Men in the Isle of Faces but I think in this setting, and most probably related to the "auspicious birth" DP was referring to in Soft Strider's story, it is a Green Man.

Anyway, since my proposal does not have a bit of traction since this is too late for the rest of you,

[X] Azel
 
Pretty clear consensus, @DragonParadox.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Jul 2, 2018 at 10:51 PM, finished with 185 posts and 19 votes.
  • [X] Plan More Politics
    -[X] "That is quite a weighty matter and the implications far reaching. To give that much power in my realm to an entity wholly beyond the states control would be folly."
    -[X] "First and foremost, monopolies are poison for each market, so any such agreement would require that the Iron Bank does not try to leverage it to destroy any competitors. To have such central services controlled by only one entity across a large realm could have dire consequences for its economy. Competition is what drives us to greater heights after all and complacency invites rot."
    -[X] "Such a partnership would require that I can influence the Iron Banks workings and I need to retain some leeway in certain areas. Loans and financial services from the state to the state are not covered by this agreement. Likewise, my businesses need to retain the ability to loan and invest money for their own operations."
    -[X] "Furthermore, there are some rather weighty plans that I have in mind. Reforms that could make or break entire economies, but might be necessary far too soon in this changing world, no matter how much I wished to let these plans sit until a time of peace of stability."
    -[X] Pause a moment and show clearly on your face that the next statement is neither made lightly, nor born of greed.
    -[X] "In principle, I am quite content with my association with the Iron Bank so far, but I'm ill at ease at the thought of binding myself so tightly to it that it restricts my movements. I would be willing to offer it my patronage to the extent you wish, but I can only do so in exchange for influence and control to match."
    -[X] "Mind you that the spirit of such an agreement would be sacrosanct. I'm talking about leverage to influence business for the benefit of the state and all its citizens, not to rip the building out of Braavos and bring it vaults and all to the Deep. It would be the height of disrespect to meddle with an institution of it's pedigree for frivolous and petty reasons."
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Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Jul 2, 2018 at 11:06 PM, finished with 186 posts and 19 votes.
  • [X] Plan More Politics
    -[X] "That is quite a weighty matter and the implications far reaching. To give that much power in my realm to an entity wholly beyond the states control would be folly."
    -[X] "First and foremost, monopolies are poison for each market, so any such agreement would require that the Iron Bank does not try to leverage it to destroy any competitors. To have such central services controlled by only one entity across a large realm could have dire consequences for its economy. Competition is what drives us to greater heights after all and complacency invites rot."
    -[X] "Such a partnership would require that I can influence the Iron Banks workings and I need to retain some leeway in certain areas. Loans and financial services from the state to the state are not covered by this agreement. Likewise, my businesses need to retain the ability to loan and invest money for their own operations."
    -[X] "Furthermore, there are some rather weighty plans that I have in mind. Reforms that could make or break entire economies, but might be necessary far too soon in this changing world, no matter how much I wished to let these plans sit until a time of peace of stability."
    -[X] Pause a moment and show clearly on your face that the next statement is neither made lightly, nor born of greed.
    -[X] "In principle, I am quite content with my association with the Iron Bank so far, but I'm ill at ease at the thought of binding myself so tightly to it that it restricts my movements. I would be willing to offer it my patronage to the extent you wish, but I can only do so in exchange for influence and control to match."
    -[X] "Mind you that the spirit of such an agreement would be sacrosanct. I'm talking about leverage to influence business for the benefit of the state and all its citizens, not to rip the building out of Braavos and bring it vaults and all to the Deep. It would be the height of disrespect to meddle with an institution of it's pedigree for frivolous and petty reasons."
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@Azel "Furthermore, there are some rather weighty plans that I have in mind. Reforms that could make or break entire economies, but might be necessary far too soon in this changing world, no matter how much I wished to let these plans sit until a time of peace of stability"

You know, that would be the kind of sentence that might, if I were a man in the Lakechief's position, give me reason to ask "what reforms!?"

Don't suppose you would mind sharing what you mean by that with the class? :)
 
So this is what I have on Alysande so far:
Alysande Redsail
Race: Human
Alignment: ???
Wizard Variant Level 7
Current Known Spells (Wizard Spells)
0th -- Acid Splash, Arcane Mark, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Flare, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Resistance, Touch of Fatigue
1st --Charm Person, Erase, Grease, Obscuring Mist, True Strike, Alarm, Cheat, Detect Undead, Hail of Stone, Shield
2nd -- Detect Thoughts, Invisibility, Knock, Mirror Image, Fox's Cunning, Scorching Ray, Web, Rebuke, Sun Bolt
3rd -- Hold Person, Magic Circle Against Evil, Slow, Tongues, Blink, Dispel Magic, Great Thunderclap, Alter Fortune, Fireball
4th -- Black Tentacles, Fear, Resilient Sphere
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And known magic items:
Greater Ribbon of Disguise, Amulet of Protection from Evil
Supernatural Servant: Liminal Sprite (Bolt)

By the time this upcoming meeting with her is over, I want an updated list of her spells known, an updated list of her magic items, knowledge of how strong she's grown and what rituals she's learned, knowledge of all her party members and minions, etc.
 
Honestly, I kind of want to get this class of hers taught in Scholarum.
If any place can deal with it's pre-requisites and make sure people survive unscathed - it's there.

And it doesn't really matter if it's better/worse than what we already have

With how current scholarum system works, every class available will just give us a few more mages every 3 months, not taking away from numbers of other classes trained.
 
Duesal said:
So this is what I have on Alysande so far:
Alysande Redsail
Race: Human
Alignment: ???
Wizard Variant Level 7
Current Known Spells (Wizard Spells)

And known magic items:
Greater Ribbon of Disguise, Amulet of Protection from Evil
Supernatural Servant: Liminal Sprite (Bolt)

By the time this upcoming meeting with her is over, I want an updated list of her spells known, an updated list of her magic items, knowledge of how strong she's grown and what rituals she's learned, knowledge of all her party members and minions, etc.
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If she was involved in warding the Pondmaster's study, she also knows Invisibility Purge and Anticipate Teleportation, and has learned the Craft Wondrous Items feat.
 
So basically MADNESS!Lya.

Uthero is NEGA!Viserys. He can't turn into a dragon, his eccentricities are genuine rather than circumstantial (appearing weird without context rather than just being weird), not heir to a fallen dynasty, has the respect of all of his peers... okay. Maybe we're more similar than not. He did genuinely forget out of hand that Viserys was not native Braavosi (cue neon sign pointing at our silver hair and purple eyes which flash red and become cat-eye slitted).
 
Goldfish said:
If she was involved in warding the Pondmaster's study, she also knows Invisibility Purge and Anticipate Teleportation, and has learned the Craft Wondrous Items feat.
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They may have bought the means of casting it again and again on the Waterboss from the fey- Anticipate Teleportaion is one hour per level, so a level 8 Charter will have to spend 3 Fourth level spells over a day. Maybe an item? (though emanation range is 5ft per CL)
 
BeepSmile said:
@Azel "Furthermore, there are some rather weighty plans that I have in mind. Reforms that could make or break entire economies, but might be necessary far too soon in this changing world, no matter how much I wished to let these plans sit until a time of peace of stability"

You know, that would be the kind of sentence that might, if I were a man in the Lakechief's position, give me reason to ask "what reforms!?"

Don't suppose you would mind sharing what you mean by that with the class? :)
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"The opening of inter-planar markets and the availability of magic for the purpose of doing business has profound implications on not only the economic development of our world, but also on how business is done in the first place. Hostile actors might use this disruption to do severe damage to any economy that relies heavily on trade. I would rather not speak about the details, since like the plans for an invasion, Divination might be used to learn these things from prophecy and the solution isn't ready to be implemented yet."
 
Azel said:
"The opening of inter-planar markets and the availability of magic for the purpose of doing business has profound implications on not only the economic development of our world, but also on how business is done in the first place. Hostile actors might use this disruption to do severe damage to any economy that relies heavily on trade. I would rather not speak about the details, since like the plans for an invasion, Divination might be used to learn these things from prophecy and the solution isn't ready to be implemented yet."
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I appreciate the time you took to reply. Thank you.

Also, to a lesser extent, Teleportation Circles, I suppose?
 
BeepSmile said:
I appreciate the time you took to reply. Thank you.

Also, to a lesser extent, Teleportation Circles, I suppose?
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That's an entirely different problem, just like trains and railways.

The main problem is the entire Planetosi economy doing a Colonial Spain and going tits up due to the massive influx of precious metals.
 
BeepSmile said:
I appreciate the time you took to reply. Thank you.

Also, to a lesser extent, Teleportation Circles, I suppose?
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What about huge gates that help transport entire caravans of goods at once? I am pretty sure they cost tens of thousands of gold though.

Personally I like the idea of completely destroying westerosi economy to fuck with the nobles then I think oh wait we want that place lets not fuck it up too much. Ill be happy as soon as I learn that our westerosian enemies cause a demon invasion for us to save everyone from.
 
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firefrog600 said:
What about huge gates that help transport entire caravans of goods at once? I am pretty sure they cost tens of thousands of gold though.

Personally I like the idea of completely destroying westerosi economy to fuck with the nobles then I think oh wait we want that place lets not fuck it up too much. Ill be happy as soon as I learn that our westerosian enemies cause a demon invasion for us to save everyone from.
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Those huge gates you have in mind are probably the aforementioned Teleportation Circles, a ninth level spell, and compared to the economic value they represent for the holder of the end, 10k is nothing. I mean, if we were inclined, we could probably buy scrolls and permanence them, right now.

In economic conflict, it is never the wealthy that suffer. The destruction of the pathetic, anemic, mewling thing that pretends to be an economy will unleash enough demons, daemons and to a lesser extent, devils, thanks to the devastation of the livelihood of peasants that Westeros will enter something like a death spiral, becoming unsalvageable, preventing a proper defence against the others*, and possibly dragging shitholePlanetos to the pit.

You are asking for more damage in an already falling apart system (see food not reaching KL via road). There is no need to wish for more fiends, we already have devils** to kill.

*and we need those blood-bagspeasants so they can help in our "how much blood does it take to drown the Old Gods" experiment.

**though I much prefer fighting demons or daemons, they're less... plotty. Plotty enemies are annoying.
 
Azel said:
That's an entirely different problem, just like trains and railways.

The main problem is the entire Planetosi economy doing a Colonial Spain and going tits up due to the massive influx of precious metals.
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"Enough wealth to end all trade in the Narrow Sea", was how Viserys put his appraisal of the displayed wealth of one noble house, I think? That's a nice way of saying upteen-infinity fucktonnes of gold.

Also, you read about Musa I of Mali - Wikipedia ? I remembered skimming about him years ago, tbh, I'd be surprised if you were unaware of the chap.*

*my knowledge is limited to his wiki page, I freely (but in small text,) admit.

My, point, now that I've typed enough extraneous noise to buy focus-time on the topic** is that this is probably something that Ocean-archon has already considered if he knows about teleportation circles.
A good ally would a) explain teleport circles, b) (apologising as we are sure that the long term consequences are apparent, but the seriousness of the subject matter demands we make no assumptions in the name of politeness) explain how that will lead to the draining of all non city civilization, c) how teleport circles + extraplanar markets could lead to the end of hinterlands, as a compounded effect of and extraplanar trading. (for example, magitech-vertical farming), allowing monsters to grow in the wild places better than they are now. The citizens outside Braavos need someone to protect them, just as much as the citizens inside.

** I'm sleepy as a... tired person, I need to keep on the same general topic before I start worrying that the ships in the Ib Sea are being sunk by mind flayers, or that our fire-whale fiend has been killed by someone. For example, Relath.

Song whale isn't a common draconic term for fire-whale, is it!?!? @DragonParadox ?
 
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That's underestimating demons. The Abyss has enough resources to launch a thousand shitty Xanatos Gambits. And the main danger from a literal thousand shitty plots isn't their likelihood for success, but the amount of harm all of the ones that aren't caught can do, even if, by definition, they fail to achieve their aim due to circumstances and incompetence. But that doesn't really matter, since indulging oneself is a major component to all of them, and thus a means to an end for them.

Baator, on the other hand, utilizes more tightly focused and narrow schemes to actually pull the thread through the loop. If even one gets accomplished as planned, you can guarantee far ranging consequences that aren't easily fixable.

Tl;Dr, whatever blend of fiend you're facing, they're like vermin. You have to have a comprehensive pest deterrent and control apparatus set up to constantly sweep for the bugs to squash. Growing lax leads to a more-or-less permanent infestation.

And yes, it amuses me to compare devils and demons with insects. :V
 
Crake said:
That's underestimating demons. The Abyss has enough resources to launch a thousand shitty Xanatos Gambits. And the main danger from a literal thousand shitty plots isn't their likelihood for success, but the amount of harm all of the ones that aren't caught can do, even if, by definition, they fail to achieve their aim due to circumstances and incompetence. But that doesn't really matter, since indulging oneself is a major component to all of them, and thus a means to an end for them.

Baator, on the other hand, utilizes more tightly focused and narrow schemes to actually pull the thread through the loop. If even one gets accomplished as planned, you can guarantee far ranging consequences that aren't easily fixable.

Tl;Dr, whatever blend of fiend you're facing, they're like vermin. You have to have a comprehensive pest deterrent and control apparatus set up to constantly sweep for the bugs to squash. Growing lax leads to a more-or-less permanent infestation.

And yes, it amuses me to compare devils and demons with insects. :V
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Ya know... Devils are ambition, which is hope, the antithesis of daemons (I think), whereas demons are... nihilistic indulgence, dragged out for as long as possible.
Devils oppose despair, they build with hope for the future*, demons flee from despair, or, they are displair that is in denial of itself.

Does that make sense? I'm not sure if it was coherent.

*HOW INSPIRING! I SUPPORT DEVILS (IN SOME VERY OCCASIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES) ! #highutilityevil #highutilitygood #prettydammsimilar
 
egoo said:
Honestly, I kind of want to get this class of hers taught in Scholarum.
If any place can deal with it's pre-requisites and make sure people survive unscathed - it's there.

And it doesn't really matter if it's better/worse than what we already have

With how current scholarum system works, every class available will just give us a few more mages every 3 months, not taking away from numbers of other classes trained.
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I'd personally rather stick with the regular Wizard class. Safety and optimization aside, Alysande's class requires the Silver Eye minor artifact to awaken in the first place, so we'd basically have to pay more to make our own just to do something we already do better with Wizard. More than that, Alysande got lucky (DP told us she could have easily just went insane instead of awakening magic since she repeatedly pushed her wisdom to zero mechanically).

I can understand curiosity, but I can't fathom actually wanting the class for our magelings. I could be proven wrong and have it turn out there's something absolutely amazing about Alysande's class, but I highly doubt it'll beat out Wizard in the end.
 
Duesal said:
I'd personally rather stick with the regular Wizard class. Safety and optimization aside, Alysande's class requires the Silver Eye minor artifact to awaken in the first place, so we'd basically have to pay more to make our own just to do something we already do better with Wizard. More than that, Alysande got lucky (DP told us she could have easily just went insane instead of awakening magic since she repeatedly pushed her wisdom to zero mechanically).

I can understand curiosity, but I can't fathom actually wanting the class for our magelings. I could be proven wrong and have it turn out there's something absolutely amazing about Alysande's class, but I highly doubt it'll beat out Wizard in the end.
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Yeah, I'm impressed, but not wanting that for our magleings. And insanity is a big trigger for Viserys compared to your average mage.

I just want to see the class rules for her Variant.

I really want to see them.
 
BeepSmile said:
Yeah, I'm impressed, but not wanting that for our magleings. And insanity is a big trigger for Viserys compared to your average mage.

I just want to see the class rules for her Variant.

I really want to see them.
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I do understand the curiosity. We've been bugging DP about her class for months now. Hell, we should already have the details. Alysande spent two weeks learning in the Scholarum.
 
Duesal said:
I do understand the curiosity. We've been bugging DP about her class for months now. Hell, we should already have the details. Alysande spent two weeks learning in the Scholarum.
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Just make sure that we don't leave the fish-piss-master without a promissory note to be told, plz. I need to stop being awake now.

It has become... unpleasant.
 
Can somebody explain to me again why I'm designing a Fiat Currency system that is backed by currency pinning between us, the Opaline Vault and Amun Khelisk?

:confused:
 
How can you exploit an economic system that doesn't exist?

Kinda like building sandcastles to kick them down later.
 
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