[X][Research1] Cheap Steel (29/60) [Industrial][Open]
[X][Research2] Thermodynamics (10/???) [Science][Industrial][Open]
[X][Research2] Thermodynamics (10/???) [Science][Industrial][Open]
Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization
36 to 33. We need 2 more people to switch from electro to thermo!
Please, don't leave RP on the table!
Please, don't leave RP on the table!
- Location
- Staring into the void
[X][Research1] Cheap Steel (29/60) [Industrial][Open]
[X][Research2] Thermodynamics (10/???) [Science][Industrial][Open]
[X][Research2] Thermodynamics (10/???) [Science][Industrial][Open]
35 to 35! We need 1 more vote to tip the scales!
Alright people, effortpost time.
[X][Research1] Cheap Steel (29/60) [Industrial][Open]
[X][Research2] Thermodynamics (10/???) [Science][Industrial][Open]
The reason why we want to take this option, over say, Electromagnetism or Palaeontology is because of the [Industrial] tag on both options. Cheap steel is an IC cost reducer, so getting it as soon as possible is absolutely paramount (for reference, the Bessemer process reduced the price of steel from £40 per long ton to £6, a decrease of over 6x). Following this train of thought, to get Cheap Steel as soon as possible, we'd have to do two Support Industrial Research actions in the main turn (which is also before tech iteration). It would be a waste of the potential of these options to not have as many [Industrial] tagged techs going at the same time when we do them, as each industrial tech gains the bonus from support industrial individually - in essence, having two slotted industrial techs doubles the effectiveness of the boosters!
Two industrial boosters, plus academy iteration, has the chance of completely finishing thermodynamics in a single turn.
Now, what does thermodynamics unlock?
Thermodynamics is a branch of science that can be given many definitions, but for our purposes, during the industrial revolution, we can define it as the study of how heat transfer and temperature translate to mechanical work and the generation of energy. This field of science was birthed in the steam engines of Carnot, Joule and Watt, for the sake of making them more efficient, and produce more work for the amount of energy input. It was from thermodynamics that the concept of conservation of energy was born, and some of the most fundamental ways in which chemical and physical reactions occur are modelled through it.
For the sake of the quest, we can assume that themodynamics leads to better steam engines and chemical production - in other words, thermodynamics leads to more and better quality IC, which is the god-stat of Paths of Industrialisation (it's even in the name!). IC leads to more SoL, more Edu... yadda yadda yadda. We've all heard that before. More IC, and cheaper IC actions = all the yes.
As for the issue of timing, if we finish cheap steel immediately due to the research boosters, we can slot in another valuable tech before our academies iterate - something like Nitro Explosives, Vaccines, or indeed, Electromagnetism or Telegraphy (which would incidentally finish with the academy iteration.)
The other two options for this tech draw simply don't have that same benefit, at least not immediately. Electromagnetism, whilst a fundamental science of the same theoretical importance as thermodynamics, has a [Science] tag, and thus does not benefit from the Support Industrial Research actions that we need to take. We'd be better served in slotting it when we have multiple science options slotted to benefit from the appropriate actions. This would likely be in the next phase, when we have one of the above techs also slotted at the same time.
Palaeontology is... non-essential. Dinosaurs and fossils are cool, I agree, but it's really not a priority over all of the fundamentals that we need to pick up.
tl;dr - going thermodynamics is more efficient in every way possible, leading to more IC, and more RP gained for the actions that we are going to take.
[X][Research1] Cheap Steel (29/60) [Industrial][Open]
[X][Research2] Thermodynamics (10/???) [Science][Industrial][Open]
The reason why we want to take this option, over say, Electromagnetism or Palaeontology is because of the [Industrial] tag on both options. Cheap steel is an IC cost reducer, so getting it as soon as possible is absolutely paramount (for reference, the Bessemer process reduced the price of steel from £40 per long ton to £6, a decrease of over 6x). Following this train of thought, to get Cheap Steel as soon as possible, we'd have to do two Support Industrial Research actions in the main turn (which is also before tech iteration). It would be a waste of the potential of these options to not have as many [Industrial] tagged techs going at the same time when we do them, as each industrial tech gains the bonus from support industrial individually - in essence, having two slotted industrial techs doubles the effectiveness of the boosters!
Two industrial boosters, plus academy iteration, has the chance of completely finishing thermodynamics in a single turn.
Now, what does thermodynamics unlock?
Thermodynamics is a branch of science that can be given many definitions, but for our purposes, during the industrial revolution, we can define it as the study of how heat transfer and temperature translate to mechanical work and the generation of energy. This field of science was birthed in the steam engines of Carnot, Joule and Watt, for the sake of making them more efficient, and produce more work for the amount of energy input. It was from thermodynamics that the concept of conservation of energy was born, and some of the most fundamental ways in which chemical and physical reactions occur are modelled through it.
For the sake of the quest, we can assume that themodynamics leads to better steam engines and chemical production - in other words, thermodynamics leads to more and better quality IC, which is the god-stat of Paths of Industrialisation (it's even in the name!). IC leads to more SoL, more Edu... yadda yadda yadda. We've all heard that before. More IC, and cheaper IC actions = all the yes.
As for the issue of timing, if we finish cheap steel immediately due to the research boosters, we can slot in another valuable tech before our academies iterate - something like Nitro Explosives, Vaccines, or indeed, Electromagnetism or Telegraphy (which would incidentally finish with the academy iteration.)
The other two options for this tech draw simply don't have that same benefit, at least not immediately. Electromagnetism, whilst a fundamental science of the same theoretical importance as thermodynamics, has a [Science] tag, and thus does not benefit from the Support Industrial Research actions that we need to take. We'd be better served in slotting it when we have multiple science options slotted to benefit from the appropriate actions. This would likely be in the next phase, when we have one of the above techs also slotted at the same time.
Palaeontology is... non-essential. Dinosaurs and fossils are cool, I agree, but it's really not a priority over all of the fundamentals that we need to pick up.
tl;dr - going thermodynamics is more efficient in every way possible, leading to more IC, and more RP gained for the actions that we are going to take.
Last edited:
Inserted tally
@Academia Nut quick, close the vote!
We assume its nonessential, we dont definitively know if it is or isnt or even the effect of getting it is outside of prestige. Paleontology actually requires a lot of geology, chemistry, and biology as well as a bunch of little things from other fields. Its very possible that certain critical techs/social might be gated behind it as a result. Right now its not the priority but it should be done soonish because for all we know oil tech or something just as important could be gated by it.
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
Wouldn't oil would be more gated behind thermodynamics, mechanical mining, and industrial fractioning? That seems like the three techs we would need to obtain it en masse, refine it, and put it to use.
There's a lot of 'ifs' to that statement. It doesn't really hold a candle to the likes of Nitro Explosives, Vaccines, Telegraphs, Electrochemistry... I could go on. All of these have tangible, hard benefits that we can easily predict. Oil tech is much more likely locked behind Industrial Fractioning and Distillation (0/???) [Chemistry][Industrial][Open],
We're expecting a hot war with multiple GPs in the coming turns, both over the Suez and the TKR. We need those hard benefits.
Last edited:
Honestly surprised that y'all didn't sell weapons to the CCP as well as the Hung.
Probably shouldn't abandon the New World to the Sketch and Nohon; there lies future problems.
VOTE
[X][Research1] Cheap Steel (29/60) [Industrial][Open]
[X][Research2] Thermodynamics (10/???) [Science][Industrial][Open]
Cheap Steel is a necessity for everything from Rails to Steamships to mass production of pharmaceuticals to mass production of explosives.
Thermodynamics boosts the efficiency of industry in general and steam engines in particular, and possibly unlocks refrigeration, which is a big deal for our bloc of major food producers.
Probably shouldn't abandon the New World to the Sketch and Nohon; there lies future problems.
VOTE
[X][Research1] Cheap Steel (29/60) [Industrial][Open]
[X][Research2] Thermodynamics (10/???) [Science][Industrial][Open]
Cheap Steel is a necessity for everything from Rails to Steamships to mass production of pharmaceuticals to mass production of explosives.
Thermodynamics boosts the efficiency of industry in general and steam engines in particular, and possibly unlocks refrigeration, which is a big deal for our bloc of major food producers.
Im not saying that it holds a candel to other techs at all or not. what i am saying is that we have no idea how the techs relate to eachother or whats gated behind what. We can make educated guesses but we dont actually know.
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
Speaking of oil, with much of the world's supply of oil presumably locked up in the DC, the Khemetri, the western BS, and eventually New Hes and CCP, what's that going to do to geopolitics when you basically have all the world's supply in more or less the same bloc (perhaps barring production going to the Sketch from not-Canada or whoever owns west-central Greater Khem)? Coal-derived oil is probably not realistic to compete with abundant petroleum from the ground.
KlinkerKing
Man bites dog?
- Location
- The Lion's Den
Tread very, very carefully around the nations with oil. Alas, our game ends before that really becomes a thing.
Opec on steroids. We all make more money than god.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Germany, Italy and Japan did a certain thing with the goal of acquiring lots of vital resources they didn't have. What was it again?
To be honest i dont see the ccp surviving much longer unless something happens to distract new hes, the ump and the sketch from tearing it to pieces . Their one port is too vulnerable right now and they rely on outside support at the moment so if that goes they go. The only reason they have gotten as far as they have was due to surprise, thats not happening again.
I think Hes is gonna keep them alive as a foil to New Hes. Hes has basically learned that without an ally in the area any invasion will fall flat.
I suspect that this will cause Sketch/Hes problems when the Sketch try to move steel production into the area and empower their holding and the UMP.
This. GM is within his rights to juggle mineral deposits like he did geography.
Not to mention that Not!North America was a major oil producer in the first half of the century, and the UPM seems to maintain control of many of those areas.
EDIT
Given as the UPM is pretty racist, what might be a regular war for others would be a war to the knife for any invasion of the CCP. And the CCP have almost certainly been aware of those vulnerabilities, and been attempting to address them.
Either way, we do need to stick an oar in there; we've let the Sketch and the Hes muck around there for too long. Plus, there are those Nohon holdings on the West Coast to poke by proxy.
Last edited:
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
The Hes did train the CCP army, so yeah. Regarding the Sketch.... I can actually see them try to balance the CCP and UMP so that one doesn't become more powerful than the other. Try being the keyword here, of course.