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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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keenscythe said:
We might need more social techs too.

@Academia Nut With all our DOs is our skill at Diplomacy ahead of the other GPs? Or is that represented by our high Trust stat?
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Nah, we'd be in a pretty good position to just ask at that point. It'd be just like offering to help build a trade route to connect their trade routes to your own. Hard to complain much about it, since you'll be rolling in dough when finished.
 
pbluekan said:
Personally, I'd rather leave the "sell guns" to parliament which can do it for 0-pw. There isn't much reason for us to sacrifice two actions in order to push it through.
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There is a very good reason to.

2 PW + >10 Trust: +1 Espionage, -3 Temp Espionage
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Doing this twice in the midturn bumps us up to 10 espionage, which unlocks this:

2 PW + >10 Espionage: +1 Trust, -1 Temp Trust
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Which is an incredible action compared to the normal version of it:

2 PW: +1 Trust, -3 Temp Trust
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This represents an incredible jump in our diplomatic capabilities whilst providing crucial intelligence, which we'll need to counter the Sketch and their alliance in the coming years.
 
[X] International Politics

[X] [Security] 1 PW - Improve Security funding (-3 temp SoL, +1 Espionage)
 
Yeah, @Sivantic I think the guns might be a better use with Hung than the PT. We can use the temp trust to buff our espionage to 10, then cascade from there to keep our trust soaring from then on. Plus, Hung need the guns right now, and it should help distract the Nohon for a while, which can be useful for buying us more time.

Edit: then again, we'd have to use bonds to pay for the DOs... so maybe not?

@Academia Nut are the Nohon likely to react if we sell guns to the Hung?
 
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Citino said:
Yeah, @Sivantic I think the guns might be a better use with Hung than the PT. We can use the temp trust to buff our espionage to 10, then cascade from there to keep our trust soaring from then on. Plus, Hung need the guns right now, and it should help distract the Nohon for a while, which can be useful for buying us more time.

@Academia Nut are the Nohon likely to react if we sell guns to the Hung?
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Xepheria said:
There is a very good reason to.



Doing this twice in the midturn bumps us up to 10 espionage, which unlocks this:



Which is an incredible action compared to the normal version of it:



This represents an incredible jump in our diplomatic capabilities whilst providing crucial intelligence, which we'll need to counter the Sketch and their alliance in the coming years.
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2 PW + >10 Espionage: +1 Trust, -1 Temp Trust
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I cannot overstate just how good this action is. It's a net change of +1 Perm, +0 Temp Trust, since every point of a permanent stat gives an equivalent raise in temp. That's right. It leaves us on the same temp trust as when we used it. The only limitation to it is the PW cost, which, in the new system, is much less of a concern.

It's absolutely incredible.
 
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[X] International Politics

[X] [Security] 1 PW - Improve Security funding (-3 temp SoL, +1 Espionage)
Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Jun 4, 2018 at 6:16 PM, finished with 140 posts and 48 votes.
  • [X] International Politics
    [X] [Security] 1 PW - Improve Security funding (-3 temp SoL, +1 Espionage)
    [X] [Security] 1 PW - Improve Security funding (+3 Bonds, +1 Espionage)
    [X] Plan Furnaces, Day and Night with happiness
    -[X] Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC
    -[X] Issue Bonds: 1 PW - +3 temp SoL for +3 Bonds
    -[X] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
    [X] Plan Green Industry! Mark II
    -[X] Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC
    -[X] Found Kale-Yllthon Railway Company - 1 PW, -2 IC, founds company to automatically expand <X> arterial line each turn, IC refunded at end of project
    -[X] Construct Sewer - 1 PW: -4 temp Army, +1 Sewer
    -[X] Construct Sewer - 1 PW: -2 temp Army, -2 temp IC, +1 Sewer
    -[X] Build Espionage Network - 1 PW: -1 Temp Trust, +2 Temp Espionage (Kielmyr)
    [X] [Security] 0 PW - Keep digging (-1 temp Espionage, internal security sweep continues)
    [X] Plan Furnaces, Day and Night
    -[X] Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC
    -[X] Build Espionage Network - 1 PW: -1 Temp Trust, +2 Temp Espionage (Kielmyr)
    -[X] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
    -[X] Develop Railroads - 1 PW: -4 temp Armies, +1 Max IC, +1 Max Development, +1 Railroads
    [X] Plan Furnaces, Day and Night
    -[X] Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC
    -[X] Construct Sewer - 1 PW: -4 temp Army, +1 Sewer
    -[X] Build Espionage Network - 1 PW: -1 Temp Trust, +2 Temp Espionage (Kielmyr)
    -[X] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
    [X] Plan Get to Work!
    -[X] Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC
    -[X] Construct Sewer - 1 PW: -4 temp IC, +1 Sewer
    -[X] Construct Sewer - 1 PW: -4 temp Army, +1 Sewer
    -[X] Construct Sewer - 1 PW: -2 temp Army, -2 temp IC, +1 Sewer
    [X] International Politics
    -[X] Diplomatic Outreach - 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust - Kielmyr
    -[X] Diplomatic Outreach - 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust - Behryvar
    -[X] Trans-Kyberi Railway - 1 PW, -4 Temp Army, +1 Max Development, (4 more uses to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status, 0/30 Actions to Completion) (0 PW for the first use a turn)
    -[X] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
    -[X] Promote Trade - 1 PW: -3 Temp Trust, +2 Temp SoL (Max [Navies] usage per turn) Hung
    [X] [Security] 0 PW - Point the People at the Sketch or Nohon or something (-3 temp Consciousness, +1 temp Militancy, ???)
    [X] Plan Engines Full Steam Ahead!
    -[X] Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC
    -[X] Trans-Kyberi Railway - 1 PW, -4 Temp Army, +1 Max Development, (4 more uses to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status, 0/30 Actions to Completion) (0 PW for the first use a turn)
    -[X] Found Kale-Yllthon Railway Company - 1 PW, -2 IC, founds company to automatically expand <X> arterial line each turn, IC refunded at end of project
    -[X] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
    -[X] Build Espionage Network - 1 PW: -1 Temp Trust, +2 Temp Espionage (Kielmyr)
    [X] Plan Furnaces, Day and Night with rails build by the army
    -[X] Rapid Develop Industry - 1 PW: +2 IC and Active Development, +1 Pollution, -2 Temp IC
    -[X] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
    -[X] Trans-Kyberi Railway - 0 PW, -4 temp Army, +1 Max Development, (4 more uses to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status, 0/30 Actions to Completion) (0 PW for the first use a turn)
    -[X] Diplomatic Outreach - 2 PW: +1 Trust, -3 Temp Trust: officer exchanges with Kielmyr and get them closer to our kingdom
    [X] [Security] 0 PW - Exile some rabble rousers to Kyberi (-1 temp Consciousness, -1 temp Militancy, Settle Kyberi action used)​

    [X] Plan Furnaces, Day and Night with happiness ​
    [X] Its The Marshmallow Test People
    -[X] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
    -[X]Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW x2
    -[X]Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW x3
    -[X]Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW x4
    -[X]Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW x5
    -[X] Develop Industry - 1 PW + Innovation 10+: +1 IC and Active Development, -2 Temp IC
    -[X] Trans-Kyberi Railway - 1 PW, -4 Temp Army, +1 Max Development, (4 more uses to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status, 0/30 Actions to Completion) (0 PW for the first use a turn)
    [X] [Security] 1 PW - Improve Security funding (-3 temp SoL, +1 Espionage)​

    [X] International Politics ​
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Wee, back on a actual computer

First, @Redium, My plan uses 6 Political Will, it just does not show on the Tally because I did not add markers to the multiples I think :/ (Will fix that though)

As to the other, I can be convinced that we should switch Behryvar with Ochruhr as they are indeed a pain and we want to stop that. On the other hand, we really do not want to have Tortun mad at us again :/

Second, @Xepheria The idea was not replacing The Promote Trade action with the Sell Guns, but combining them

[X] International Politics
-[X] Diplomatic Outreach - 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust - Kielmyr
-[X] Diplomatic Outreach - 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust - Behryvar
-[X] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
-[X] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
-[X] Sell Obsolete Military Equipment -1 PW: Requires buyer, -4 temp Armies, +1 Rearm progress, potential other benefits based on buyer -Hung
-[X] Promote Trade - 1 PW: -3 Temp Trust, +2 Temp SoL (Max [Navies] usage per turn) -Hung
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As synergy

As to your desire to be able to reach Diplomacy and Espionage 10+, I share it as well. However trying to rush it is unnecessary. As of right now, winning combination will leave us at

Culture
Consciousness 3 (15)
Standard of Living 7 (16)

Diplomacy
Trust 11 (8)
Espionage 8 (8)

The stats will iterate, then we can plans

Consciousness 3 (9)
Standard of Living 7 (12)

Diplomacy
Trust 11 (9)
Espionage 8 (8)

Which means that we once again have a buffer we can use. So all the parties will need to do is a single Diplomatic Outreach and we have Trust 10.

Any other questions comments or concerns anyone?
 
Sivantic said:
As synergy

As to your desire to be able to reach Diplomacy and Espionage 10+, I share it as well. However trying to rush it is unnecessary. As of right now, winning combination will leave us at
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I'm strongly in favor of this change. The strong support for Hung should help boost them a lot, and let's them advance both their economy and military at the same time, so they don't wind up like the Khem or BS, and find themselves tilted too far to one side.
 
Sivantic said:
Wee, back on a actual computer

First, @Redium, My plan uses 6 Political Will, it just does not show on the Tally because I did not add markers to the multiples I think :/ (Will fix that though)

As to the other, I can be convinced that we should switch Behryvar with Ochruhr as they are indeed a pain and we want to stop that. On the other hand, we really do not want to have Tortun mad at us again :/

Second, @Xepheria The idea was not replacing The Promote Trade action with the Sell Guns, but combining them



As synergy

As to your desire to be able to reach Diplomacy and Espionage 10+, I share it as well. However trying to rush it is unnecessary. As of right now, winning combination will leave us at

Culture
Consciousness 3 (15)
Standard of Living 7 (16)

Diplomacy
Trust 11 (8)
Espionage 8 (8)

The stats will iterate, then we can plans

Consciousness 3 (9)
Standard of Living 7 (12)

Diplomacy
Trust 11 (9)
Espionage 8 (8)

Which means that we once again have a buffer we can use. So all the parties will need to do is a single Diplomatic Outreach and we have Trust 10.

Any other questions comments or concerns anyone?
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I definitely prefer it to the previous iteration. A lot more focused.

It does delay our information networks in Sketch and Nohon, and the cheap trust gains we'd get, but it's not the worst thing in the world.
 
Okay, to make it clearer

@Romv, @ExNihilo, @Timewinders, @pbluekan, @Karugus, @Himmelhand, @sam5447, @Citino, @noliar, @Alliterate, @godofsmallthings, @Kiba, @Fouredged Sword, @HanEmpire, @tryrar, @keenscythe, @seraph12, @loserthree, @kalugin, @Killer_Whale, @liberty90, @DakkaMania, @VoidZero, @Oshha, @Pyre

There has been a proposal to change the original plan

[] International Politics
-[] Diplomatic Outreach - 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust - Kielmyr
-[] Diplomatic Outreach - 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust - Behryvar
-[] Trans-Kyberi Railway - 1 PW, -4 Temp Army, +1 Max Development, (4 more uses to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status, 0/30 Actions to Completion) (0 PW for the first use a turn)
-[] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
-[] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW x2
-[] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW x3
-[] Promote Trade - 1 PW: -3 Temp Trust, +2 Temp SoL (Max [Navies] usage per turn) Hung

to

[] International Politics
-[] Diplomatic Outreach - 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust - Kielmyr
-[] Diplomatic Outreach - 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust - Behryvar
-[] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
-[] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
-[] Sell Obsolete Military Equipment -1 PW: Requires buyer, -4 temp Armies, +1 Rearm progress, potential other benefits based on buyer -Hung
-[] Promote Trade - 1 PW: -3 Temp Trust, +2 Temp SoL (Max [Navies] usage per turn) -Hung


Drops a Rail and Political Support in favor of Selling Military Equipment to Hung

If you agree, rate this post Informative.

If more than half of the voters agree, I will make the switch.

EDIT: I will check back in an hour and halfish, as that is when AN usually locks or such.

FURTHER EDIT: Okay, vote closed, change passed.
 
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I agree, but I would note we HAVE the temp IC to perform a TKR action at 0 PW. That is one of the few rails worth poking at without founding a company because 0 PW make it a deal and removing Hinterlands is great. The factions will still start with 8 temp IC and considering the liberals will be expanding IC it should be plenty.

This is my perfered vote

[] International Politics
-[] Diplomatic Outreach - 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust - Kielmyr
-[] Diplomatic Outreach - 1 PW: -1 Temp SoL, +2 Temp Trust - Behryvar
-[] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
-[] Build Political Support - 1 PW + Happiness >7: +2 PW
-[] Sell Obsolete Military Equipment -1 PW: Requires buyer, -4 temp Armies, +1 Rearm progress, potential other benefits based on buyer -Hung
-[] Promote Trade - 1 PW: -3 Temp Trust, +2 Temp SoL (Max [Navies] usage per turn) -Hung
-[] Trans-Kyberi Railway - 1 PW, -4 Temp IC, +1 Max Development, (4 more uses to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status, 0/30 Actions to Completion) (0 PW for the first use a turn)
 
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Sivantic said:
-[] Trans-Kyberi Railway - 1 PW, -4 Temp Army, +1 Max Development, (4 more uses to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status, 0/30 Actions to Completion) (0 PW for the first use a turn)
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Isn't this still free? Any reason to drop it?

Maybe the -8 total temp armies...

Still, I support selling arms to the Hung.
 
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