Mind, this doesn't even take into account things like "does this spell produce air, or does it just move it along?" and "does it allow for "recoil" inside its own length if it meets resistance in the other end?" and "how does the forces involved look like if it does?" and "by how much would the spell accelerate water going through it?" and many others.

There is a lot going on in this set up.

Now, is this the spell? How did you get the speed from that?

This particular spell seems very hard to translate to RL physics due the fact that any creature that fails their save (and just here the problem starts) gets pushed the same amount, 20ft, regardless of size and weight. So, they get pushed 20ft, but how long does that take? Does the spell exert different forces for differently-sized creatures? What happens when you fill the entire flow with water? Does the spell even work?

Hell, creature with a particular type of soul aren't affected.

Assuming you are propelling wind at ~36 m/s, that's ~72kg/s of wind.
Weather – d20PFSRD

The damage is consistent with a hurricane, so I've picked the lowest edge of that at 80 mph.
Why not shoot for something like a constant Favorable Winds spell?
Because that needs sails and the idea was to get a vessel that doesn't need any, so that we can use it for a submarine.
 
*peaks into thread*

*sees fluid calcs happening*

So uhh does anyone want to grab a Nobel Prize by figuring out how to solve the Navier-Stokes equation without negating like half of the variables?

But I honestly agree with TNE's wariness on trying to equate spell effects with physical effects. One of the examples I can think of is Grease, which explicitly is not flammable. So despite the spell name and material component, it doesn't seem to actually create a physical material but just makes a surface slippery as if you had applied butter all over it.
 
@Azel Ignoring the metaphysical aspects of the spell, you are proposing something that moves ~77 kg of air in a second be able to move 63000 kg of water in the same second.

sees fluid calcs happening*
Yeah, that's a chair that makes people cry tears of blood.
But I honestly agree with TNE's wariness on trying to equate spell effects with physical effects. One of the examples I can think of is Grease, which explicitly is not flammable. So despite the spell name and material component, it doesn't seem to actually create a physical material but just makes a surface slippery as if you had applied butter all over it.
Or creates a non-flammable type of grease ;)
 
Ranger is cruelty to inflict tho. No way we can get Theon to teach her to clange to Myistic Ranger?

Theon Greyjoy! He's so awesome he teaches the children of the forest!

Come on! You can't tell me you don't wanna see that happen?
 
*peaks into thread*

*sees fluid calcs happening*

So uhh does anyone want to grab a Nobel Prize by figuring out how to solve the Navier-Stokes equation without negating like half of the variables?

But I honestly agree with TNE's wariness on trying to equate spell effects with physical effects. One of the examples I can think of is Grease, which explicitly is not flammable. So despite the spell name and material component, it doesn't seem to actually create a physical material but just makes a surface slippery as if you had applied butter all over it.
There are plenty of non-flammable lubricants. Just saying.
 
Ranger is cruelty to inflict tho. No way we can get Theon to teach her to clange to Myistic Ranger?

Theon Greyjoy! He's so awesome he teaches the children of the forest!

Come on! You can't tell me you don't wanna see that happen?
I'm with Artemis on this one. If there's a way to convert her to Druid then we should pounce on it. We spend forever shuffling our feet before we realized that Reva and Liset were even options for druids, and now with Soft Strider we could immediately get a CL 6 druid if we work a bit at it.

@Artemis1992, we have the names of all the Thanadaemons. We can talk to Soft Strider, see if she's interested in the class change, then bleed on our Planar Binding tree to get Bloodraven's attention to get him on board. It'd definitely be worth the sacrifices.

That said, I'm not quite sure how weapon proficiency works with druids.
 
@Azel Ignoring the metaphysical aspects of the spell, you are proposing something that moves ~77 kg in a second of air will be able to move 63000 kg of water in the same second.
The spell can also throw around creatures weighing significantly more then 77 kg.

Look. D&D is the same system where clockwork, alchemy, pulleys & levers and ill-defined magic are all viable means to built a battlemech.

I'm merely trying to ground my ideas in existing spell effects. Control Water let's you mess around with 6 tons of water per level too, so I don't see the issue. To say nothing about effects like Wall of Stone or our Stone Shape shenanigans.
 
I'm with Artemis on this one. If there's a way to convert her to Druid then we should pounce on it. We spend forever shuffling our feet before we realized that Reva and Liset were even options for druids, and now with Soft Strider we could immediately get a CL 6 druid if we work a bit at it.

@Artemis1992, we have the names of all the Thanadaemons. We can talk to Soft Strider, see if she's interested in the class change, then bleed on our Planar Binding tree to get Bloodraven's attention to get him on board. It'd definitely be worth the sacrifices.

That said, I'm not quite sure how weapon proficiency works with druids.

100% behind this if we can achieve it, totally worth it.
 
I'm with Artemis on this one. If there's a way to convert her to Druid then we should pounce on it. We spend forever shuffling our feet before we realized that Reva and Liset were even options for druids, and now with Soft Strider we could immediately get a CL 6 druid if we work a bit at it.

@Artemis1992, we have the names of all the Thanadaemons. We can talk to Soft Strider, see if she's interested in the class change, then bleed on our Planar Binding tree to get Bloodraven's attention to get him on board. It'd definitely be worth the sacrifices.

That said, I'm not quite sure how weapon proficiency works with druids.
Druids can use a specific group of druidic weapons from the start, for others they have to buy the proficiency feats, or in our case train them.
Metallic stuff causes issues with their magic, or maybe that was onpy for armor, but bows aren't metal so no problem.
 
Druids can use a specific group of druidic weapons from the start, for others they have to buy the proficiency feats, or in our case train them.
Metallic stuff causes issues with their magic, or maybe that was onpy for armor, but bows aren't metal so no problem.
We're not going to have an issue with metal stuff to begin with, Children of the Forest have a racial taboo against all metal. It's why we had to set aside the Bloodstone Amulet of PfE for Soft Strider -- all other Amulets of PfE are fluffed with using silver, whereas this one was just stone. Either way, she has dibs on the next dragonhide armor we get our claws on.

As for weapons, well, she has weapon-focus feats for her longbow. She might be able to keep those if she decides to switch.
 
We're not going to have an issue with metal stuff to begin with, Children of the Forest have a racial taboo against all metal. It's why we had to set aside the Bloodstone Amulet of PfE for Soft Strider -- all other Amulets of PfE are fluffed with using silver, whereas this one was just stone. Either way, she has dibs on the next dragonhide armor we get our claws on.

As for weapons, well, she has weapon-focus feats for her longbow. She might be able to keep those if she decides to switch.
She will loose several of her shooting-feats if she switches class, because they come from her Ranger fighting style.

I can't say which from the phone.
 
We're not going to have an issue with metal stuff to begin with, Children of the Forest have a racial taboo against all metal. It's why we had to set aside the Bloodstone Amulet of PfE for Soft Strider -- all other Amulets of PfE are fluffed with using silver, whereas this one was just stone. Either way, she has dibs on the next dragonhide armor we get our claws on.

As for weapons, well, she has weapon-focus feats for her longbow. She might be able to keep those if she decides to switch.

Ironwood – d20PFSRD
 
Okay, looking more closely, that was a spell rather than a material. :oops:

I see it as a good placeholder, but I'll always be gunning for Soft Strider to get her own dragonhide armor no matter if she stays a ranger or becomes a druid.

EDIT: It's a shame this isn't permanent. We could have mass-produced Ironwood.

Granted, we can mass-produce Ironwood if we're willing to spend a Heart Tree on it, but yeah.
 
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@Azel Ignoring the metaphysical aspects of the spell, you are proposing something that moves ~77 kg of air in a second be able to move 63000 kg of water in the same second.


Yeah, that's a chair that makes people cry tears of blood.

Or creates a non-flammable type of grease ;)

Fair, but the rules don't explicitly say if it's summoning a non-flammable lubricant or using ~*magic*~ to simulate an effect, which would usually be irrelevant unless you're trying to apply real life physics.

Also yes. Tears of blood. So many. I'm cool with having taken like babies first fluids class where we pretend all motion is 1D and ignore like half/pretend fixed values for the other variables that aren't dimensionally related.
 
Part MMXXXII: A Web of Words
A Web of Words

Third Day of the Third Month 293 AC

You invoke the spell to pierce illusions with some hesitation, not only for the fact that the lady might take ill of an attempt to pierce glamour and trickery, but also for fear you might find something too foul to let live, something that can put up a fight. You can almost hear thousands upon thousands of wagging tongues, moved through either ignorance or malice: Foul Targaryen sorcerer slays the Council of Twelve during parley...

Thankfully Lady Dorera Phassen neither grows horns, claws, nor any other monstrous seeming under the gaze that denies sorcerous falsehoods. By all accounts she is a mortal woman. A sorceress, perhaps? It would not be that strange a tale, after all. A noblewoman would have the time and the resources to pursue magic, and even accounting for the fact that Essos leaves a few more doors open to ambitious women seeking power she would also have the greater need for leverage to pry open the path to advancement.

An arched eyebrow makes it very clear that she is aware of how your scrutiny has changed. The others have of course too, though likely think it is some courtier's flirtation, save of course Malarys who takes a very deliberate step to the left giving himself a clear line of attack, past Magister Argolys' solid figure.

"Tsk... Will you not allow a lady some secrets?" the woman asks softly, keeping up the flirtatious facade, though to your ears the wariness rings through clearly. Fair enough, your suppose. Yours is not a presence likely to set others at ease, still less those who can see the deeper truths of your being.

"Secrets can be dangerous things..." you muse. "Perhaps too dangerous to discuss in such a venue." A wave of guilt at the ruse passes over you before you shake the notion away.

"Perhaps, but now is alas a time for the dreary concerns of state and finance," she replies.

"To what finances are you referring to, milady?" you ask, knowingly taking the bait. You have never had someone try to sell you information about sorcery in exchange for something as mundane as coin. On the other hand even you are no more free of the necessity of gathering wealth and spending it wisely then you ever were as Corlys Waters on the alleyways of Braavos. Only the numbers change.

"The glassmaker's guild is likely to weather these unsettled times better than most, for we make little use of slaves and those we do use are chosen for skill not numbers, but still suffer we will, particularly our secondary concerns in jewels, silks, and other luxuries."

A very specific list... Had she divined your intent to enter those very markets? you wonder. It would hardly defy possibility. Silver Serpent Enterprises is manifest proof of the worth of accurate foretelling in protecting and growing business interests, and you could hardly be the only one to realize the possibilities.

"The toll through the Stepstones is hardly onerous, and much more preferable than risking such precious cargo vanishing into the hands of pirates," you answer for the benefit of the other members of the conclave. One or two of them mutter something uncomplimentary under their breath, obviously disagreeing with the notion that lining your pockets is safer than doing the same to some common raider.

Your attention, however, remains squarely on the lady and her seemingly idle answer. "I'm certain it must look that way to you, Your Grace, but you are not in a position to pay a toll for every one of your ships. If only we all enjoyed such a privilege."

The answer comes to you like the click of a key fitting into a lock. She was not trying to sell information for coin, instead she offered alliance, perhaps even allegiance. Was it for herself, for some wider gathering, for the city itself? The latter notion did not please you near as much as it might have. You would much prefer to conquer the Three Daughters, the better to expunge the poison that flowed through them.

Still, she had made a point of the fact that the guild whose interests she champions makes 'little use of slaves.' "When would be a good time for a more private meeting?" you ask.

"Midnight... I will send a coach to pick you up from your ship," the way she stresses the final two words makes you suspect she is aware you did not arrive aboard the Foam Cutter.

What do you reply?

[] Agree to the meeting

[] Set conditions
-[] Write in

[] Refuse


OOC: Remember you are still in a room full of people Lady Phassen is obviously trying to keep in the dark, so any answer you make should sound as inconspicuous as possible.
 
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"Midnight... I will send a coach to pick you up from your ship," the way she stresses the final two words makes you suspect she is aware you did not arrive aboard the Foam Cutter.

[X] Set conditions
-[X] Agree to the meeting, but whomever she sends in the coach should not be surprised when we teleport to the desired meeting place from the boat. Obviously, bring some party members.
-[ ] In acknowledgement that Viserys finds this woman attractive, presume that she is evil and kill her when we get a moment alone.


@TNE!!! That's horrible, you'll hurt the people we want to kill later :( Muwh Propogandaaaaa!

edit: Wait, didn't we send prop!ship back home already? Also, why bother with getting picked up?
 
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edit: Wait, didn't we send prop!ship back home already? Also, why bother with getting picked up?
Because the entire point of this whole thing is to play along with the magisters' demands. Calm the goats even while leading them to slaughter. They want us to sail to them? Fine. We'll act like we did. Having them realize that we just showed up out of thin air will spook them, hence keeping the ship at port as our pretense for our way back home.

As for bothering to get picked up, I'm assuming she's just following her own precautions in making that offer.
 
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