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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
1 Cultist Champion10 HD+25% (Caster)12.5 HD
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You are seriously underestimating him.
He cast Greater PLaneshift, meaning minimum CL13 if Cleric or 15 if Wizard.
And if it almost worked against Dany propably relativly high. Also he had 4 greater Daemons as bodyguard, good sign.

I would actually consider giving him to Yss if he isn't asleep anymore, because that's unique soul of serious power.
Azel said:
33 Minor Cultists66 HD-66 HD
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We know that there were quite a few lesser mages among them.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
You are seriously underestimating him.
He cast Greater PLaneshift, meaning minimum CL13 if Cleric or 15 if Wizard.
And if it almost worked against Dany propably relativly high. Also he had 4 greater Daemons as bodyguard, good sign.

I would actually consider giving him to Yss if he isn't asleep anymore, because that's unique soul of serious power.

We know that there were quite a few lesser mages among them.
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I've been intentionally low-balling it so that we rather overpay then underpaying due to misjudging some cultists power.

And I definitely want the Champion on the Tyrosh tree. He is an obviously tainted abomination and thus his death there too valuable for propaganda to pass it up.

Beside that, Yss is still digesting Tiamat clerics and the other snakes "Phylactery", so we can't feed him right now and I don't want to store a Daemon champion any longer then necessary.
 
@Azel, let's first try to milk this champion for in-character knowledge of just whom we became sworn enemies of?
The names of all daemons they know, what they were planning before we came, any rituals they know, all cultist's safehouses and cashes they know of in Tyrosh and outside of it, etc?

We should do that to all cultists, really.
But that will take far too much time and effort :(
 
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Duesal said:
There's really no way to have a dragon and not have dragon instincts in some fashion. There's always going to be a need to keep it under control. Goldfish's scheme mostly has that taken care of, but Valaena's still going to have her work cut out for her.

On a different note, Dragonstone action next turn since we're not going to Sothoryos! Campaigning in earnest for it now!

Benefits:

1. Destroy Rhaella's bones so they can never be used against her.
2. Pseudodragon population! Mate for Varys? Diplomancing the entire population?
3. Scouring the island for Valyrian Dragon Eggs, there have to be some that the goddamn Lannisters haven't found.
4. Dealing with whatever Lannisters are lurking there.
5. Walking among the dragonseeds. Pick up rumors, look for interesting people and possibly loot them.
6. Check up on Selyse Florent and Shireen Baratheon, even if it has to be discreetly.

But it's mainly number 3 that I'm after. It's high time the royalty (and Malarys) got their dragons.
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We should also look through the crypts, Arcane Sight to check for hidden doors missed by the looters. :mad:

Blood Wish Speak With Haunt – d20PFSRD and check what those possible Targaryen crypt encounters DP hinted at by having Viserys comment on it ICly.

@Deliste could probably sacrifice to any of the three SD deities to have them shoulder empower Oathkeeper in oue stead. Yss should fits nicely being lawful and has empowered objects before without tying it to himself beyond that. I think. @DragonParadox what metaphysical ties does the Djinn staff have to Yss? :wtf:
 
Fehu said:
We should also look through the crypts, Arcane Sight to check for hidden doors missed by the looters. :mad:

Blood Wish Speak With Haunt – d20PFSRD and check what those possible Targaryen crypt encounters DP hinted at by having Viserys comment on it ICly.

@Deliste could probably sacrifice to any of the three SD deities to have them shoulder empower Oathkeeper in oue stead. Yss should fits nicely being lawful and has empowered objects before without tying it to himself beyond that. I think. @DragonParadox what metaphysical ties does the Djinn staff have to Yss? :wtf:
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If it's gonna have an ongoing Blood Price there should be an ongoing Blood Benefit.

Something else shouldering the costs (and influencing) is actively detrimental to the flavourful connection I'm after.

Edit:

As an example of an effect that would be awesome but not change Oathkeeper's effectiveness in fights.

Blood Calls to Blood: This Weapon cannot be turned against the line of Viserys Targaryen due to the ongoing Blood Connection.

I want something that's gonna start rumours, something that matters to history, not whoever's head is currently falling off.

It's the Blood of The First and Last Targaryen, First and Last Dragon.

Blood of the King of Kings, sacrificed in the first ritual of its kind in centuries, by one of the last Smiths of his kind in centuries.

It should continue to mean something instead of being "good for it's time".
 
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egoo said:
@Azel, let's first try to milk this champion for in-character knowledge of just whom we became sworn enemies of?
The names of all daemons they know, what they were planning before we came, any rituals they know, all cultist's safehouses and cashes they know of in Tyrosh and outside of it, etc?

We should do that to all cultists, really.
But that will take far too much time and effort :(
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Speak With Dead is much safer then interrogating a high-level caster the old fashioned way.

Beside that, I want to remodel the catacombs as part of our rebuilding. Since we start with the most damaged areas, we are basically tearing the cult-bases open and wall them shut afterwards. Just need a assault-team on standby to deal with whatever the workers dig up.

Have the Legion patrol the finished section and keep remodelling until the entire catacombs are charted and cleaned.
 
Azel said:
Speak With Dead is much safer then interrogating a high-level caster the old fashioned way.

Beside that, I want to remodel the catacombs as part of our rebuilding. Since we start with the most damaged areas, we are basically tearing the cult-bases open and wall them shut afterwards. Just need a assault-team on standby to deal with whatever the workers dig up.

Have the Legion patrol the finished section and keep remodelling until the entire catacombs are charted and cleaned.
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I still think we should have Darkenbeasts for the "Frontier" of the catacombs, Leshy to do Waste Disposal etc. And finally the construction crews etc. to make something new of the space.
Adhoc vote count started by Deliste on May 9, 2018 at 4:27 AM, finished with 187658 posts and 13 votes.
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Mormont said:
Alternatively we don't use a fiat currency and let the value of the gold be its value. If that's the case who cares about someone fabricating their own currency as long as its still gold its just as real. As for clipping the coins the rim marks work just fine, either a grooves like many modern coins or just a raised script of Viserys name and title(s).
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The problem is counterfeiters don't make their coins out of gold, they coat their coins in gold, and make the inside out of other cheaper metals.
Mormont said:
Right but that'd give an inferior product to our fabricate made ones. It was specifically asked what if someone uses fabricate ones that don't come from us and I say it won't matter. If their fabricated they're just as good.
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Fabricate can make false coins, it's actually very good at it, with fabricate it would be easy to make the coins out of lead and coat them with a thin layer of gold.

Or if the counterfeiter is smart, make them 90% out of gold but add 10% lead, that's little enough other metal that it's hard to detect, but it still mean they are making a 10% profit, whenever they exchange them for other coins.
 
tarrangar said:
The problem is counterfeiters don't make their coins out of gold, they coat their coins in gold, and make the inside out of other cheaper metals.

Fabricate can make false coins, it's actually very good at it, with fabricate it would be easy to make the coins out of lead and coat them with a thin layer of gold.

Or if the counterfeiter is smart, make them 90% out of gold but add 10% lead, that's little enough other metal that it's hard to detect, but it still mean they are making a 10% profit, whenever they exchange them for other coins.
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If it passes it spends and if they can Fabricate the counterfeit they're probably better off just making as they go because there's no time investment requiring lead up, it's flying even more under the radar.

It's also difficult to profit with the real thing over the fake when you can't tell the difference. Say you make 10% profit, you melt down the real thing and go and exchange it in weight 1 for 1 in Gold Dragons, you may very well receive your own fake coins, you could get all your own fake coins if you've been at it enough.

Makes it all rather pointless in the end, unless you have some other need for gold than to spend it.

Edit:
Goldfish's ideas neatly circumvent this.

Get incredibly detailed in the landscapes, requiring a higher quality lense to see, both setting very high checks backed by a ritual of buffs to achieve.

Your average mage capable of Fabricate is not capable of this.
 
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tarrangar said:
The problem is counterfeiters don't make their coins out of gold, they coat their coins in gold, and make the inside out of other cheaper metals.

Fabricate can make false coins, it's actually very good at it, with fabricate it would be easy to make the coins out of lead and coat them with a thin layer of gold.

Or if the counterfeiter is smart, make them 90% out of gold but add 10% lead, that's little enough other metal that it's hard to detect, but it still mean they are making a 10% profit, whenever they exchange them for other coins.
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But fabricate can't do that it only works on one material at a time.
 
Deliste said:
If it passes it spends and if they can Fabricate the counterfeit they're probably better off just making as they go because there's no time investment requiring lead up, it's flying even more under the radar.

It's also difficult to profit with the real thing over the fake when you can't tell the difference. Say you make 10% profit, you melt down the real thing and go and exchange it in weight 1 for 1 in Gold Dragons, you may very well receive your own fake coins, you could get all your own fake coins if you've been at it enough.

Makes it all rather pointless in the end, unless you have some other need for gold than to spend it.
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Not really, sure it's not that useful if you stay in the same place, but if you combine it with being a merchant, it really boost your profit rates, you travel to various places and buy wares with counterfeited 10% lead coins, and you sell the wares in your homeport for 100% pure gold coins, decreasing your expenses by around 10%.
Mormont said:
But fabricate can't do that it only works on one material at a time.
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Which just mean you have to use it twice, first to make the inner part of the coin, and then to coat the coin with the gold.
 
I think you guys are pouring a lot of thought in solving a problem that is already addrssed.

Fabricate requires a 10th level caster.
Harden a 14th level caster.

The number of people who could actually create convincing fake Imperial Coins is insanely small. It's much easier to fake other currencies then ours and by the time those drop out of favor, we are controlling most of those casters through the Scholarium system.

It's actually beneficial to us if counterfeiting keeps up, but goes for other currencies. It erodes the trust in other coinage, thus implicitly raising the value of ours.
 
Azel said:
I think you guys are pouring a lot of thought in solving a problem that is already addrssed.

Fabricate requires a 10th level caster.
Harden a 14th level caster.

The number of people who could actually create convincing fake Imperial Coins is insanely small. It's much easier to fake other currencies then ours and by the time those drop out of favor, we are controlling most of those casters through the Scholarium system.

It's actually beneficial to us if counterfeiting keeps up, but goes for other currencies. It erodes the trust in other coinage, thus implicitly raising the value of ours.
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The Lense Coins are super cool and do provide those benefits, there will always be one or two lazy mages, may as well make it a challenge for them so they have something to teach us when we capture them.

In fact we should always operate to the best of our ability for this purpose, greatness begets greatness and even our criminals will be the best and profit The Empire.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by egoo on May 9, 2018 at 6:09 AM, finished with 187665 posts and 13 votes.
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I still don't want lenses in the center, since those greatly restrict the design.

How about a glass ring in the rim? You can then add writing or images to the inside, with the glass acting as a lense to make it readable. With Harden, the glass won't scratch without very dedicated effort.

That makes coin clipping utterly impossible and actually expands our room for artwork and propaganda.
 
tarrangar said:
Not really, sure it's not that useful if you stay in the same place, but if you combine it with being a merchant, it really boost your profit rates, you travel to various places and buy wares with counterfeited 10% lead coins, and you sell the wares in your homeport for 100% pure gold coins, decreasing your expenses by around 10%.

Which just mean you have to use it twice, first to make the inner part of the coin, and then to coat the coin with the gold.
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If you are a mage capable of casting both Fabricate and Hardening, 5th and 6th level spells, and you decide to be a criminal, trying to counterfeit our currency is a fairly benign use of your powers. They could be summoning Demons and raising Undead armies instead.

Making each coin detailed enough to qualify as a Masterwork item would also require either an extremely high metalworking skill or the use of magic such as Divine Insight. It would be incredibly unlikely for another mage to come along with access to Fabricate and Divine Insight, considering one is Arcane and the other Divine. If working with a Divine caster co-conspirator, they would need to be able to cast at least 4th level spells in order to use Imbue with Spell Ability to give the other mage access to Divine Insight.

Again, with that much magical power and expertise, we should be so lucky if they only decide to make a modest profit from counterfeiting our currency.
 
Azel said:
I still don't want lenses in the center, since those greatly restrict the design.

How about a glass ring in the rim? You can then add writing or images to the inside, with the glass acting as a lense to make it readable. With Harden, the glass won't scratch without very dedicated effort.

That makes coin clipping utterly impossible and actually expands our room for artwork and propaganda.
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If the glass isn't going to go in the center, I wouldn't use it at all. Even using Hardening on it wouldn't make it resilient enough to completely avoid damage along the edges, though it would be more difficult to inflict deliberately and take much longer to occur naturally.
 
No love for hidden illusory script or symbols like the One Ring?

Being a cantrip should make an item to mass-print the marks dirt cheap.
 
Two enterprising spellcasters trying to make fake coinage... not only an immense waste of their talent and skills, but probably a sign that you should hire them and give them a job.

Though perhaps not at the Mint. :V
 
Algalon said:
No love for hidden illusory script or symbols like the One Ring?

Being a cantrip should make an item to mass-print the marks dirt cheap.
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I would fully support using an enchanted item to place an Arcane Mark on each coin. It's a permanent effect which cannot be Dispelled, and would further insulate us against counterfeiting.
 
Goldfish said:
I would fully support using an enchanted item to place an Arcane Mark on each coin. It's a permanent effect which cannot be Dispelled, and would further insulate us against counterfeiting.
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In addition, if it placed Viserys' Arcane Mark on every single coin, he could teleport to any location that his currency ended up in. :V
 
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