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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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[X] "There are some who called for your head, given what you took without fullfilling your task, but calmer voices prevailed. After all, it will aid you greatly in making good on your bargain, won't it?"
-[X] "He is alone, save for a whore sharing his bed. Come now. All will be forgiven once you do the deed."
-[X] If the bluff fails, Bloodwish: Flesh to Stone

A stone statue is shitty proof and I would rather not waste a spell on this when we can easily coax him where we need him with words.
 
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I'm going to be salty if we aren't rolling in sacrifices enough to raise both Tyrosh tree and Scholar's tree back at Deep at the very least. Dawn fruit tree too, but less urgently than Scholarum' pick-me-up-in-efficiency-tree.

I mean, I want to hope, but my pessimism tells me "No, you won't".

And really, capturing sacrifices alive is a near-impossibility without baleful polymorph.
That is, good sacrifices, like daemons. Otherwise, they're too deadly to everything (bar party members) to let them live any longer than it takes for our people to sword them :/

[X] Azel
 
Azel said:
[X] "There are some who called for your head, given what you took without fullfilling your task, but calmer voices prevailed. After all, it will aid you greatly in making good on your bargain, won't it?"
-[X] "He is alone, save for a whore sharing his bed. Come now. All will be forgiven once you do the deed."

A stone statue is shitty proof and I would rather not waste a spell on this when we can easily coax him where we need him with words.
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He would only be a statue for as long as it takes us to Teleport him back to the commander's tent and undo the effect.
 
Wow, I can't believe no one can think of any instances where laws were enforced retroactively. Anyone heard of the French Revolution? Almost an entire class of people were wiped out, for things that had been perfectly acceptable and legal before the revolution. Somewhat the same thing happened in England after Cromwell killed Charles I. In Germany, after the reformation, the constituent states of the HRE were all forced to adopt the specific faith tenents of their rulers. If an old ruler died and his heir was of a different faith, while the population in general were allowed to peacefully change religions, the religious leaders were often not granted that courtesy, and executed/exiled for their past religious activities. Same thing again in England, when Henry VIII dumped the Catholic church for his own version, many of the religious were punished without a chance to convert.

Edit: forgot what happened after the first Haitian revolution, when all the slaves freed themselves. Google that sometime.

Now, all of these examples are pretty grim, not exactly examples of justice. Many times in the world there have been attempts to majorly change societies from one accepted truth to its opposite, and it is usually quite messy. So, I have a small proposal.

Many societies in the world have/have had the concept of the blood price, a payment made by the guilty (often those of a higher class/caste than the victim) to the relatives of those unjustly killed, in exchange for which the relatives give up all rights, both legal and extra-legal, to vengeance for the death.
So, just have a standard fine to from all slave owners that would be split up between all of their slaves, that would cover both wages not received and any past injustices/deaths that may have occured. I'm thinking something like 80% of all liquid assets would do, plus maybe 50% of all real property reverting to the crown to be redistributed....
 
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@Goldfish, I don't think petrification would stop a possessing daemon from getting away. As far as I can tell the petrification would only affect the human, leaving the daemon free to slip away.
 
Azel said:
My plan has the same effect. Him in the commanders tent while not being a statue, but it doesn't need 3 spells to achieve that goal.
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I think you are trying to bluff with too little supporting information, but I don't care enough to make an issue of it. We can kill him if it fails, then mind control the commander.

[X] Azel
 
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AntaeusTheGiant said:
Wow, I can't believe no one can think of any instances where laws were enforced retroactively. Anyone heard of the French Revolution? Almost an entire class of people were wiped out, for things that had been perfectly acceptable and legal before the revolution. Somewhat the same thing happened in England after Cromwell killed Charles I. In Germany, after the reformation, the constituent states of the HRE were all forced to adopt the specific faith tenents of their rulers. If an old ruler died and his heir was of a different faith, while the population in general were allowed to peacefully change religions, the religious leaders were often not granted that courtesy, and executed/exiled for their past religious activities. Same thing again in England, when Henry VIII dumped the Catholic church for his own version, many of the religious were punished without a chance to convert.

Edit: forgot what happened after the first Haitian revolution, when all the slaves freed themselves. Google that sometime.

Now, all of these examples are pretty grim, not exactly examples of justice. Many times in the world there have been attempts to majorly change societies from one accepted truth to its opposite, and it is usually quite messy. So, I have a small proposal.

Many societies in the world have/have had the concept of the blood price, a payment made by the guilty (often those of a higher class/caste than the victim) to the relatives of those unjustly killed, in exchange for which the relatives give up all rights, both legal and extra-legal, to vengeance for the death.
So, just have a standard fine to from all slave owners that would be split up between all of their slaves, that would cover both wages not received and any past injustices/deaths that may have occured. I'm thinking something like 80% of all liquid assets would do, plus maybe 50% of all real property reverting to the crown to be redistributed....
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Our constitution already has provisions to seize a slavers property, however, randomly distributing that wealth among the slaves themselves is mindbogglingly stupid. You just crash the economy with that, since you flood the city with currency, leading to rampant inflation and none of that coin being worth anything.

Likewise, we will hang a good number of slavers, seize a decent number of properties and will slap some nice fines on the rest. The important part here is talking to the magisters first though, so that we can cleanly distinguish between the bad slavers (those opposed to us) whose properties are seized and the good slavers (those who are amenable to our rule), who get away with fines.


All this moral grandstanding about having trials over every dead slave in the past 50 years is exceedingly (self)righteous, but falls flat in the face of reality, let alone of Realpolitik. We will be lucky if the Legion officers can keep up with the judicial demands in the immediate aftermath of the invasion. Trying to fabricate thousands of cases from mere hearsay is patently impossible for them to shoulder, let alone how insane it would be.

Remember that Tyrosh has made anti-Targ propaganda with claims that we would kill every man and woman who ever owned a slave. If you want to turn the city into a burning ruin, you can certainly try to make that a reality with these plans.
 
It is unsurprising that now that the chosen hour has arrived, those willing to stake their votes on "kill all slavers" have come calling yet again, given how unlikely it was we were ever going to systematically target them with blanket arrests.

Unless we intend to kill all of them without exception, that is a mindbogglingly stupid plan. And while it is possible that we could train up a new educated class of people, the expense in the short-to-medium term is not one we should, or maybe even could, shoulder. We need the men and women previously acting as industry leaders to still exist in enough wealth and capacity to continue operations throughout the next six months, which was the general estimate for how long it would take for the economy to stabilize.

I do not mean the economy to recover, I mean stabilize. As in, for us to stop bleeding fucking gold every single day just to keep the city from teetering off the edge and into economic collapse.

The plan was always to be compromising at the end of the day. The men and women targeted and properties seized were to be more an example than anything else. We also need enough of the previous leadership caste to be alive to convince our neighbors in the short term that we might be negotiated with.
 
[X] Azel

AntaeusTheGiant said:
So, just have a standard fine to from all slave owners that would be split up between all of their slaves, that would cover both wages not received and any past injustices/deaths that may have occured. I'm thinking something like 80% of all liquid assets would do, plus maybe 50% of all real property reverting to the crown to be redistributed...
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May I direct your attention to here. While its not directly applicable it does have a number of arguements that can be applied to our upcoming situation in Tyrosh. Further, I would very much like to not model our first major conquest and expansion on any of those travesties you mentioned. Yes, the law can be applied ex post facto, no that should never be the case as it makes the applicable party seem either arbitrary and capricious. We already have a precedent as to what to do with slavers in a conquered territory. Just as we didn't kill all the Ironborn that followed Damphair, nor rob them of near everything they had, we cannot do so to the Tyroshi magisters. Pick out the worst, including those that are politically inconvenient, kill them and move on with life.
 
@Azel is experiencing some connection problems at the moment.

Anyway @Mormont, we're in there not for the slavers, we're in there for slavery itself. Much easier to stamp it out when the previous class is actively helping stop it, if only because it will keep them alive.
 
Azel said:
[X] "There are some who called for your head, given what you took without fullfilling your task, but calmer voices prevailed. After all, it will aid you greatly in making good on your bargain, won't it?"
-[X] "He is alone, save for a whore sharing his bed. Come now. All will be forgiven once you do the deed."
-[X] If the bluff fails, Bloodwish: Flesh to Stone

A stone statue is shitty proof and I would rather not waste a spell on this when we can easily coax him where we need him with words.
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Click to shrink...
Teleport the stone statue, undo the pretification, exorcise it, deal with the daemon.

Convinces the captain either way.
 
You guys remember how the Fye were able to get out of the bottled rats right? They were in freaking stasis and managed to get out.

It probaby means that this daemon can get out of a stone body.
 
Tomcost said:
You guys remember how the Fye were able to get out of the bottled rats right? They were in freaking stasis and managed to get out.

It probaby means that this daemon can get out of a stone body.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure petrification isn't the solution here.

If the daemons are already out? Then yes, petrify them. But this one is inside a human and currently counts as ethereal.
 
Crake said:
It is unsurprising that now that the chosen hour has arrived, those willing to stake their votes on "kill all slavers" have come calling yet again, given how unlikely it was we were ever going to systematically target them with blanket arrests.

Unless we intend to kill all of them without exception, that is a mindbogglingly stupid plan. And while it is possible that we could train up a new educated class of people, the expense in the short-to-medium term is not one we should, or maybe even could, shoulder. We need the men and women previously acting as industry leaders to still exist in enough wealth and capacity to continue operations throughout the next six months, which was the general estimate for how long it would take for the economy to stabilize.

I do not mean the economy to recover, I mean stabilize. As in, for us to stop bleeding fucking gold every single day just to keep the city from teetering off the edge and into economic collapse.

The plan was always to be compromising at the end of the day. The men and women targeted and properties seized were to be more an example than anything else. We also need enough of the previous leadership caste to be alive to convince our neighbors in the short term that we might be negotiated with.
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Eeehhh... You mean Tarrengar and a couple of sympathizers? Calm down Crake, nothing will come out of it. The Hard and Soft Imperialists have this issue locked down tight and with the Magpie MP on our side the Magister Genocide Ship isn't sailing anywhere.
 
bigbow said:
Eeehhh... You mean Tarrengar and a couple of sympathizers? Calm down Crake, nothing will come out of it. The Hard and Soft Imperialists have this issue locked down tight and with the Magpie MP on our side the Magister Genocide Ship isn't sailing anywhere.
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What are the factions in this quest? For curiousity sake of course. No other reason
 
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