Well, Hex are in for the short victorious war, they won't stay if it looks bad. Nohon are also merely "starring shit" so maybe an army there preemptively gonna stop them.
Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization
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- He/Him
Given that the movements are entirely within Hespranxer and Vortuga territory and they are using the Strait of Gibraltar equivalent to do it, no, your ships would be cut apart by shore batteries, let alone the naval forces there.
Warning the Khemetri would happen regardless of the warning sent to others, but you have no ability to contest their crossing from Hespranxer to Hespranxer territory through Vortuga territory.
There is a good possibility that if you tell people about it the Hespranxer will immediately abort the whole operation in favour of internal security and getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar, although the 'Go' signal for the Nohon to start shit has probably already been sent... which could be incredibly embarrassing for them if they were expecting you to be distracted. Now, you still might be distracted, but this is exactly the sort of scenario where if it comes out some of those who might be opposed to helping you (Sketch, Hespranxer, Halvyni) might whack the Nohon to give up any potential gains out of pure principle and thanks for the warning.
I am considering bumping it up to 2 Perm IC cost.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Is it really.
Take the import discussion for example. For the past few hours, the argument has been that steel is bad because it will crush the native industry and render us utterly dependent. Now the GM has confirmed that this assumption is incorrect, and that it's just the small primitive orgs that are in trouble.
Still, the bandwagon rolls forward.
- Location
- France
I suspect the Nohon will bail once the Hex become unable to intervene, they simply can't fight with us long term and know it.
HanEmpire
Delicious
So to recap:
-Vortuga is working with Nohon and Hespranxer to hit us from both ends
-Nohon is trying to split us from the Hung by convincing the Imperial Court of our perfidy
-Hespranxer wants a short victorious war against a militarily competent Khemetri
-Ochuhr is seeding Republican Rebellions everywhere to sow as much confusion and chaos as possible, making it possible for themselves to come out on top
-We know all this
What a fucking gongshow.
@Academia Nut could we broker a lasting non-aggression pact between Hespranxer and the Khemetri out of this?
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Spymaster: "I would be more impressed if it didn't fail in exactly how these things always fail: overreach pisses off one guy who blows the whole thing open."
It's an action with considerable costs, little if any mechanical advantages and iffy narrative. No new information changed it.
[X] [Kielmyr] 0 PW - A slight reworking of tariffs may be in order (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp IC, Kielmyr mildly accepting)
[X] [Trains] 0 PW - Buy what is available (-1 Temp SoL, Prototype Railroad [Open] and boosted)
[X] [Sheep] 2 PW - Aid shall be theirs (Sending Technical Advisors, -1 IC, Medium Investment in Black Sheep, Black Sheep very pleased)
[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Yes (Black Sheep pleased)
[X] [Conspiracy] 1 PW - Send out a warning while publicly decrying the Ochruhr for their involvement (-1 Trust, potential war with Ochruhr, ???)
Which is basically what happened IRL. Railways turbocharged infrastructure development because it's a mass hauler that can transport it's own construction material in bulk.
Just imagine building roads without trucks to haul gravel or having no mechanization.
@Academia Nut
Would Settle Kyberia increase the available Railway capacity as there are now more places to economically connect or is the limiter a technological one, ie not enough steel/good enough steel?
[X] [Trains] 0 PW - Buy what is available (-1 Temp SoL, Prototype Railroad [Open] and boosted)
[X] [Sheep] 2 PW - Aid shall be theirs (Sending Technical Advisors, -1 IC, Medium Investment in Black Sheep, Black Sheep very pleased)
[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Yes (Black Sheep pleased)
[X] [Conspiracy] 1 PW - Send out a warning while publicly decrying the Ochruhr for their involvement (-1 Trust, potential war with Ochruhr, ???)
Which is basically what happened IRL. Railways turbocharged infrastructure development because it's a mass hauler that can transport it's own construction material in bulk.
Just imagine building roads without trucks to haul gravel or having no mechanization.
@Academia Nut
Would Settle Kyberia increase the available Railway capacity as there are now more places to economically connect or is the limiter a technological one, ie not enough steel/good enough steel?
- Location
- Trondheim, Norway
[X] [Kielmyr] 0 PW - A slight reworking of tariffs may be in order (-1 Temp SoL, +1 Temp IC, Kielmyr mildly accepting)
[X] [Trains] 0 PW - Buy what is available (-1 Temp SoL, Prototype Railroad [Open] and boosted)
[X] [Sheep] 2 PW - Aid shall be theirs (Sending Technical Advisors, -1 IC, Medium Investment in Black Sheep, Black Sheep very pleased)
[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Yes (Black Sheep pleased)
[X] [Conspiracy] 1 PW - Send out a warning while publicly decrying the Ochruhr for their involvement (-1 Trust, potential war with Ochruhr, ???)
[X] [Trains] 0 PW - Buy what is available (-1 Temp SoL, Prototype Railroad [Open] and boosted)
[X] [Sheep] 2 PW - Aid shall be theirs (Sending Technical Advisors, -1 IC, Medium Investment in Black Sheep, Black Sheep very pleased)
[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Yes (Black Sheep pleased)
[X] [Conspiracy] 1 PW - Send out a warning while publicly decrying the Ochruhr for their involvement (-1 Trust, potential war with Ochruhr, ???)
Someone should've taught them to KISS. Or no, if they wanted us to succeed.
We can do three a turn right. Perhaps an escalating cost to represent the massive manpower and steel costs cornering the market and driving up prices.
First one costs 1IC, the second 2IC as steel is suddenly more expensive and avalible labor becomes scarese. 3IC for the last one as we poach people working other jobs to build rails and dry the steel market to seabed.
- Location
- France
I think each plan was originally rather simple, but as conspiracy meet conspiracy and they became entwined together... well, things started to get really, really messy.
@Academia Nut would preventing this new wave of republican revolts possibly please the conservatives?
liberty90
Evil Neoliberal Cat
- Location
- Poland
No, no. My argument was always about happiness and geopolitical context.
Economic efficiency is completely irrelevant. It's obvious that imports would be more efficient, basic theory of comparative advantage.
We still shouldn't vote for that, not during current situation in Syffryn.
- Location
- Illinois
And they didn't settle for the easy victory, they all kept trying to push for a little bit more gain. If the Nohon had just focused on cutting us from the Hung, we couldn't have done much. If they had attacked next time we went to war without their hands in the pie, we couldn't have done much.
If the Och had just stuck with a few countries on fire from Republicans, we wouldn't have noticed. If they hadn't tacked their plan onto the Nohon's, we wouldn't have noticed.
And so forth. They wanted more when they thought they were doing well, and eventually it bit them in the ass.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
The problem is that doing this sacrifices future development, and opens up vulnerabilities to the Sketch. It sacrifices future development because rail expertise doesn't go to us, but to the Sketch, which means we can't get to higher level of railroads without relying even more on the Sketch.
Your argument was hardly the dominant one, though.
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HanEmpire
Delicious
@Academia Nut how is this modifier looking these days? Has the date been moved forward any?
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Yes, but probably no more than 1 new railway possibility per 3 actions, and possibly less. The amount of railway you can do is actually currently limited to the terrain where the current generation will work rather than resources. You need specific locations for it to be a good idea or the engines won't be able to economically haul enough goods to make it worth development (so essentially you need flat terrain where you can't also put a canal).
It is far too late to stop the revolts, but you can potentially give enough warning to ensure that the situation doesn't go the way the conspirators want. The warning could potentially increase their success by meaning that the Ochruhr aren't coordinating the way the conspiracy says they will be.
Yes.
Well, preventing them frrom mostly succeeding then. Would that finally untwist their panties pantaloons?
- Location
- Huezil
Subversive republican!
liberty90
Evil Neoliberal Cat
- Location
- Poland
@Academia Nut
Not that this is terribly important, but shouldn't our Development be at "Development 16/41+25%" instead of "Development 15/41+25%" ? We raised 2 Perm IC last turn (to compensate for IC that was used). I see that IC numbers are OK, but I'm not sure about Development.
Not that this is terribly important, but shouldn't our Development be at "Development 16/41+25%" instead of "Development 15/41+25%" ? We raised 2 Perm IC last turn (to compensate for IC that was used). I see that IC numbers are OK, but I'm not sure about Development.
Seeing as the option Opens Prototype Rail research for us, that doesn't seem to be the case. Further development of train tech is clearly still in the cards. While it may slow native development a bit, that seems entirely worth it considering how strong the action is and how badly we need the transportation.
If we had picked Protoype Rail as our research option then this would be alright, but we didn't do so because the assumption was that we would buy them off the Sketch. Backing out now over costs we already knew were coming seems like shooting ourselves in the foot.
@Academia Nut How does the max IC from Prototype Rail interact with pollution? Would our cap be 8 (12 with pollution) if we maxed everything out?
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I'm pretty sure I made a few math errors, but I will go back over and adjust.