Whenever people talk about computers like that, I recall Accelerando and decide that, uh. It's a good idea, but caveat emptor.
The singularity is inevitable! Moloch calls! Embrace Economy 2.0! Enjoy unthinkably complex legal systems founded by capitalist hyperintelligences in an ever-growing arms race!


But also, like, better to have artificial intelligences that are biased by a committee of developers than constantly corrupted representatives. *shrug*
If we get the chance to vote against campaign donations to senators and don't, I will be wroth.
 
Well, I can get the desire to avoid becoming Stock Western Democracy, as this is boring as shit; but my preferred path is stupendous education (aka "everyone with several degrees in social sciences and economics") making direct democracy possible instead of, you know, sorta dumb.

...y'know, if we wanted direct democracy to be viable we maybe shouldn't have taken over quite so much of Kyberia.
 
For example I would argue that a lot of USA's inability to get things done has quite a lot to do with how there political system is structured.
USA has a first past the post voting system, this leads to them only having two parties because voting for a third party only makes it likelier that the party you like the least wins.
The big virtue of first past the post systems is that they tend to produce solid majorities that let the winning party actually do stuff. That and having a local representative.

The US's inability to do stuff has more to do with it having been set up so that every part of the system fights every other part. Gridlock is a feature of the US system, not a bug.
 
...y'know, if we wanted direct democracy to be viable we maybe shouldn't have taken over quite so much of Kyberia.
I know that I'm more concerned about being one of the biggest baddest nations for the next hundred years to stop people from messing with us and also trying to use proxies to slow down Syffrinite colonialism.

So yeah. Fuck Direct Democracy. I really don't give a crap about it right now or until the next Lightning round.
 
...y'know, if we wanted direct democracy to be viable we maybe shouldn't have taken over quite so much of Kyberia.
Honestly, for a direct democracy to work, you'll need the entirety of the nation know how to rule a country.
This means highly developed public education, which won't be viable until new communication technologies roll in, as well as infrastructure for it.
And that's going to take a long while, even with SV's pro-intellectual preferences.
 
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Honestly, for a direct democracy to work, you'll need the entirety of the nation know how to rule a country.
This means highly developed public education, which won't be viable until new communication technologies roll in, as well as infrastructure for it.
And that's going to take a long while, even with SV's pro-intellectual preferences.

Yes, and that's what the post I quoted was advocating for - invest heavily in education so that, in the long run, direct democracy could be viable. My point was just that even with such investment, trying to implement it across as massive a territory as we hold would be a logistical impossibility.
 
The big virtue of first past the post systems is that they tend to produce solid majorities that let the winning party actually do stuff. That and having a local representative.

The US's inability to do stuff has more to do with it having been set up so that every part of the system fights every other part. Gridlock is a feature of the US system, not a bug.
I pointed out that there are a lower house, upper house and a persident that all more or less have to agree (plus the filibuster). That is what makes the system fight itself as you put it.

But one thing you have to remember is that the US constitution is the oldest still in use and the whole democracy thing was kind of new.
The results where gridlock but the intent was to prevent one man from becoming dictator, prevent corruption and make sure political parties did not form.

A funny thing is that inpart because of the gridlock the presidency have slowely increased in power and political parties formed quite quickly.
 
Yes, and that's what the post I quoted was advocating for - invest heavily in education so that, in the long run, direct democracy could be viable. My point was just that even with such investment, trying to implement it across as massive a territory as we hold would be a logistical impossibility.
For reference:
Well, I can get the desire to avoid becoming Stock Western Democracy, as this is boring as shit; but my preferred path is stupendous education (aka "everyone with several degrees in social sciences and economics") making direct democracy possible instead of, you know, sorta dumb.
...y'know, if we wanted direct democracy to be viable we maybe shouldn't have taken over quite so much of Kyberia.
Ah, I see.
Except I (believe I) said that direct democracy would take a long while either way.
Necessary technologies are a long time away from now, so we have a lot of time to colonize and civilize Siberia.
In the meantime, a greater focus on education would still be helpful. Large amount of qualified teachers, good quality of learning institutions, a tradition and cultural emphasis on education- those things will take a long while to develop as well. Better start now.
 
I know that I'm more concerned about being one of the biggest baddest nations for the next hundred years to stop people from messing with us and also trying to use proxies to slow down Syffrinite colonialism.
Uhh.

Colonialism is pretty much dead for the next 50ish years depending on how much we stick with an otl-like timeline. This was due to various reasons:

  1. The old colonial empires are pretty much dead aside from the English (and here the Sketch). Which led to many deciding "why bother" and instead developed what holdings they had left.
  2. The arising principle of free trade dissuaded many from the concept of colonies.
  3. Imperialism arose from industrialisation.
 
Uhh.

Colonialism is pretty much dead for the next 50ish years depending on how much we stick with an otl-like timeline. This was due to various reasons:

  1. The old colonial empires are pretty much dead aside from the English (and here the Sketch). Which led to many deciding "why bother" and instead developed what holdings they had left.
  2. The arising principle of free trade dissuaded many from the concept of colonies.
  3. Imperialism arose from industrialisation.
....
Scramble for Africa - Wikipedia
 
Started in the 1880s.
Which hasn't happened yet.

It was claimed that Colonialism was over.

It isn't, it wasn't and others will try and expand still.
You claimed colonialism was over. This is evidence it wasn't. Hell there were other non British colonial incidents that happened before that.

Also you seriously have already forgotten that we're ahead of OtL? That there are already African Syffrin port colonies and no Free Trade yet.
 
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You claimed colonialism was over. This is evidence it wasn't. Hell there were other non British colonial incidents that happened before that.

Also you seriously have already forgotten that we're ahead of OtL?
Didn't say it was over.
Colonialism is pretty much dead for the next 50ish years
I said it was halted. Because there were specific social causes that led to the scrable for Africa and Imperialism.
 
Can people bring malaria home and infect our native mosquito pool?
It's probably already in Ymaryn lands. In real life it originated in Africa and the Chinese knew about it thousands of years ago.
Then again cholera spread out of Kus/India thousands of years earlier than it did in real life so maybe not.
Malaria doesn't do well in cold or dry areas. It's probably already floating around, but it just isn't the killer it is in the tropics.
Isn't the Ymaryn core territory approximately Mediterranean in climate? Given how wet and warm the place is I'd say mosquitoes and malaria will do pretty well there.
 
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Anyhow. Let me give you a bulletpoint version of the origins of Imperialism.
  • Lacking development in areas that had valueable resources (while the "states" in the area weren't respected), which meant that Europeans either had to invest in the area themselves and develop it in order to keep up with European demand.
  • In some cases when there were respectable nations this was done with loans.
  • The above led to European nations developing a political stake in keeping these areas stable because a huge part of their economy was invested in other countries.
  • This led to a new kind of colonialism, which was more focussed on controling territory.
  • This had to be done in order to maintain a the level of lifestyle that even the lower classes had become accustomed to.
  • At the same time more Europeans began to travel, and sometimes ran afoul with the local peoples. This news would filter back through new methods of communication, which caused people to demand their governments to do something about it and create order in the region.
  • Economically, after the American civil war, most European nations looked towards Africa and Asia for raw materials. When more and more nations industrialized, profits fell and compitition rose, as did tarrifs. In order to make sure that Industrialized nations had a place to sell their goods and get raw materials to sustain themselves, the idea of "sheltered market" was divised.
  • As we see in the current day, at some point investments in the colonies became more profitable than in the homeland due to new regualtions. These investments needed to be protected.
  • Maintaining the balance of power was another reason
  • As was the idealized position of the white man's burden.
  • And prestige and healing national pride (See France after the Franco-Prussian war)
 
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Economically after the American civil war, most European nations looked towards Africa and Asia for raw materials. When more and more nations industrialized, profits fell and compitition rose, as did tarrifs. In order to make sure that Industrialized nations had a place to sell their goods and get raw materials to sustain themselves, the idea of "sheltered market" was divised.
Is this the system where the colonies got shafted into buying from the industrial nations at exploitative prices? How did the European nations reconcile that with the idea of free trade?
 
Let's talk about the Scramble for Africa, or rather let's talk about it's enablers.

There were historically three key factors that prevented Europeans from colonising Africa prior to the late 19th Century:
- diseases killed most Europeans who set foot there;
- similarly, European flora and fauna didn't take very well to the African climate; and
- there were a lot of Africans and Europe was far away.

I'm going to focus on the first one, because it gives a good insight into what the challenges associated with actually colonising Africa were.

People die when they are killed, and Africa had a lot of ways to die

Prior to the Scramble for Africa there was some limited colonisation of Africa, mostly on the coast. The British had a colony on the Gold Coast which in the early 19th century was used first as a naval base and then to run anti-slavery patrols out of. Every year it was common that over half of the British troops stationed there would die. They would die from blackwater fever, yellow fever, breakbone fever, bloody flux, any number of parasites, and of course malaria.

Africa was so frequently fatal that when Britain considered making the Gold Coast its new penal colony (after the American revolution meant that they could no longer ship convicts to Georgia) Edmund Burke called it an effective imposition of the death penalty after "a mock display of mercy".

The discovery of an effective anti-malarial in quinine changed the calculus somewhat so that a trip to Africa was no longer a definite death sentence but it was still perilous in the extreme. Even during King Leopold's depredations of the Congo in the 1890s Joseph Conrad, who himself nearly died, reported such high incidences of fever and dysentery that most of his fellow Europeans were sent home before their terms of duty were up, "so that they shouldn't die in the Congo. God Forbid! It would spoil the statistics which are excellent, you see! In a word, it seems that there are only seven percent who can do their three year service".

This is what the European powers were fighting against when trying to colonise Africa. Anti-malarials meant that colonisation was possible, not easy. It wasn't until the 20th century before medicine for most of Africa's diseases was discovered and African colonies became truly sustainable.

I haven't touched on the trials of growing European plants in Africa (spoiler: they don't), or the difficulties of supplying your colony when all your horses (which you need to move things) keep dying from sleeping sickness, or just the general logistical challenges of conquering a nation across an ocean on a different continent. But simply, prior to the late 1800s African colonies of European powers were coastal and relied on constant support from their mother nation to keep operating.

In my opinion, Crosby summed it up well: "The whites simply were not equipped to impose their will on Africa until [...] the age of cheap and plentiful quinine and repeating rifles."
 
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Is this the system where the colonies got shafted into buying from the industrial nations at exploitative prices? How did the European nations reconcile that with the idea of free trade?
They're didn't. This was in the period of neomercantilism.

Free trade took some severe hits in the second half of the 19th century and made way to the above. This due to economical depressions, newly industrializing nations protecting their infant industries from established industries (the British), the rise of big business and organized labor, social laws, ect.
 
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