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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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@Crake

Why don't we make this simpler?
Clearly tell him that we talked to the OGs and a higher-ranking servant than this godspeaker and that she knows through them that abusing the favor will have sever consequences.
 
Got to say I'm disturbed my the memory stuff too. They make up an integral part of ones personality matrix. Do we really want to hollow that base out of a really important moment for Viserys, as a person and ruler? The conquest of Tyrosh will mark how for the first time he took over something that mattered in the political stage, how he can be a conqueror as well as a ruler, etc etc. Digging a few mines under that core of triumph and satisfaction at the plan seems a bit reckless. Besides, if we dont know whats happening then how do we improvise when it inevitably all goes to shit?

As in, suddenly the Deep Ones break truce and attack San's fleet, and our first feaction will be "what the fuck is he doing out there?!" And "why are all my ships missing!?".
 
egoo said:
...I'm in Azel camp on this matter, @Goldfish.
Sure, it may seem like an unnecessary risk, but it seems far more simple and time-effective than relying on a number of spells and rituals you've outlined.
We'll likely have a great number of actions that we'd better take this turn (sooner better than later, yadda-yadda) we'll need Viserys for.
As such, wasting too much time on pre-Tyrosh is gonna suck.
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I simply don't care. I don't even care if they end up knowing we are coming for Tyrosh. I will not support self-mind wipes for any reason at all.

Mage's Private Sanctum covers a huge area and lasts for 24 hours per casting. Lya can cast it once a day and we'll be protected.

Nondetection lasts for 1 hour/level and if cast with Blood Wish would last for 15 hours at Viserys' current level. By casting it on himself, anyone trying to use Divination spells against him would need to beat a caster level check of 30. That's not easy at all, and damn near impossible for anyone below 11th level.

And we can have Tyene use False Vision to make it seem to anyone attempting to Scry us that we are somewhere in Westeros, or the North, or the Plane of Fire, etc.

Telepath Dany can use her Mind Blank on Viserys during the planning sessions, as well as during the day leading up to the invasion. Even most gods would have issues getting through that.

And we have a Divination proofed room in the Shadow Tower, which also exists on its own Demiplane. That alone is doubly effective, as anyone trying to use Divinations across Planar boundaries has to contend with more difficult checks to succeed.

Basically, we have several options which all work together in such a way that they can be layered to functionally make us immune to any Divination performed by anything short of a deity or someone so much more powerful than us that all our precautions amount to so much hot air.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
Agree with Goldfish.

On what to do next month: Most definitely get Sothoryos done. Some higher tier equipment I've been pinning on for a long, long time is close to fruition and we need to know what our next most accessible high level dungeon will wield before we commit to crafting.
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Can't. Gotta stay and squat in our mage's private sanctum. /maximum unhelpfullness

Goldfish said:
Sorry, messing with our memories presses on my Existential Horror button quite firmly.
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Eh, the obvious solution is for you to revel in existential horror more until you realize all our memories are constantly being rewritten by ourselves, that epistemologically we have nearly no way to actually know what is true, and that ultimately all sense of control is an illusion. :V

bigbow said:
Got to say I'm disturbed my the memory stuff too. They make up an integral part of ones personality matrix. Do we really want to hollow that base out of a really important moment for Viserys, as a person and ruler? The conquest of Tyrosh will mark how for the first time he took over something that mattered in the political stage, how he can be a conqueror as well as a ruler, etc etc. Digging a few mines under that core of triumph and satisfaction at the plan seems a bit reckless. Besides, if we dont know whats happening then how do we improvise when it inevitably all goes to shit?

As in, suddenly the Deep Ones break truce and attack San's fleet, and our first feaction will be "what the fuck is he doing out there?!" And "why are all my ships missing!?".
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We'll know where Saan's fleet is. We just think we're sending him to raid north of Tyrosh to put pressure on them. And Richard will know everything since he has mindblank.

More seriously, we should probably focus on the current vote.

@Crake A more straightforward promise that we're going to go and take care of it promptly would probably be best. Less words, more promise of action.
 
Oh whatever, making a vote.

[X] Assure Royce that you have talked to a higher-ranking servant of the Old Gods about it. The Godspeaker has gotten a message that abusing this favor would make us her enemies and her gods are unlikely to protect her from that.
 
How about my somewhat less wordy plan, which unequivocally states why Ysilla is not in any danger, but also explains what fate would befall the Wildlings if they decide not to follow Bloodraven's guidance?
 
Your plan looks good goldfish but for one thing, I think it reveals too much about Bloodraven (and given how inespecific it is, shows exactly how close he plays his cards to his chest). There's bound to be a good reason for his secrecy, and your vote reveals hefty parts (compared to what the world currently knows about him) of it that could lead to bad stuff if someone sucks the knowledge out of Yohn's head.
 
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Goldfish said:
How about my somewhat less wordy plan, which unequivocally states why Ysilla is not in any danger, but also explains what fate would befall the Wildlings if they decide not to follow Bloodraven's guidance?
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Gives away too much inconvenient information, and doesn't promise to fix it. Though that's the same flaws I find with Artemis's version, though his has mildly better infosec, due to brevity.

[] Plan Crake + Promises
-[] "To be perfectly honest my Lord? They would be beyond foolish to ask what would be beyond the means or overruling the expectations of a young girl of a noble house not yet even flowered. What could a girl of her years yet do without personal power at her own command but for the ear of her Lord father? If it was beyond such means and they asked it anyway, foolish are they in the doing, then, since they would answer to her relatives and their allies."
-[] "Such open ended favors exchanged with strangers are not what I would recommend any person make without desperation guiding them, but then anyone could have made such a promise not many years ago and without the eyes and ears of the Gods weighing heavily upon them. The world is closer to the stories of yore than it is to the one either of our fathers lived in, which is why I stress the importance of educating... everyone, about the dangers that we face, both from men who dabble in sorcery, have the ears of gods, or whatever else ilk preys upon the misconceptions of mankind this day."
-[] "As to what can be done? I doubt fire and steel should be necessary to absolve her of the favor owed... but mere words exchanged between they and I. I admit I am interested in what kind of person would even be interested in holding such a promise over the head of a child in her position. But beyond my curiosity I also have a duty. The sister of my friend, close in my council besides, has placed herself in a position that I feel she would not be in if I had only made contact with you sooner. But holding blame like packages to be weighted and passed around... it sounds pointless. Regardless, even if they hold such designs as you imagine upon her, I do not plan on leaving it to fester over your house, but will resolve it promptly now that I'm in the Vale. "

[X] Crake
 
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Diomedon said:
Gives away too much inconvenient information, and doesn't promise to fix it. Though that's the same flaws I find with Artemis's version, though his has mildly better infosec, due to brevity.
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Mine has the assurance that the witch knows not to fuck with us and the implicit promise that we'd deal with her if she oversteps.
That's not enough?
 
Artemis1992 said:
Mine has the assurance that the witch knows not to fuck with us and the implicit promise that we'd deal with her if she oversteps.
That's not enough?
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No. He'll still worry. If she oversteps and his daughter is harmed, our revenge wont be solace (Yohn clearly loves his family). We need to promise to remove the threat.
 
Diomedon said:
No. He'll still worry. If she oversteps and his daughter is harmed, our revenge wont be solace (Yohn clearly loves his family). We need to promise to remove the threat.
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Except we already did it by coming to an agreement with the gods she worships.

Not going to get much better leash than that.

And we don't want to remove one of Uncle's prized pieces out of the blue, especially on a handled situation.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Except we already did it by coming to an agreement with the gods she worships.

Not going to get much better leash than that.

And we don't want to remove one of Uncle's prized pieces out of the blue, especially on a handled situation.
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Information imbalance. Royce doesn't know how much leverage we have over Dalla, nor quite grasp our ability to directly intervene. We'll be seen as a distant king dismissing the close and real threat to his daughter. And we can deal with Dalla by talking to her and "suggesting" she ask her favor now, of something that Ysilla can do (like give Dalla a PfE amulet we gave Ysilla). That wont remove Bloodraven's pawn.
 
Diomedon said:
No. He'll still worry. If she oversteps and his daughter is harmed, our revenge wont be solace (Yohn clearly loves his family). We need to promise to remove the threat.
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We can't more than we have.

Not without Ysilla breaking her oath, which is utterly unacceptable.

We have done our best to make it clear that the favor will be harmless and Waymar will obviously help her fullfill it if he has to. That's all we can do short of killing the OGs themselves to erase the oath.
 
Artemis1992 said:
We can't more than we have.

Not without Ysilla breaking her oath, which is utterly unacceptable.

We have done our best to make it clear that the favor will be harmless and Waymar will obviously help her fullfill it if he has to. That's all we can do short of killing the OGs themselves to erase the oath.
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We can do more. We ask Dalla to ask her favor, now, with us in the Vale and breathing down her neck. Alternatively, we could kill Dalla before she gets to ask her favor, and she likely knows this.
 
Diomedon said:
We can do more. We ask Dalla to ask her favor, now, with us in the Vale and breathing down her neck. Alternatively, we could kill Dalla before she gets to ask her favor, and she likely knows this.
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Is it her favor?
Or to the Clans or the Gods or whoever?
I'm not sure killing Dalla would help the situation much, she has still sworn before the gods.

And we can't find Dalla now and easily.
If she provokes us we will hunt her down, but for now that's quite the investment of effort.
We'd need to give Ysilla the Wayfinder and then fly to find her, I guess.
 
Diomedon said:
Information imbalance. Royce doesn't know how much leverage we have over Dalla, nor quite grasp our ability to directly intervene. We'll be seen as a distant king dismissing the close and real threat to his daughter. And we can deal with Dalla by talking to her and "suggesting" she ask her favor now, of something that Ysilla can do (like give Dalla a PfE amulet we gave Ysilla). That wont remove Bloodraven's pawn.
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"I've talked directly with her gods, and come to an agreement" does point to a big freaking lever.
 
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