- Location
- Australia
Could we be the ones to get Faron maybe as a lecturer at our Royal Military Academy under some kind of weird house arrest/exile.
Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization
Could we be the ones to get Faron maybe as a lecturer at our Royal Military Academy under some kind of weird house arrest/exile.
- Location
- Austria
Anyway, I propose that if splitting them wins we should somehow do 2PW diplopush on them. The early days will determine whom their hate the most and Rival after reunification, and with whom they will trade and stuff.
Or at least 1PW, depending on what else happens and what we need for ConCon.
Or at least 1PW, depending on what else happens and what we need for ConCon.
- Location
- Australia
There are reasons to the delay the constitutional convention. One of our biggest problems going into next turn is that our happiness could be as low 3 and our Militancy as high as 9. Now winning the war should help with both these numbers but a Promote Trade might not be a bad idea.
and as I see no reason a constitutional convention this time would help with either of these numbers. Unlike last time where there was a large public outcry for a constitution this time it's mainly a power struggle between the Crown and the guilds.And an opportunity to build up more PW so we can get more then just the guilds done may not be a bad idea either
Another thing we could do is is use the unique opportunity that the end of the war brings us get in on the ground floor of the new Tortun governments in an effort to maybe be on their side in the next war 5 to 10 turns from now.
To that end I propose next turn we delay the constitutional convention and take.
Diplomatic Outreach - Tortun
Build Espionage Network - Tortun
Promote Trade - Tortun
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VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove RecentConstitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
Yep, simple fertilizer has hit the primitive fan.
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove RecentConstitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
Yep, simple fertilizer has hit the primitive fan.
- Location
- Austria
Nah, militancy is 'fuck Tortun' and 'fuck guilds'; the latter being sentiment some of the guilds, amusingly enough, seem to share.
ConCon about guilds is closest we have to release valve for militancy.
Which was the plan all along: channel militancy into 'fuck guilds'. Accelerationism ho.
- Location
- Europe
[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
We could save 3 points of our PW and get another constitution reform this coming turn.
@Academia Nut if we took the 0 pw peace option, are we giving KH their land back?
@Academia Nut if we took the 0 pw peace option, are we giving KH their land back?
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Personally, I'd exile him to the Most Ancient University of Redshore where he can argue about national identity with our scholars, and possibly suplex scholars at a good quality of life.
Letting it fester is "ignore it for the next few years".
Letting it explode is confronting the guilds NOW, when we don't have the political will, the public is distressed and our quality of life is at a low point.
Neither of them are a good outcome. Threading the needle is getting a few points of reserve Happiness, at least 7 PW based on the last Convention if we want to avoid making undesirable compromises, and a good SoL to back us up
- Location
- Leeds
I know its probably not what you meant but I like the idea that all the universities have ranked themselves accurately by age, even though they don't know when they where founded anymore.
So we've also got things like the fourth most ancient university of Valleyhome.
[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
- Location
- Leeds
The bottom of the ocean?
By letting the issues fester I mean not doing the convention now or next turn, at the latest we should do a convention the turn after the next.
The one PW option afterall doesn't adress the larger issues with the guilds. The four PW option also looks like we won't be able to solve the guild issues without bad compromises, we'd have to take options that gives us PW now in exchange for problems later to reach a good resolution of the guild issues. We'd also not be able to address other issues that have cropped up.
Well, the university of redshore IS definitively the oldest....even if it started as the Gym of Redshore
Ideally next turn, or next mid--turn. Depends on the PW budget and happiness levels.
But we do want at least an IC year for the Precision Guilds that have become Corporations to become successful, which would give real meat to the arguments at the Convention since the guilds-turned-corporations have a lot of power inherited from their previous state. Power to fight the older guilds.
I don't necessarily disagree, but in both wars we basically just fought Poland. A re-unified Tortun would have little reason to be mad at us...though if it's anything like Germany, it will be terrified of the prospect of us teaming up with any power on any of its other front and hate us for the threat we represent, just like we hate it for the same reason.
- Location
- Leeds
Thats why it got to have its most in capitals obviously.
HanEmpire
Delicious
@Academia Nut is there any way to salvage the situation for the Ochruhr? The von Habsburgs were so powerful because it formed dynastic mergers left and right. Maybe we could do the same here? Does any Tortun statelet or Duke-to-be have a female heir that the Ochruhr Emperor or Kronprinz can marry to form a personal union?
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- Location
- Sydney
[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
[X] [Research]Academic Freedom (0/???) [Social]
[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
[X] [Research]Academic Freedom (0/???) [Social]
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Dutch
Bored Spearman of the Wind
- Location
- CET
Welp. There goes the dream.
[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
To the people saying we should just get civic nationalism, that tended to evolve from the ideals of the enlightenment and the revolution. Ideals we pretty much spent the last years vilifying as part of the war.
[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)
To the people saying we should just get civic nationalism, that tended to evolve from the ideals of the enlightenment and the revolution. Ideals we pretty much spent the last years vilifying as part of the war.
- Location
- Trondheim, Norway
[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
I like the idea of having Faron live out his exile with us. Especially if we combine that with genuine efforts to create good relations with Tortuns and helping them rebuild after the war. That way he has no reason to hate us and all reason to help us because that also helps his country. And if we do it well we can get a strong Tortun as an ally once they unify in a generation or so.
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
I like the idea of having Faron live out his exile with us. Especially if we combine that with genuine efforts to create good relations with Tortuns and helping them rebuild after the war. That way he has no reason to hate us and all reason to help us because that also helps his country. And if we do it well we can get a strong Tortun as an ally once they unify in a generation or so.
[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)
[X] [Research] Modern Nationalism (0/???) [Social]
To get good relations with the Tortuns after leading the coalition that broke them up will require a lot of effort. They'll pretty much start out hating us for it.
- Location
- Central Europe
With the 'split & grab' Tortun [Peace] outcome having a sizeable lead there is something else I'm interested to hear opinions on: A long-term evaluation of our alliance with the Kielmyr.
This peace will return the Tortun-inhabited Baltic coast to the Kielmyr. When the Tortun inevitably reunite our allies will be unable to hold this without our assistance. If we side with them on this issue, we will surely provoke the ire of the Tortun, the only land based forced in Syffryn capable of threatening us. I, like many others in this threat, would prefer to stay on good terms with a united Tortun. So either straight up ally them. Or, aim for the more Bismarckian route of negotiating clear spheres of influences, maybe coupled with something like the Reinsurance Treaty, to avoid being dragged into a war against each other by alliance systems.
Should we prove unable to solve the tensions between our current ally and this rising power the Kielmyr could prove the People's Austria-Hungary.
The second important foreign power, when talking in relation to our alliance with the Kielmyr, are the Sketch. Sooner or later we will 'clash' with them. Whether this happens contest takes the form of the 19th century Great Game or the 20th Cold War / Decolonisation. If we intent to keep strengthening the Hung, Black Sheep and Khemetri, we will find ourselves rivaled by the Sketch pretty quickly. The Kielmyr have 'great personal relations with the Sketch' it is doubtful that we could count on their support in a conflict with the Sketch. On one hand that means the serve as a nice buffer state between us and the Sketch. But, on the other hand this means our shortest route to harming the Sketch become unviable. Meanwhile, with their massive navy, the Sketch can project more strength around the whole globe (e.g.: Newport or a future Pacific base could fall before the Patriarch can respond) than we can. At least until the advent and propagation of railways.
At the same time we can be sure that the Sketch will try to make the Tortun their 'Sword on the Continent'.
In conclusion: With the Kielmyr on our side, the Tortun are more likely than not going to be members in any alliance block that opposes us. Personally, I think we should try to solve the issues between these two powers. If in ~20-30 years there is no solution in sight, then we should be ready to drop the Kielmyr.
IMO our highest foreign policy priority should be to avoid massive Ymaryn-Tortun land-based wars, equivalent to WW1 & 2, which in the long-term crippled both of our real life counterparts rise to prominence in favor of others.
This peace will return the Tortun-inhabited Baltic coast to the Kielmyr. When the Tortun inevitably reunite our allies will be unable to hold this without our assistance. If we side with them on this issue, we will surely provoke the ire of the Tortun, the only land based forced in Syffryn capable of threatening us. I, like many others in this threat, would prefer to stay on good terms with a united Tortun. So either straight up ally them. Or, aim for the more Bismarckian route of negotiating clear spheres of influences, maybe coupled with something like the Reinsurance Treaty, to avoid being dragged into a war against each other by alliance systems.
Should we prove unable to solve the tensions between our current ally and this rising power the Kielmyr could prove the People's Austria-Hungary.
The second important foreign power, when talking in relation to our alliance with the Kielmyr, are the Sketch. Sooner or later we will 'clash' with them. Whether this happens contest takes the form of the 19th century Great Game or the 20th Cold War / Decolonisation. If we intent to keep strengthening the Hung, Black Sheep and Khemetri, we will find ourselves rivaled by the Sketch pretty quickly. The Kielmyr have 'great personal relations with the Sketch' it is doubtful that we could count on their support in a conflict with the Sketch. On one hand that means the serve as a nice buffer state between us and the Sketch. But, on the other hand this means our shortest route to harming the Sketch become unviable. Meanwhile, with their massive navy, the Sketch can project more strength around the whole globe (e.g.: Newport or a future Pacific base could fall before the Patriarch can respond) than we can. At least until the advent and propagation of railways.
At the same time we can be sure that the Sketch will try to make the Tortun their 'Sword on the Continent'.
In conclusion: With the Kielmyr on our side, the Tortun are more likely than not going to be members in any alliance block that opposes us. Personally, I think we should try to solve the issues between these two powers. If in ~20-30 years there is no solution in sight, then we should be ready to drop the Kielmyr.
IMO our highest foreign policy priority should be to avoid massive Ymaryn-Tortun land-based wars, equivalent to WW1 & 2, which in the long-term crippled both of our real life counterparts rise to prominence in favor of others.
- Location
- Austria
While true, wasn't it us who seeded such thoughts there in the first place?