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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Leoric said:
... Why are so many picking dhar? Unless you plan to go vampire or full on necromancer then it is a hilariously bad idea seeing as you are still only human.
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Can't speak for others, but in my case it's because going back to Spymistressing seems like an utter waste of Mathilde's talents. Especially if we become distrustful of magic and choose to focus more on mundane solutions or the manpower of Stirland. Because let's face it, even if she's still a Journeywoman, Mathilde has a lot of untapped potential for magic. She was, after all, the only mage in the campaign that failed to colossally screw up.

Also, fridge realization. Maybe it isn't Dhar that makes the necromancers of Sylvania stupid and incompetent. Maybe it's Sylvania/Stirland itself, given how we just saw several high-ranking mages become impressively incompetent the moment they came here to "contribute".
 
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Approval voting for this.

[X] Magic is unreliable, gods are doubly so: always have a mundane solution.
Though tbh, at least Faith doesn't cause you to blow up and engulf a district in white flames. I'd figure that this will cause Mathilde to have backup plans whenever she or her allies use magic. Including a habit of formulating a plan of action in case of enemy mage failure. Strategically, she'll be doing what is taught to do in business school: Take calculated risks (magic) but have provision to minimise fallout of failure, and have planned follow-up to exploit success (or in this case enemy failure).

[X] The best counterspell is, in fact, a blackpowder projectile to the face.
A more tactical and narrow lesson to learn, I'd imagine this would give her an edge on magical duels. It's worth voting for just for the chance of her pulling an Indiana Jones-esq interrupt next time she meets a necromancers, and probably help her bond with any future witch hunters she meets.

[X] Unity brings Strength, Discord brings Failure.
If this vote wins, her experience taking the reins deeply imparts a collectivist mind-set in her. Since this is a positive lesson, Mathilde will become deeply aware that what allowed her to so smoothly refocus and lead was the institutional cohesion of the campaign, its organisational strength and inertia was the glue that kept it together when everything else failed. This would probably result in her attempting to recreate similar institutional strength in any organisation she has influence in, setting out strong and clear processes to support leaders, with traditions to motivate and tie individuals to their duties. It also means that she'll put much more stock in 'disorganisation' seeking to hammer it out before it becomes a real problem.

[X] Complex problems, simple solutions.
In this case, her pragmatism is further reinforced. This mind-set would probably allow her to break up seemingly complex problems into easily solvable chunks. Essentially, this will have her prioritise solutions that can be easily enacted effectively in a short timespan. Why untie a knot when you can simply cut the entire damned thing in twain? In essence, expect her to easily regain strategic initiative through efficient and drastic measures.

[X] The fog of war is a bitch, to all involved.
Here she becomes much more cognisant of the fog of war. And as the saying goes, knowing is half the battle. Being aware of her own fog of war means that she's also aware that her opponents must contend with a fog of war as well. Misdirection, feigning weakness, bluffing, all becomes a new set of tools in her pocket and you can be sure as hell that she won't slack on the information gathering. In her role as a Spymaster, she has a good mindset to conduct counter-espionage activities.

Damage:

[X] Magic is a curse; Magisters and rogue mages alike will eventually die in it's handling.
A deeply pessimistic outlook on magic, means that her use and support of magic will not be optimal since she's perpetually doubtful and cynical.

[X] The Empire is a morass of self-interest, to the point of becoming a millstone around the neck of humanity.
Growing resentment of the Empire, meaning that she will instead see less utility in large institutions, preferring a more hands on approach. Would also mean that any participation in politics for her will be with a sneer on her lips. As such, her unwillingness to play the game (and even seeing it as such) means that she's less likely to get along with the Empire's higher-ups and institutions.

[ ] In the confusion of battle, even the greatest warrior can lose their life pointlessly.
This would mean that she'll despise the unpredictability of battle, and be hesitant to commit hero units, potentially heavily underutilising them.

[X] Mysteries are not worth unraveling - just bury them deeper and call it a day.
In this trauma, expect her to treat the majority of mysteries as inevitable trouble. While a few might be exempted from her wariness (That snake-in-a-prism), she will have little enthusiasm in unravelling mysteries, especially if they look dormant and inactive. So long as no one else gets to exploit them, all is well. Definitely will close some doors but would be an understandable shift in thought, after all, she said no to the mysteries of Castle Drakenhof, and she also knows that curiosity bring low even Supreme Patriarchs. Who is she to question such results?
 
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I'm very much not in favour of the 'fear of the confusion and pointlessness of battle' damage. Undermining Mathildes Brave trait would change one of her fundamental, defining character traits. Not a fan. Nor a fan of the anti-magic or anti-mystery options either, they'll close off a lot of actions and scope for growth.
 
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I am not sure I buy the idea that choosing "In the confusion of battle..." will lead Mathilde to be cowardly and avoid fights. It seems a fatalistic choice that signfies how in the end everything dies, even to the most meaningless of hurdles. I think the focus here is on the pointlessness of it all rather than just death.
 
[X] The fog of war is a bitch, to all involved.
[X] Sigmar abandoned his most worthy follower in his hour of need.

Maybe its just me, but the "anyone can die" things seems kind of boring. Some of the other choices open up much more interesting avenues IMO.
 
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[X] The best counterspell is, in fact, a blackpowder projectile to the face.
[X] Sigmar abandoned his most worthy follower in his hour of need.

If approval voting gets approved I'll probably change my vote a bit but for now this should do.

Also

Evil Necromancer: *laughs evilly and prepares an ominous and terrifying display of magic*
Mathilde: *fires gun*
 
[X] The fog of war is a bitch, to all involved.

[X] What use are infantry, if all they can do is die in droves?

The infantry were useless failures and deserve all the blame. If they had done their jobs they could have at least died instead if Val Hal, but they couldn't even do that right and so a good man died instead. Blame the rabble that is infantry, not heroes or gods.
 
[X] The fog of war is a bitch, to all involved.
[X] Sigmar abandoned his most worthy follower in his hour of need.

Given that the drawbacks are explicitly negative, the leading negative trait is unlikely to amount to much but being very reluctant towards ever taking part in combat now, which is just a bit of a whimper of a conclusion to this campaign.
It can still be done well, of course, but it's both rather inconvenient but also incredibly mundane, which does not really make for an enticing voting option for me.
 
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SITB said:
I am not sure I buy the idea that choosing "In the confusion of battle..." will lead Mathilde to be cowardly and avoid fights. It seems a fatalistic choice that signfies how in the end everything dies, even to the most meaningless of hurdles. I think the focus here is on the pointlessness of it all rather than just death.
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I mean, these are damages with negative results. It could be that fatalism is enough of a hindrance to live up to the term, but in Warhammer I don't think that's the case. It seems entire societies are fatalistic.
 
Alliterate said:
I'm very much not in favour of the 'fear of the confusion and pointlessness of battle' damage. Undermining Mathildes Brave trait would change one of her fundamental, defining character traits. Not a fan.
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Equally importantly, once we do that, then the players will surely attempt to push past the trauma and make Mathilde willing to fight again, to avoid having all that great-sword training be wasted if nothing else. Unless we actually do abandon battle, it just becomes a timer on how long we have to wait before fighting again.
SITB said:
I am not sure I buy the idea that choosing "In the confusion of battle..." will lead Mathilde to be cowardly and avoid fights. It seems a fatalistic choice that signfies how in the end everything dies, even to the most meaningless of hurdles. I think the focus here is on the pointlessness of it all rather than just death.
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Okay, if you interpret it like than then your reason is actually good. Still, i can't agree that this would be the result, but that just comes down to personal interpretation.
WorldSlayer said:
Evil Necromancer: *laughs evilly and prepares an ominous and terrifying display of magic*
Mathilde: *fires gun*
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It probably doesn't matter now, but this scene gets that option my vote.
 
[X] If such rank amateurs could rival the strength of an entire Province, imagine what a skilled hand could do with Dhar.
[X] I, personally, failed to protect Abelhelm.
 
racnor said:
The arguments supporting The Confusion of Battle are missing the point. Yes, it's very plausible. But what does it bring to the plot table? What stories does it open? Because so far it seems entirely like a trauma that closes options rather than opening them. Opposing Sigmar or the empire, OTOH, opens up a fun new range of semi-terrible ideas.

Compared to that, The Confusion of Battle just seems dull to me. It's a obstacle, not a character direction.
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Counterpoint: The lesson learned and trauma gained in this campaign is not the end-all be-all of plot hooks here. I've sat through a few forum quests where so many plot hooks and narratives were spun the story just... gradually lost cohesion. Just because the narrative would be less wide and expansive doesn't mean it can't delve deeper into the plot hooks it does bring up.
 
[X] It's not a great hero who carries the day, but a lot of small men working in concert.
[X] In the confusion of battle, even the greatest warrior can lose their life pointlessly.
 
[ ] Artillery is the King of Battle.
[ ] Dwarves are the greatest ally of humanity.
They were helpful, but not so much as to deserve this sort of praise.​
[ ] The Halflings have proven themselves as a worthy neighbour.
Same as above. You could actually argue that this was a lesson, but definitely not the lesson.​
[ ] If such rank amateurs could rival the strength of an entire Province, imagine what a skilled hand could do with Dhar.
[ ] The dead of Sylvania's prehistory deserve an undisturbed rest.
Don't really see the evidence for this being a lesson.​
[ ] Magic used recklessly has catastrophic effects; great care must be taken in it's handling.
While magic consistently failed both sides throughout the campaign, in most cases it only affected the users personally, and even when it didn't I wouldn't go so far as to use the word "catastrophic".​
[ ] The best battle is one where the enemy never gets a strike in.
[ ] The best counterspell is, in fact, a blackpowder projectile to the face.
[ ] The Black Guard of Morr were the most dependable human asset across the entire campaign.
This may very well be true. The campaign was long and a lot of it was in the hills. That said, they didn't leave an impression on me.​
[ ] Magic is unreliable, gods are doubly so: always have a mundane solution.
[ ] It's not a great hero who carries the day, but a lot of small men working in concert.
While it is certainly true that our hero units failed us all over the place in the end, the "lot of small men" weren't a lot of help to us, when we were trying to take the town.​
[ ] The fog of war is a bitch, to all involved.
For all that Weber, complained about it, I didn't come away with the impression that either army was just flailing in the dark.​
[ ] Expertise matters. And Stirland has precious little of it.
[ ] Mathematics is universal.
[ ] Complex problems, simple solutions.
[ ] Unity brings Strength, Discord brings Failure.
Poetic, but there's not a lot of evidence for it.​
[ ] Other (write in)

[ ] In the confusion of battle, even the greatest warrior can lose their life pointlessly.
[ ] The Colleges of Magic act in their own interest, rather than that of the Empire.
[ ] Sylvanians will meekly accept any tyrant, to the point of complicity in their actions.
[ ] The Empire is a morass of self-interest, to the point of becoming a millstone around the neck of humanity.
[ ] The Morrite compunction against mutilating corpses is the greatest gift necromancers could ask for.
This is just spiteful. And I can't see it being important enough to be what she can't stop thinking of.​
[ ] I, personally, failed to protect Abelhelm.
[ ] What use are infantry, if all they can do is die in droves?
[ ] Magic is a curse; Magisters and rogue mages alike will eventually die in it's handling.
[ ] Sigmar abandoned his most worthy follower in his hour of need.
Weber has every right to be pissed that Sigmar was completely useless in the end, but call Abelhelm "his most worthy follower" is a bit much.​
[ ] Gods will not help us.
Ranald has actively and personally helped us.​
[ ] Mysteries are not worth unraveling - just bury them deeper and call it a day.
Come on. Weber loves her mysteries.​
[ ] You can't trust people to have your back.
You can. But you need to be discerning in your trust. Like, don't trust the Colleges, since their "best and brightest" got themselves killed.​
[ ] I will never meet a man as worthy as Abelhelm was.
What about Markus?​
[ ] Dwarven ale is a valid coping mechanism.
Funny, and alcoholism is a well documented response. But doesn't fit with Weber's, "can't stop thinking about it" thing I feel.​
[ ] Other (write in)

[X] Artillery is the King of Battle.
That stupid mountain with the cursed spring. The town. The castle.
Artillery has been the only thing that has consistently worked for the entire campaign. And it has been the most useful.
My second favorite was "If such rank amateurs could rival the strength of an entire Province, imagine what a skilled hand could do with Dhar", but their own ineptitude did them in, in the end. Sure, Mathilda should be afraid of encountering an actually skilled user of Dhar, but its not a lesson this campaign really had to teach.​

[X] What use are infantry, if all they can do is die in droves?
I'm tentatively settling on this instead of "In the confusion of battle, even the greatest warrior can lose their life pointlessly" because I feel like a lot of our hero units died, pointlessly yes, but they were acting as infantry. Abelhelm died leading a charge. Markus and the Greatswords died leading a charge. One of the Wizard leaders died charging into a cave. All were on foot. And it would be the last two battles that stick with Weber the most.​
 
[X] Artillery is the King of Battle
[X] In the confusion of battle, even the greatest warrior can lose their life pointlessly.
 
[X] If such rank amateurs could rival the strength of an entire Province, imagine what a skilled hand could do with Dhar.
[X] The fog of war is a bitch, to all involved.
[X] Mathematics is universal.

[X] I, personally, failed to protect Abelhelm.
[X] What use are infantry, if all they can do is die in droves?
[X] Dwarven ale is a valid coping mechanism.
[X] Sigmar abandoned his most worthy follower in his hour of need.
 
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LoganBert34 said:
Counterpoint: The lesson learned and trauma gained in this campaign is not the end-all be-all of plot hooks here. I've sat through a few forum quests where so many plot hooks and narratives were spun the story just... gradually lost cohesion. Just because the narrative would be less wide and expansive doesn't mean it can't delve deeper into the plot hooks it does bring up.
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And we have just resolved a pile of plots.What do we have on our plate now besides the watch and experimentation?. Heck, we might even be out of a job soon if the new EC is stupid about it. If there's any time for more plot it's now.
 
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