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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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[X] Plan Limited Social Mobility
-[X] [UH] +1 PW - Advisory
-[X] [LH] 1 PW - Advisory (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Franchise] 1 PW - All titles
-[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Easy non-inheritable titles
-[X] [LO] 2 PW - Anyone with the money
-[X] [Movement] 3 PW - Free Internal Movement (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Assembly] 1 PW - Limited
-[X] [Press] +1 PW - Free ownership with Crown Censorship (-1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Guilds] 2 PW - Fail to increase the regions of their influence (-1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Academy] 1 PW - Yes (Generic Academy I becomes Royal Military Academy, increasing RP generation for Military Techs)

Why you should vote for my plan:
  1. Spends all 8 PW to make the most modern Constitution currently possible
  2. Does not give Veto powers to backward thinking High Nobility
  3. Allows for limited merit-based promotions in the government and military.
  4. Liberalizes the right to hold land (and build things like factories)
  5. Liberalizes the right of movement (so they can go work in factories or settle Siberia)
  6. Liberalizes the right of press (so entrepreneurs can promote ideas of competition)
  7. Liberalizes the right of assembly (so that government cannot oppress and thus vindicate republican propaganda)
  8. Continues to limit the guilds.
  9. Neutral Happiness
Vote for me!
 
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Emral282 said:
The main two problems I have with it is A. I'd really rather give limited right to assembly, if only to be better able to keep an eye on groups that would otherwise go underground and B. The Academy might let us get that edge we need for the next war.
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In addition to allowing "Veto" power to the upper nobles. My plan give veto to no one, (just so i can go Orwell route in about 150 years.)
 
@Academia Nut Will creating the Royal Military Academy increase the RP generation of the current military reform?

Giving the Upper House the ability to veto is giving the Upper House the ability to block those progressive reforms that do not benefit them.
 
I'm sorry, did I accidentally stumble into an election roleplay thread? :lol

Next thing you know we're going to start forming political parties...
 
Emral282 said:
The main two problems I have with it is A. I'd really rather give limited right to assembly, if only to be better able to keep an eye on groups that would otherwise go underground and B. The Academy might let us get that edge we need for the next war.
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Look, that's what the Okhrana is for. If the right to Assembly gave us PW rather than costing it, I would've done that, but as is, no, I do not believe in bottom-up democracy when we've got the revolutionaries literally right on our doorstep.

Too many options, not enough PW :(
 
agumentic said:
[X] Plan Road to capitalism
-[X] [UH] +1 PW - Advisory
-[X] [LH] 1 PW - Advisory (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Franchise] +1 PW - Landed only
-[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Easy non-inheritable titles
-[X] [LO] 2 PW - Anyone with the money
-[X] [Movement] 3 PW - Free Internal Movement (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Assembly] 0 PW - Restricted
-[X] [Press] +1 PW - Free ownership with Crown Censorship (-1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Guilds] 6 PW - Provide no constitutional protections (-2 Temp Happiness, -1 SoL, -1 Active Development)
-[X] [Academy] 0 PW - No
Neatly spending all available PW, this gives us everything for a capitalism that I can see, at the cost of maybe annoying upper nobility and losing on military academy right now. Loses SoL and one temp Happiness due to guilds, but I think we can tank this cost. @Cornuthaum, what do you think?
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That's, uh, practically my plan except for having 2 more political will, one less Temp Happiness, and one less Military Academy, simply from the free speech aspect.

huhYeahGoodPoint said:
[X] Plan Only Government Oppression Allowed
-[X] [UH] +1 PW - Advisory
-[X] [LH] 1 PW - Advisory (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Franchise] +1 PW - Landed only
-[X] [Officers] +1 PW - Easy non-inheritable titles
-[X] [LO] 2 PW - Anyone with the money
-[X] [Movement] 3 PW - Free Internal Movement (+1 Temp Happiness)
-[X] [Assembly] 0 PW - Restricted
-[X] [Press] 0 PW - Crown Only
-[X] [Guilds] 6 PW - Provide no constitutional protections (-2 Temp Happiness, -1 SoL, -1 Active Development)
-[X] [Academy] 1 PW - Yes (Generic Academy I becomes Royal Military Academy, increasing RP generation for Military Techs)

Okay, so I have a few goals with this:

1. BREAK THE GUILDS
2. BREAK FEUDALISM
3. allow merit-based promotions in the military-ish
4. maintain Happiness, because jesus christ

(note that while we lose one point of Active Development, I remain unconvinced that the raw number matters so much as breaking the guilds here).

Really, what I'm more concerned with is that if we put off breaking the guilds for later, when the guilds have been enshrined into the constitution that breaking them gets much much more difficult.
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Also, for everyone voting for Over my knee Dammit can I convince you to vote for mine? You do lose the Freedom of Assembly and Free Crown Approved Speech, but on the upside you don't lose any further Happiness than we already do.
 
Crimson Soul said:
You should probably turn your vote into an actual plan @Cornuthaum. As it is now, the tally is a mess...
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Is it really that bad for me to expect people to ... you know, read what I wrote to explain why I made a plan that way? Aghghgh.

Fine.

*grumpy old man*

Fine.


HanEmpire said:
Does not give Veto powers to backward thinking High Nobility
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I am still undecided about whether or not this is really the best idea. Convince me that we shouldn't give the higher nobility a significant concession when we are going to increasingly infringe on their ancient rights over the next decades, too.
 
[X] Cornuthaum

Keeping in mind that happiness crash is catastrophic. Our militancy is high enough to randomly attack dudes if it drops any further.
Oh and keep in mind that unlike military reform, you can't RUSH social reform without causing widespread instabiity.
 
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
That's, uh, practically my plan except for having 2 more political will, one less Temp Happiness, and one less Military Academy, simply from the free speech aspect.



Also, for everyone voting for Over my knee Dammit can I convince you to vote for mine? You do lose the Freedom of Assembly and Free Crown Approved Speech, but on the upside you don't lose any further Happiness than we already do.
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Uhh, your plan spends PW we don't have. 8+1-1+1+1-2-3-6-1=-2.
 
Cornuthaum said:
Look, that's what the Okhrana is for. If the right to Assembly gave us PW rather than costing it, I would've done that, but as is, no, I do not believe in bottom-up democracy when we've got the revolutionaries literally right on our doorstep.

Too many options, not enough PW :(
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Limited Right of Assembly could give us a good pressure valve on Republicanism and help ensure the people that they aren't just being completely ignored though without sacrificing much of worth.
 
Cornuthaum said:
I am still undecided about whether or not this is really the best idea. Convince me that we shouldn't give the higher nobility a significant concession when we are going to increasingly infringe on their ancient rights over the next decades, too.
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Academia Nut said:
[] [UH] +1 PW - Advisory
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Going with the Status Quo gives +1 PW, meaning the High Nobility isn't expecting anything more. Why give them a concession when they're happy as is? We can give them something down the line when we need to make a crucial reform, instead of weakening the Emperor's power.
 
Guys, you know we have a few days before AN closes the vote, right?

There's no need to just vote for a plan and go, we have time to discuss what is and isn't important and such.
Especially since this is going to be such a formative decision for the Ymaryn.
 
My only real umbrage with @Cornuthaum's plan is that it gives the nobility power to veto the Crown... I'd much rather give them advisory roles until we can conceivably stack the Upper House with people who aren't reactionary landed nobility, the exact people who would want to oppose any kind of liberal reform where possible. And depending on how the veto system works, this could mean that any kind of real social reform ends up dying in the Upper House, since they would never allow it to pass.

... @Academia Nut, would giving the Upper House veto powers allow them to stop us from doing a particular action if the House doesn't like it? Or would it just increase the PW cost of said action?
 
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Raichu1972 said:
Guys, you know we have a few days before AN closes the vote, right?

There's no need to just vote for a plan and go, we have time to discuss what is and isn't important and such.
Especially since this is going to be such a formative decision for the Ymaryn.
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We need to get a proper plan ready now or else the bandwagon will have gained too much momentum.
 
HanEmpire said:
Going with the Status Quo gives +1 PW, meaning the High Nobility isn't expecting anything more. Why give them a concession when they're happy as is? We can give them something down the line when we need to make a crucial reform, instead of weakening the Emperor's power.
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You know what?

Let's risk it for a biscuit. I'm convinced, and have amended my plan accordingly, now to amend my reason why.
 
Your plan looks pretty nice now, but I want to make sure of one thing before I think of changing to it.
@Academia Nut, Does Landed Only mean Landed NOBILITY only or any landowner can vote (Such as those who were able to pay for land without being nobility)?
 
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