- Location
- Austria
Wyrmyn Republic took parts of our land and have cores on a bunch more.
Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization
Wyrmyn Republic took parts of our land and have cores on a bunch more.
- Location
- Austria
To elaborate on the point:
1. We have shown weakness of our military - laughing stock-level weakness. We are pathetic; if it was 1 v 1 of us vs Tortuns, New Blackmouth would be burning already.
2. We let the enemy take parts of our land.
3. They have cores on more of our land.
This, combined, screams to me that they will attack us to retake cores as soon as they think it's feasible.
Frankly, it may well be the case that we should be doing Third Coalition now, but...let's modernize.
But we must have a Third Coalition pounding the enemies within a decade. Because we've let them taste our blood and the only question is when they will come around for the next bite.
1. We have shown weakness of our military - laughing stock-level weakness. We are pathetic; if it was 1 v 1 of us vs Tortuns, New Blackmouth would be burning already.
2. We let the enemy take parts of our land.
3. They have cores on more of our land.
This, combined, screams to me that they will attack us to retake cores as soon as they think it's feasible.
Frankly, it may well be the case that we should be doing Third Coalition now, but...let's modernize.
But we must have a Third Coalition pounding the enemies within a decade. Because we've let them taste our blood and the only question is when they will come around for the next bite.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Developping Industry is much better than doing Military reform this turn.
During the war, we used industry and industry boosters several times to replenish our army. Without development of Industry, we can not do that again.
At the same time, the military reform is useless. It either implements a new doctrine (we have none researched) or boosts research of a doctrine (we're researching none).
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Pride leads to death far faster then anything else at this time.
Considering we are behind and that we only have so many things we can focus on.
We are not modernizing within 20 years, 30 maybe 25 if we really push it, but any faster and we will fly apart.
Legion0047
Retired Shadowrunner.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- God Emperor
cores?
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Reference to Paradox Grand Strategy. Cores are areas of land on which you can make a de jure claim of ownership. Basically, they're candidates for annexation, as blatant landgrabs aren't really favored in this area anymore.
- Location
- Austria
We've been forced to use Industry this way because we were pounded like a drum and were only useful as a distraction so that Sketch can do something actually useful.
Like, I am one of "pacifists" here, and frankly believing we can survive Napoleonic Wars Round 2 without crash modernization of military is straight up delusional - or rather, we can, but the costs will be absolutely ruinous, as it will likely involve throwing bodies into the grinder like candies for no result.
And, since we lack Levee en Masse, we cannot throw more bodies than they - because the ability to gather a lot of people, supply them and organize them is actually a pretty serious feat of military administration, and we suck at it.
We are, even if the last war did not show it due to other polities and abysmal economy of Tortun, lagging behind them way worse than Russians lagged behind Napoleon; and burning our own land while retreating is more expensive Industry-wise than modernizing military in a timely manner.
edit: like, this situation we are in is a textbook "Prepare to war if you want peace" situation...only we will still get war, we just will suffer much less from it if we prepare for it.
Peter the Great begs to differ: he did crash-modernize the entire military while at war with Sweden...well, he started before the war but managed to finish it, although at the start Russians suffered some serious defeats.
Historically 'their' land; makes it easier to justify taking it, especially with proto-nationalism all over the place.
Think of, say, Prussia and "Elsass-Lothringen must be German" thing, and French holding a grudge over that debacle until WW1.
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
But the Swedish are like the failures of eupro/jk
Jokes aside he only won because the Swedish King died via a bullet to the side of his head, while in a trench with his army. (weather it was a lucky gunman or one of his own shooting him is unknown).
- Location
- Austria
But the Swedish are like the failures of eupro/jk
Jokes aside he only won because the Swedish King died via a bullet to the side of his head, while in a trench with his army. (weather it was a lucky gunman or one of his own shooting him is unknown).
Wuuuuut. Nnooo!
Charles XII died after Swedes lost the war. Swedes got fucked in Poltava in 1709, Charles XII died in 1718 in Fredriksten, in a march into the general direction of Norway under suspicious circumstances.
Well, technically Great Northern War lasted longer, but battle of Poltava basically was the end of Russo-Swedish part of it, with Russia achieving decisive victory.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Military reform is not the way to prepare. From the action description :
We're not researching any military doctrines, and we're not ready to implement any military doctrines. Reform now would be useless reshuffling.
- Location
- Austria
I sorely doubt AN would add the option to modernize military which does not modernize military unless one of our academies is researching a new doctrine, especially as the war itself gave progress to the bunch of military techs (from looking at how others do this I suppose).
But for the sake of being sure,
@Academia Nut , would taking Military reform without any academy researching it be a waste of action?
- Location
- Russia
- Pronouns
- He
Nope. Charles XII's death only allowed the chance for peace, because Charles himself was barkrupting and emptying his own country, and never wanted any peace offers. Basically, after Poltava the Swedes were on the backfoot, delayed only by Peter failing his attempt to snatch Charles from Ottoman land. In 1714, they lost many ships in a naval battle, and were slowly losing Baltic lands and Finland over the next few years.But the Swedish are like the failures of eupro/jk
Jokes aside he only won because the Swedish King died via a bullet to the side of his head, while in a trench with his army. (weather it was a lucky gunman or one of his own shooting him is unknown).
The war, however, could not be won decisively until the Swedish homelands were attacked. But Swedes still had enough fleet to deny naval invasions, and walking through Finland is a bad idea (you know, no roads and marshes and generally very bad climate). So it dragged until winter 1720, when Russians just crossed the Botnic gulf over ice and put waste to Sweden proper.
This is what ended the war as Swedish war exhaustion went to max with home regions occupied.
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[x][Agenda] Plan Cornuthaum 1808
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We have plenty of actions which are visible but not useable, just so that we know what to do to use them.
For example, Build Academy, Build Political Support and Transport Infrastructure.
Thanks to Reform Armies, we know that we should research a doctrine.
- Location
- Russia
- Pronouns
- He
We have some progress on the doctrine from war experience, so extra XP probably can directly go into that, as we know of the tech.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
[x][Agenda] Plan Cornuthaum 1808
-[x][Agenda] Start Constitutional Convention - 4 PW Invested (will have PW invested to make decisions during Convention phase, can spend additional PW reserved for the turn)
-[x][Agenda] Claim Kyberi Territory - 0 PW, -1 Temp IC, +2 Max Development, increases required Transport Infrastructure to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status (Note: 0 PW the first time it is used in a turn)
-[x][Agenda] Military Reform - 2 PW, -2 Temp Armies, EITHER accelerate military research for next doctrinal set OR implement doctrine)
Alright. I'm fucking pissed now.
-[x][Agenda] Start Constitutional Convention - 4 PW Invested (will have PW invested to make decisions during Convention phase, can spend additional PW reserved for the turn)
-[x][Agenda] Claim Kyberi Territory - 0 PW, -1 Temp IC, +2 Max Development, increases required Transport Infrastructure to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status (Note: 0 PW the first time it is used in a turn)
-[x][Agenda] Military Reform - 2 PW, -2 Temp Armies, EITHER accelerate military research for next doctrinal set OR implement doctrine)
Alright. I'm fucking pissed now.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Even if that's the case, I doubt it'll complete the Tech in one go.
- Location
- Sydney
[X] Plan Constitution
The Military Reform, while necessary can wait a turn. Military Reform will grant progress to fixing our army, but that is a multi turn project.
It would probably be better to use it implementing a new doctrine, rather than accelerating military research anyway.
Having as much PW available for the Constitutional Convention is best, despite all the other vital things we need to do immediately.
It is very likely there will be military re-organisation options in the convention. That 1 PW could be better spent on taking an extra Constitutional option and delaying Military Reform to next turn
The Military Reform, while necessary can wait a turn. Military Reform will grant progress to fixing our army, but that is a multi turn project.
It would probably be better to use it implementing a new doctrine, rather than accelerating military research anyway.
Having as much PW available for the Constitutional Convention is best, despite all the other vital things we need to do immediately.
It is very likely there will be military re-organisation options in the convention. That 1 PW could be better spent on taking an extra Constitutional option and delaying Military Reform to next turn
- Location
- Austria
You misspelled the century.
Hrm? Why?
All the more important to start early instead of procrastinating on it until it's too late.
We can have peace after we get a reputation of "not worth messing with", not after reputation of "can be pushed around and won't even bother to update their military after that".
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Because we failed utterly and completely at the last leg of the race, lost territory to a republic that will spark Wyrmyn rebellions for decades and unless we choose the right options our society could light on fire, with the Guilds still holding a decent position during all of this.
Overall, it's not a nice update to wake up to.
Absolutely yeah. You can rush reform, but the constitutional status of our martial elite is a factor here because one of the arguments was that the king has no business commanding in the field.
I.e. We'd need to spend PW to open up the officer class to soldiers over nobles. Possibly buying commissions to mollify nobles fearing the army slipping away from them
- Location
- Australia
Do you know what I'm really annoyed about. I'm really annoyed about the rush to do the constitutional convention. If we just wait a turn to fix our industry then we can go in with all political will we need. Instead we are having to decide between military reform or some industry all the while i'm convinced that both would be a bad idea since I think we're going to end up spending political will that we are going to need for the convention.
But it's too late now to change course by the time I even looked at the update the constitutional convention was already winning by a landslide now I think our only hope is to get free political will from consensus.
if I had a time machine to put up post right after the update I probably would have voted like this.
Decrease Navies - 2PW: Navies -1, +1 IC
Suppress Agitators - 1 PW: -1 temp Consciousness, +2 temp Militancy
2 PW: -1 Consciousness, +1 temp Militancy, +1 Militancy
Develop Industry - 1PW: Increases IC and Active Development by 1, -1 Temp IC
Claim Kyberi Territory - 1 PW, -1 Temp IC, +2 Max Development, increases required Transport Infrastructure to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status (Note: 0 PW the first time it is used in a turn)
Military Reform- 2 PW, -2 Temp Armies, EITHER accelerate military research for next doctrinal set OR implement doctrine)
But it's too late now to change course by the time I even looked at the update the constitutional convention was already winning by a landslide now I think our only hope is to get free political will from consensus.
if I had a time machine to put up post right after the update I probably would have voted like this.
Decrease Navies - 2PW: Navies -1, +1 IC
Suppress Agitators - 1 PW: -1 temp Consciousness, +2 temp Militancy
2 PW: -1 Consciousness, +1 temp Militancy, +1 Militancy
Develop Industry - 1PW: Increases IC and Active Development by 1, -1 Temp IC
Claim Kyberi Territory - 1 PW, -1 Temp IC, +2 Max Development, increases required Transport Infrastructure to remove Undeveloped Hinterlands status (Note: 0 PW the first time it is used in a turn)
Military Reform- 2 PW, -2 Temp Armies, EITHER accelerate military research for next doctrinal set OR implement doctrine)
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We can not, not rush our Constitutional convention.
We're at 7 militancy and 4 happiness. Not doing the constitutional convention pushes that down to 3.
The only thing you're going to accomplish is ensuring that we don't have armies, nor new doctrine when the next war occurs.
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- Location
- Austria
We do not have the luxury of time.
Like, what happened now is not!Treaty of Tilsit. Situation may be different, but we have either one or maybe two turns for military reform.
If anything, the two have synergy, with constitutional reform decreasing power of nobility and opening up military to lower classes.
- Location
- Australia
Suppress Agitators Would have kept our happiness at 4.I admit that it would be unsustainable but we would only needed one turn.