A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Snowfire · Jan 25, 2018

Goldfish said:
I get where you're coming from, but I don't think it's a bad thing to let Rhaella know that Viserys knows that she knows about Lya. It wouldn't be difficult for him to discern that she was reading between the lines of everything he's told her thus far.

Others have pretty much replied to this for me. Accepting that we know she knows and that there is a 'relationship beyond friendship' sets up her rationalising it as Lya being our mistress. Not more. Which...then causes some interesting issues when we get to finally talking about Dorne. So...yeah. That.

bigbow said:
... you know what, there's a perfectly good reason we can't have a political marriage with an NPC aristocrat...

You guys remember the status of Viserys' room after him and Lya had a little one on one?

[X] But mother! Lya is the only person I can have sex with without killing the other participant!

R: But that's just not true at all. I'm sure Daenerys would be quite capable of handling you if the need arose!
D: MOM!
R: What?
V: :thinking emoji:
L: Don't you dare.
T: *restraining an actual gale of laughter*

fan550 · Jan 25, 2018

Everyone forgets that our mother's oldest brother or uncle I can remember which married for love Prince Duncan. I am unsure if she would be more for it or against because of that.

bigbow · Jan 25, 2018

Azel said:
I know where you are coming from. The amount of 'democracies' I've seen in fiction who are build entirely out of Handwavium and reinforced with Plottanium is ridiculous.
And I'm not talking about only fanfics and quests there.

Rule of thumb, if you can't be arsed to think about politics, you shouldn't write about politics.

Amen Azel (... am I praying to hell right now?!) the amount of people who think that all the poor downtrodden farmers of a bazillion fictional worlds need to live a better life is a ballot box is... yikes. That's how you get the early history of my republic, with wealthy landlords buying a vote with a chicken. Yes, a chicken. That is what democracy is worth to a 19th century farmer... (and it could have been much, much worse). With the tech base, infrastructure and mindset of a 12th century Feudal Kingdom... yikes.

065tdsa said:
We really don't need to worry about this whole thing with Lya too much, we have the ultimate trump card argument in the fact we can't marry someone who's anything less than a powerhouse or they will die if someone makes a serious attempt at killing them.

We then clarify that when we say serious attempt we mean things like Dragons.

That has the unfortunate corollary that the King's mother needs to also be powerful enough to survive constant assassination attempts by otherworldly horrors... ~~which granted, might just spur her to learn magic harder and faster~~ *get's slapped with newspaper*

Snowfire said:
Others have pretty much replied to this for me. Accepting that we know she knows and that there is a 'relationship beyond friendship' sets up her rationalising it as Lya being our mistress. Not more. Which...then causes some interesting issues when we get to finally talking about Dorne. So...yeah. That.*

Well, that at least buys us time right? We need time for her to continue settling in on the current world after all...

bigbow · Jan 25, 2018

fan550 said:
Everyone forgets that our mother's oldest brother or uncle I can remember which married for love Prince Duncan. I am unsure if she would be more for it or against because of that.

Probably against, Prince Duncan was a freaking disaster for the Targs. At least Lya has otherwordly power to shatter armies and build empires, Jenny of Oldstones was, as far as I can tell, a regular smallfolk woman with all the superstitions and idiocy expected of someone with no formal or informal education who has lived her whole life in a simple, medieval tech farming village. A fun little subversion by GRRM of the 'love can transcend social boundaries' trope.

Edit: That is leaving behind her entourage, which consisted of a Wood's Witch whose prophecy for some reason became the obsession of the Targ's, and which later dreamy, scholarly Rhaegar discovered in a little book... yeah.

Diomedea · Jan 25, 2018

fan550 said:
Everyone forgets that our mother's oldest brother or uncle I can remember which married for love Prince Duncan. I am unsure if she would be more for it or against because of that.

Against. It was the beginning of the end of Aegon V's control over his reign, leading to such things as him permitting her father to order her to marry Aerys (on the word of the friendly "wood witch" that Duncan's wife knew) or causing the tragedy of summerhall in pursuit of enough personal power to achieve the reforms he wanted (his attempts at diplomacy having been thwarted by his children)

Snowfire · Jan 25, 2018

bigbow said:
Well, that at least buys us time right? We need time for her to continue settling in on the current world after all...

Not...really. It's better to just avoid the issue until she broaches it, making it her choice in as much as her asking about the divines was. It's a matter of being prepared for an answer you might not like vs us shoving it in her face. The former is a lot more conducive to a healthy mental state.

mrsean22 · Jan 25, 2018

[X] Snowfire

Duesal · Jan 25, 2018

@Azel @Goldfish

So next month the predominant thing for Vee to be doing was to see to the Hydra and get some Hydra babies to see if Yss could do anything with them, but now that a pegasus foal has come to light I'm inclined to scrap everything we have planned and to send her to go get that foal. Are there any objections?

I mean, it's a pegasus. To help calm it down Vee could even summon a couple pegasi to talk to it and put it at ease.

Arguments of "yet another fetch quest" aside, this is to build up our own empire. Imagine a stable of pegasi for our knights, right alongside the griffons and hippogriffs.

Goldfish · Jan 25, 2018

I really think too much is being made of Rhaella's mental health and the apparent fragility of her psyche. It's just not that big of an issue.

As has already been pointed out, it is trivially easy for us to fix Rhaella if her mind snaps.

Goldfish · Jan 25, 2018

Duesal said:
@Azel @Goldfish

So next month the predominant thing for Vee to be doing was to see to the Hydra and get some Hydra babies to see if Yss could do anything with them, but now that a pegasus foal has come to light I'm inclined to scrap everything we have planned and to send her to go get that foal. Are there any objections?

I mean, it's a pegasus. To help calm it down Vee could even summon a couple pegasi to talk to it and put it at ease.

It seems like an excellent way to get Vee ambushed and killed to me. As we've already seen, the Others are not without minions, powerful ones at that, fully capable of operating quite close to the Wall.

There should be no shortage of flying mounts, both mature already trained specimens and unhatched or immature youths, available for purchase once we visit the Plane of Air.

Snowfire · Jan 25, 2018

Goldfish said:
I really think too much is being made of Rhaella's mental health and the apparent fragility of her psyche. It's just not that big of an issue.

As has already been pointed out, it is trivially easy for us to fix Rhaella if her mind snaps.

Totally ignoring how her children are likely to feel in the event that they botch things so badly that they are forced to fall back on the magic that was required to fix people who were fucked with by Mind Flayer wannabes due to them screwing up at explaining things. But don't worry kids, fixing mom will be trivially easy! Just ignore the fact that you broke her. Emotional components run both ways. Please stop ignoring this.

Duesal · Jan 25, 2018

Goldfish said:
It seems like an excellent way to get Vee ambushed and killed to me. As we've already seen, the Others are not without power or minions, powerful ones at that.

There should be no shortage of flying mounts, both mature already trained specimens and unhatched or immature youths, available for purchase once we visit the Plane of Air.

Obviously Vee wouldn't be alone. And from what we've seen of the text the baby pegasus is flying around south of the Wall, just that its close to the Shadow Tower. I bet it instinctually realizes that danger lies to the North. I think it's at least worth a shot, a few days of investigating.

Goldfish · Jan 25, 2018

Snowfire said:
Totally ignoring how her children are likely to feel in the event that they botch things so badly that they are forced to fall back on the magic that was required to fix people who were fucked with by Mind Flayer wannabes due to them screwing up at explaining things. But don't worry kids, fixing mom will be trivially easy! Just ignore the fact that you broke her. Emotional components run both ways. Please stop ignoring this.

Viserys and Dany aren't run of the mill muggles, but neither are they seasoned psychologists. They would think little of using an already tried and true magic if it could help their mother.

Azel · Jan 25, 2018

@Snowfire, I think everyone is just tired of Rhaella asking question whose answers she can't handle.

ryuan · Jan 25, 2018

Goldfish said:
It seems like an excellent way to get Vee ambushed and killed to me. As we've already seen, the Others are not without minions, powerful ones at that, fully capable of operating quite close to the Wall.

There should be no shortage of flying mounts, both mature already trained specimens and unhatched or immature youths, available for purchase once we visit the Plane of Air.

Maybe just sponsor someone or some group to go there and try their hand at it?

Actually become a quest giver and all?

"Request: Taming the Winged Foal"
"On the far north rumors of a winged foal came to light, manage to find and either capture or tame the winged foal for delivery and receive a reward:"
"Warning: Payment will happen only if the delivered foal is alive and healthy."

Sqweaktoy · Jan 25, 2018

Snowfire said:
Totally ignoring how her children are likely to feel in the event that they botch things so badly that they are forced to fall back on the magic that was required to fix people who were fucked with by Mind Flayer wannabes due to them screwing up at explaining things. But don't worry kids, fixing mom will be trivially easy! Just ignore the fact that you broke her. Emotional components run both ways. Please stop ignoring this.

Eh, so toss up a couple hearts ease at both of them as well

.
I just don't think a breakdown is as likely as you do, to be honest.

BeepSmile · Jan 25, 2018

Snowfire said:
Alright, let's get down to brass tacks here.

[X] Wings Against The Sun
-[X] "Mother, it is my honour to introduce three of the friends and allies I've told you of. Vee, Tyene Sand and Lya, some of my first fellows in magic." Indicate each in turn. "All of them possess powers rivalling my own, and have used them to protect the world from horrors beyond counting."
-[X] "Ladies, may I present my mother, Rhaella Targaryen, Dowager Queen of the Seven Kingdoms."

So, this is basically what @Goldfish has built except without drawing attention to our relationship with Lya in the introduction. There is a reason for this, and it's to do with the longpost I made regarding my fears about her presence. What I want here is to have Rhaella bring up the matter of our relationship to Lya, as that means she's the one behind it and is therefore (theoretically) in control of it within her own mind. Drawing deliberate attention to it is shoving it at her, which I think I've already put enough work into describing why I believe it's a bad idea. That's pretty much it. Keep it simple, and don't draw attention. Let Rhaella go after the answers we know she's going to want, and be prepared for those questions. But once more, leave it to being her choice.

I wonder if "colleague" might not be better than "ally"

And "peers, at the the very least" in magery ('cuz healing is awesome)

Duesal · Jan 25, 2018

ryuan said:
Maybe just sponsor someone or some group to go there and try their hand at it?

Actually become a quest giver and all?

"Request: Taming the Winged Foal"
"On the far north rumors of a winged foal came to light, manage to find and either capture or tame the winged foal for delivery and receive a reward:"
"Warning: Payment will happen only if the delivered foal is alive and healthy."

Bah, that's a great way to lose the foal to someone else. It has to be either Vee or one of the baby adventurers that does the taming.

ryuan · Jan 25, 2018

Azel said:
@Snowfire, I think everyone is just tired of Rhaella asking question whose answers she can't handle.

I'm more tired of the fact that everyone would assume she can't handle the answers of he questions she asks.

Mothers can be made of more stern stuff than you think when their children are involved, and Viserys has too much charisma and relevant skills to put his mouth in his foot.

Snowfire · Jan 25, 2018

Azel said:
@Snowfire, I think everyone is just tired of Rhaella asking question whose answers she can't handle.

I think the adequate response to this lies several thousand pages back in time, well before I entered the quest. People voted to have her brought back. This is one of the consequences.

Note: I'm not saying you voted for this result, I think I remember you saying you didn't, but it's where we are now.

Diomedea · Jan 25, 2018

Duesal said:
Bah, that's a great way to lose the foal to someone else. It has to be either Vee or one of the baby adventurers that does the taming.

Do we have any baby adventurers who could help Vee? Theon (since Moonsong will be on boring punishment duty)? He's not actually wanted in Westeros, since most people think he's dead.

Azel · Jan 25, 2018

Snowfire said:
I think the adequate response to this lies several thousand pages back in time, well before I entered the quest. People voted to have her brought back. This is one of the consequences.

Actually, we didn't. Bloodraven threw that in as a deal sweetener that nobody asked for when we voted to ally with the Old Gods. After the fact even.

We where kinda told that we must ressurect her.

Snowfire · Jan 25, 2018

Azel said:
Actually, we didn't. Bloodraven threw that in as a deal sweetener that nobody asked for when we voted to ally with the Old Gods. After the fact even.

We where kinda told that we must ressurect her.

*blink*

Oh right, character motivations that lie beyond the control of the quest base. My bad.

Duesal · Jan 25, 2018

Diomedon said:
Do we have any baby adventurers who could help Vee? Theon (since Moonsong will be on boring punishment duty)? He's not actually wanted in Westeros, since most people think he's dead.

There's Vee (for obvious reasons), Theon (mystic ranger, has a dinosaur to help with tracking), and Bronn (deadly in a fight). Everyone else is going to be busy, but this is a relatively solid party. They should be able to find the pegasus between Vee and Theon, and while Vee works her magic Bronn stabs anything that comes their way.

EDIT: I was toying with tossing Soft Strider in that party as well, but given we don't even know if Children have souls and can be brought back I don't want to risk it just yet. Either way, this party should be fine.
EDIT 2: Frankly, Vee is basically a one-girl party. She teleports, she heals, her HP makes her a tank, she summons, etc. Vee with someone like Bronn to distract the enemy in melee? Now that's a nightmare.

Snowfire said:
I think the adequate response to this lies several thousand pages back in time, well before I entered the quest. People voted to have her brought back. This is one of the consequences.

Note: I'm not saying you voted for this result, I think I remember you saying you didn't, but it's where we are now.

Viserys would have resurrected Rhaella eventually. It would have been OOC for him not to, and DP would have vetoed any choices otherwise because Viserys felt that strongly about it. The vote was mainly to see if it was the Old Gods we'd turn to for help in that since that magic was so far out of our reach.

The crazy demon · Jan 25, 2018

Snowfire said:
R: But that's just not true at all. I'm sure Daenerys would be quite capable of handling you if the need arose!
D: MOM!
R: What?
V: :thinking emoji:
L: Don't you dare.
T: *restraining an actual gale of laughter*

Actually, I remember DP talking bout this once.

Viserys is alright with the traditional Targ marriage customs, for his descendants thought, he sees himself as too much of a parental figure to Dany to even consider it.

I actually expect to have this discussion eventually with Rhaella, if only as idle chatter once in SD.

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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