Truth is a useful tool, and has the benefit of usually being easier to remember than a lie, but like all tools it's not necessarily useful in all situations.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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Well from a purely rational point of view and assuming that you neither feel nor desire close emotional bonds usually inspired by both evolutionary drives and societal conditioning, and that you also lack the empathy to understand the average human. These are some of the benefits to be gained fromantic a close "romantic" relationship.
1. Sex, although most incidentall due to the ease of procuring this through other means it is a benefit and should be listed.
2. A beard, given the standards set above such a person probably suffers from moderate to severe Psychopathyou or a similar mental condition placing themy outside the comfort zones of other humans who as a net whole are very useful.
3. Backup most such relationships will have the other participants willing to help the other with little to no outside incentive besides the relationship itself, this provides a consistent set of help which can be called upon in times of awkwardness or danger.
These are some of the benefits which can be gained from a consistent romantic relationship and I hope help you in your attempts to use human society to your advantage Jaimie.
If he does find a normal person to have a romantic relationship with, I expect that they won't stay normal long. At the very least I'd expect them to be Dannered; and if they are compatible with it, he does have a spare orange power ring.Of course being a super hero story it also adds a LOT of stress, but that's why I support dating divine beings who can handle themselves.
Like a certain someone who resides in Hades court.
I suspect that any attempt at a "women in the refrigerator" scenario would end up going something like this.
- Location
- California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmm. Paul going to the wedding has got me thinking. Obviously he's a reasonably well known public face, so him getting an invitation isn't completely outside the realm of possibility. But I wonder about the rest of the team. If Paul's going to give Dick moral support, then he's also going to want to bring Wally. But how do you sneak a midwestern high school student nobody into the the biggest celebrity wedding in recent Gotham history. Perhaps some sort of disguise will be in order?
Also, why do I foresee it ending with Paul having to subdue a drunk Dick and Wally before they cause a scene?
@Mr Zoat, will any of the other Team members be going to the wedding? And if they are, how?
Also, why do I foresee it ending with Paul having to subdue a drunk Dick and Wally before they cause a scene?
@Mr Zoat, will any of the other Team members be going to the wedding? And if they are, how?
- Location
- Canada
I'm assuming you're joking, but in case you're not. What would make you say that he doesn't have actual friends? If he didn't like his peers he wouldn't be able to use his ring as effectively to help them, in a lot of the choices he has made stem from the fact that he likes his peers.As I understand it, Paul has realised that he has no actual friends, and he doesn't really like any of his peers (At the very least, he looks down on them). He doesn't have any family. Desperate for companionship, he's decided to get a significant other, because by conventional standards that's considered a high level of intimacy.
What he doesn't realise, I think, is that typically long lasting romantic relationships start as platonic ones, and like all fulfilling relationships take time to develop. Years, I'd say. So he's chasing after the end result instead of planting the seeds of true friendship.
Yet another example of asexual superiority.
As far as I know lots (if not most) relationships start quickly (0-2 weeks), after meeting the person, it coming originating from a deep friendship or years of knowing one another is something you're more likely to see in rom coms.
I'm trying hard to stay civil, but I'm hardly polite enough to not let some of my annoyance leak through.
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Don't be absurd. If Paul wants to go unnoticed, he'll wear stylish orange and black framed glasses.
Also, I'm pretty sure the generally fortified constitution of a Dannered enhancile will prevent drunk shenanigans. Assuming Alfred doesn't take care of it, first. You know he'll have that shit on lock.
- Location
- United States
As I understand it, Paul has realised that he has no actual friends, and he doesn't really like any of his peers (At the very least, he looks down on them). He doesn't have any family. Desperate for companionship, he's decided to get a significant other, because by conventional standards that's considered a high level of intimacy.
What he doesn't realise, I think, is that typically long lasting romantic relationships start as platonic ones, and like all fulfilling relationships take time to develop. Years, I'd say. So he's chasing after the end result instead of planting the seeds of true friendship.
Yet another example of asexual superiority.
How very insightful of you. I think I understand a bit better.
You misunderstand. It is not the fact that he lied; it is what he lied about. He lied about his age, something that is really stupid. For some dumb reason, he thought that lying about being eighteen was a good idea. Why? We will never know, and that is what is so dumb.
What makes it even worse is that Grayven, for all of his assholishness and manipulativeness and infuriating arrogance, is still more honest than Paul about this. And nothing happened to him at all. I mean, Zatanna had to be let down, but at least Grayven's not trying to lead her on like Paul is.
What is there to explain? Lying is bad, and truth is good. Such is is the way of the universe. There are absolutes in the universe that you do not question.
Being dishonest is always a harmful thing. If you want to lie, you have to accept that you will be hurting yourself (for committing a sin) and the other person (for manipulating them). If you can live with that, then by all means, hide those Jews. Nobody cares if you hurt Nazis.
Patronizing, on the other hand, is a form of insulting someone, where you pretend to be nice when in reality, you are just asserting your superiority over them. Not fun.
And yes, I would totally tell a little girl that Santa Claus wasn't real. Because I am not a asshole that lies to little girls.
What Rem was saying is that, yeah, he is friends with his other teammates, but he has nobody his age he can talk to.
- Location
- Bay Area
Nah, that's obviously false.
I think you're having a fundamental error in picking up the context of the story. If that's the case, I'll try and help break it down for you:
Beginning of fic(BofPaul) Paul is susceptible to Orange light. BofPaul proceeds to use Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs as a basis for controlling his Orange Tinted Urges. BofPaul gets placed on a team of new heroes. BofPaul focuses his self-interest to helping the team. By helping the team he helps himself. BofPaul has now made vital emotional investments in the team. BofPaul believe that the membership to the team is based on age, because all the members of the team are adolescents. BofPaul, because of ring affected bodily modifications can pass for someone of that age group. BofPaul, who does not want to have his emotional center shifted lies because he believes that his age is important to staying with his in-group.
Middle of fic Paul doesn't want to deal with all the hassle of correcting all the assumptions people have made about him, so he doesn't. This is now coming back to bite him in the ass, as decisions sometimes do.
Please don't double post. Secondly, please don't be silly. We've a direct viewpoint into the characters motivations. His stated desire to have a girlfriend is because he's feeling horny.
eta -
[train coming to a screeching halt noises]
You. Go reread the fic. You've fundamentally misunderstood a core philosophy.
Consistently, from basically the first post, there has been a theme that you cannot control other people's choices, you can only provide them the tools to help themselves.
Paul is not leading Zatanna on. Paul has never lead Zatanna on. That she'd develop a crush on him is completely natural when you consider the fact that through an incredibly trying emotional ordeal, he has been her rock. From the moment he met her, he's been nothing but courteous and respectful.
Paul is attractive and nice to her. She's developed feelings for him.
Unless you're honestly suggesting that he should be an asshole to her to get her to stop liking him, there really isn't anything for him to do. He's repeatedly expressed friendship towards her. Friendship and nothing more.
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Rem
fite me
I'm half-joking.
What friends does he have? The team? They're a bunch of kids, and he's barely interacted with them lately. When he does, it's mostly business or mentoring. He's certainly not keeping up with what they're doing with their lives; Wally caught him off guard with his progress in alchemy IIRC.
At the very least, he doesn't trust them with his problems. Part of this is that he has too many secrets, but he's also on an entirely different level in terms of maturity.
I was mostly referring to the other Leaguers and myriad adult heroes, who he never really interacts with. When he does, either they view him as a teenager or he looks down on them (The other Lanterns, J'onn, Supes).
I'd love to know what rom coms you're watching. I'm not even being sarcastic; usually those shows are really shallow.
But I'll concede that you might be right. I based my assumption on the people I know, which in hindsight is a logical fallacy. My apologies.
- Location
- Canada
From a narrative standpoint he initially omitted his age because this had to be a young justice story. After that he lied because he was afraid he would be removed from the team and implying he was 18 was what he went with to not be removed from said team.
Paul isn't trying to lead her on, her being lead on is a side effect of his existence.
I'm not sure if you're just messing up with us of if it's really what you are like. But there's no such things as absolutes you actually have to explain why you believe something is X.
Do explain how I'd be hurting myself by lying and if it's a sin, then it just means that sin are of little importance and committing them isn't inherently a bad thing.
Eh after reading the definition of the word it wasn't exactly what I meant, it's more that it's hard to really try to explain something to (for example a child) without superiority over them. It doesn't have to be fun, but it does work.
See I'm confused to deal with one such as you, either you're fucking with me or it's way of thinking that's fucked up. How in the world do you translate telling little girls that Santa isn't real as not being a shit bag.
Yeah no what he said sounded very different from that.
Don't double post, use the edit button.
I have two major points here that I feel are important enough to bring up. The first is on the nature of narratives. Even in extremely long form narrativeso such as this one of the key things to do is to establish a working baseline so that you can then change it and have characters grow. In this case a good deal of the first year was taken up establishing Paul'said relationships with his teammates. For example movie night showed a pretty good cut away view of off time. Once you have established this baseline there usually isn't a need to bring it back up unless it effects the narrative, i.e. something is changing or an event requires a revenue. Also we only see Paul for an average of less then one tenth of his time spent, so although it's not brought up likely he has continued to enjoy off time with his Team, who are his social circle.
The second point I'd like to bring up is on the nature ofor relationships, there are times when in a social circle there is an older more mature member often these people with help and assist with problems when they can. Often this role is filled by a teacher or parent, this does not mean it cannot be filled by someone of a (presumed) similar age, or that these people would not be equals.
My final point is this almost all of Paul's free time is currently going into figuring out how to beat Nabu. This probably has had a detrimental affect on his free time, and has certainly affected the focus of the story.
Damn. He's striking out left and right.
"Damn it! Am I going to have to clone a reverse gender of myself?!"
Eris pops up as a female Paul.
"You rang?"
- Location
- United States
You just used an absolute when you said "there's no such thing as absolutes". In any case, my words should speak for themselves. Lies are inherently harmful and can come back to bite you in the ass. The Truth is inherently good because it sets you free. You can twist a lie, but you cannot change Truth.
There is an absolute good and evil in the universe. No matter what religion you believe in, what is good and what is evil remain the same.
Well, if I had a child, I certainly would not lie to him about a jolly old elf giving her presents. My mother told me that Santa was fake before I was ten years old, and I was happier for it.
Prove it.
- Location
- Canada
Them beings teenagers hasn't stopped him from considering them as friends in the first place, even if we'd have issues with doing that in his place, it doesn't seem to be a problem for him. I have to assume that a lot of the time we don't see is spent with them or with dealing with Nabu.
Well the point of sharing your problems with others is so they can help you with them, if they can't you'd just be burdening them pointlessly.
It's true that he doesn't have a lot of adult friends, but he has (on top of my head), Diana, Constantine and Guy. Considering they're not his only ones I'd say it's not dramatic.
That's the joke though, I don't watch them cause they're (the grand majority of the time) shit.
Yeah I have friends that became romantically involved after knowing each other for a long time, but generally the reason they weren't together for a long time was because one was already taken. But the larger part generally meet someone new at some event (often being a meeting with friends of someone in the group) and they quickly get together with the person.
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- United States
Well, once you can prove that love isn't just sex + close friendship. Oh wait...
Well, I know that God exists because the Catholic church He founded exists and is still going around spreading the Good News. Since God is basically goodness and light and love in the form of an omnipotent being, He would have a pretty good idea of knowing right from wrong. But that's not the answer you would accept is it?
Well, I also know that moral relativism - the belief that all beliefs are valid and equal to each other - is complete rubbish. And if that fact is true, then that means there are some morals all human beings have in common. Could it be that those values - the freedom to worship, the right to live happily and in peace, the right to have something to call your own, the right to be treated with respect and dignity as all human beings should be - are related to an absolute good and evil?
Firstly: I made no claims as to what love is. Secondly: You're using self referential to prove itself. Try again.
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Good point. Topic dropped.
- Location
- Lynn, MA
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Ah well that explains that. I think we can all agree to safely ignore the ravings of the extremely religious.
No need to be rude.
Two things one, the fact that something exists and has been given the explanation that it exists because of a certain predetermined factor is not proof that such a factor is the reason the thing exists. The really easy example of this is that Hinduism also exists, that Hinduism also has a God that created the world.
Two that is not what moral relativism is. Moral relativism would be more closely expressed as the idea that no one moral standpoint is any more correct than another as all moral standpoints are defined by their view of the world.
Another way to put it would be
"Moral relativism is the view that moraljudgments are true or false only relative to some particular standpoint (for instance, that of a culture or a historical period) and that no standpoint is uniquely privileged over all others."
This quote is brought to you by the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, a peer reviewed resource with an extensive section on the subject. I would suggest a more thorough review of the subject before making or expressing any more judgments.
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- Earth
Calling relationship enthusiasts 'vocal' is misleading, especially as it implies others providing comparatively more subdued input are 'not vocal'. It's more accurate to say they are 'overly vocal' and positively inclined, while the 'average' audience members undoubtedly have more varied and overall less positive opinions. Though of course that's only to be expected. The shipping demographic tends to be extremely passionate, expressive, and outspoken.
Nothing in the post was advocating a decrease in character interactions. Rather, it was proposing that less time be spent on creating and detailing (occasionally notably unlikely) scenarios where women almost become engaged with Zoat's SI in romance.
Rather, I'd prefer to see more character interactions that qualify as memorable socialization.
Little of interest happened in this snippet, and there was barely even any conversation between OL and Selina. I would be interested to see a good exchange between Selina and Paul, but the fact is that didn't happen, and much of this update could have been marginalized without anything of value being lost in their interaction (good portion of it was unnecessary description of setting, and a fair part of the dialogue was the kind of boring small talk made with people you barely know). Even if the next update and several afterwards contain the two them continuing to converse, this chapter had quite a bit of fluff.
And that's the main criticism. Too much fluff, in several forms, and fairly often taking the form of shipping fluff. You can defend fluff, everyone has their preferences, but don't dress it up as compelling character interaction.
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