- Location
- Hampden Park
It's an abbreviation of 'specification'. Isn't it?
Lyle Dox wasn't.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- America
Shouldn't be know by now that if he doesn't know what something is that looks weird that he should automatically stop them or move away?
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
While I don't see any logical problem with this idea, I don't think it's the most likely possibility. He spends huge amounts of effort to improve the world, spends most of his time with people associated with the most famous celebrities ever, and no one from the future has any records of him? Possible, but implausible.
I think the simplest explanation is that at some point in the future, someone has the means and motive to erase all records of the SI's existence from the Earth. He may do it himself, or maybe someone else did it, but I think intentional erasure is more likely than him simply never making it into any surviving records when lots of other people did. If the records were spotty enough that people like him aren't known about in the future, his presence wouldn't be notable compared to various other people he hangs out with. Truggs notes that the SI specifically is never mentioned in the League mission reports he has access to, while he presumably has heard of every other member of the Team, even the less important ones. Otherwise Truggs would have no reason to be suspicious of the SI in particular.
No idea how the whole Orange Twilight thing from Kadabra's future would work, but he doesn't know himself how it happened either, and Kadabra hasn't stated that changing the future is impossible.
Silverias
Seeing is Believing
- Location
- Squiddy Places
I'm more inclined to believe that his status as an out-of-universe person means that he's not showing up for time travelers.
The idea being that time travel basically puts you in a different universe (see: Dragonball Z).
This is supported by the season 2 details involving Impulse. Timeline changes do not propagate "instantly" like they should, even if things change. Also, for some reason, the target of the changes (The explode-y guy who kills the flash in the unaltered timeline) KNOWS that the timeline changed, and knows what didn't change.
The idea being that time travel basically puts you in a different universe (see: Dragonball Z).
This is supported by the season 2 details involving Impulse. Timeline changes do not propagate "instantly" like they should, even if things change. Also, for some reason, the target of the changes (The explode-y guy who kills the flash in the unaltered timeline) KNOWS that the timeline changed, and knows what didn't change.
- Location
- Somewhere out there
A quantum interpretation:
People are themselves quantumly entangled with the world they're in. Causality is part of the evolution of the wavefunction, and nondeterministic events put the system as a whole in a superposition of states -- an omniscient observer outside of the system could compute the probability of the various possibilities that might be seen if they were to peek into the universe. Depending on your interpretation of quantum mechanics, the act of peeking in either forces the system into a single consistent state (Copenhagen), or it entangles YOU as well into the system so you only can see one version of the wavefunction (Everett). In either case, someone else calculating from the outside can make predictions of what you're probably seeing. In this scenario, time travel that's actually capable of making changes represents someone partially disentangling themselves from the wavefunction (if you were to COMPLETELY disentangle then you couldn't aim your destination, it would be wholly probabilistic) and then re-entangling somewhere else, which gives you the ability to screw with the probabilities of other events. Changes don't exactly PROPAGATE in this system; they just happen everywhere and everywhen at once. This provides an explanation for why time traveling insulates your own history from the changes you made -- the mechanism that lets you go to a different point in time at all disconnects you from causality.
This is more or less equivalent to a multiple timeline model.
However, it does imply interesting things... like the possibility for a time traveler to bump into a parallel version of themselves from another possible future...
People are themselves quantumly entangled with the world they're in. Causality is part of the evolution of the wavefunction, and nondeterministic events put the system as a whole in a superposition of states -- an omniscient observer outside of the system could compute the probability of the various possibilities that might be seen if they were to peek into the universe. Depending on your interpretation of quantum mechanics, the act of peeking in either forces the system into a single consistent state (Copenhagen), or it entangles YOU as well into the system so you only can see one version of the wavefunction (Everett). In either case, someone else calculating from the outside can make predictions of what you're probably seeing. In this scenario, time travel that's actually capable of making changes represents someone partially disentangling themselves from the wavefunction (if you were to COMPLETELY disentangle then you couldn't aim your destination, it would be wholly probabilistic) and then re-entangling somewhere else, which gives you the ability to screw with the probabilities of other events. Changes don't exactly PROPAGATE in this system; they just happen everywhere and everywhen at once. This provides an explanation for why time traveling insulates your own history from the changes you made -- the mechanism that lets you go to a different point in time at all disconnects you from causality.
This is more or less equivalent to a multiple timeline model.
However, it does imply interesting things... like the possibility for a time traveler to bump into a parallel version of themselves from another possible future...
- Location
- Somewhere out there
It is, yes, but you don't put a full stop after "cab" even though that's short for "cabriolet" -- many abbreviations become words in their own right.
It's not just about OL himself, though. It doesn't seem like anything he did is part of the historical record either. All the time travelers we've see so far seem to come from a universe where he never existed.
I mean, there's various versions of the Legion of Superheroes, but I can't really imagine any of them coming from the world that Orange Lantern is working to create. Just as a fairly basic point, they don't use much magic and their technology in general, while certainly advanced, doesn't seem 1000 years worth of advanced.
- Location
- Hampden Park
Alright, I'll change it.
- Location
- texas
I believe the legion flight belts work on the same principles as the legion flight rings- By use of valorium, a Nth Metal alloy, to generate anti-gravity.
So more like Hawkman's nth metal than Rocket's kinetic belts.
Although if valorium isn't an alloy to spread the Nth alloy around, Brainy deserves a demerit for not making full use of Nth metal. Nth metal can control all four fundamental forces of the universe- gravity, electromagnetism, strong, and weak nuclear forces.
Pursuant (part 22)
- Location
- Hampden Park
Um
Get back to you
The Coluan folds his arms behind his back and walks closer to the barrier between me and the rest of… Wherever this is.
"To a cursory inspection he appears to be the correct species and sex, and I would not expect you to risk moving the Atomic Axe. Still, I do notice a few differences which might suggest that you have managed to bring back-" He turns his head towards the other three. "-entirely the wrong person."
The black haired chap shakes his head. "Superman arrested Nyeun about thirty seconds after he appeared in their time. They had him in a maximum security prison."
"The Kryptonite bomb?"
"Didn't affect him."
The Coluan turns back to me, a mild frown on his forehead. "Curious. And you couldn't recover him? From an early twenty first century prison?"
The blonde woman sighs. "From an early twentieth century prison improved by superheroes and magic. Yes, we might have been able to get him out, but we would probably have been detected. We decided that leaving him there was less dangerous."
"You may have been right. But who is this?"
"'This' is the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps. And you must be Brainiac Five. Which makes you-" I point to the blonde woman. "-Saturn Girl, and you-" I point to the Durlan, who shifts to an orange/brown skinned, antenna-and-pointy-eared humanoid form. "-Chameleon Boy, and you…" I point to the third member of the Legion's snatch squad. "Um. Ferro Lad?"
"Cosmic Boy."
"Really?" I frown. "You control magnetic fields and you're not named after a magnetic metal?"
"How do you even know about that?"
"How do you not know about me?" Huh. "Okay, I didn't mean for that so sound quite as arrogant as it did, but I'm relatively well known in the twenty first century and I'd have thought that at least some record of.. me would have survived."
**What can we risk telling him?**
Saturn Girl's mental voice. Given that she's clearly at least in her late teens, perhaps I should question the 'girl' part of her name. On the other hand, Cosmic Teen and Chameleon Youth still use 'boy', so at least they're being even handed about it.
**Absolutely nothing.** I don't remember whether Brainiac 5 is a descendent of Vril Dox or not. Though given how long it has probably been, it's certainly not impossible. Assuming that he ever has children. **The time line has already been disrupted enough. Anything we tell him-.**
**Sorry to interject, but…**
Brainiac twitches. "You're a telepath. It would have been useful to know that."
"No, but I've spent enough time around M'gann that-." Blank looks. Either they haven't heard of her either, or they've learned poker faces pretty quick. "M'gann M'orzz? Miss Martian?" No sign of recognition. "I've spent enough time around her that I've.. sort of.. got a feel for it. Look, is there any chance you could send me back? I had a lot of projects on the go and I'm.. not really clear what I'm supposed to have done?"
Brainiac regards me for a moment. "Our historical records make no mention of you, but they do make mention of the Orange Lantern Corps."
"Oh! Right! Right. You're from the Kadabra timeline."
"Explain."
"Abra Kadabra? From the sixty fourth century? He told me that at some point Larfleeze's construct lanterns leave Vega and tear apart the Reach. Which won't happen now… Um. Then? Because Larfleeze is in therapy and the Orange Central Power Battery is on Maltus. I mean, we are going to destroy the Reach, but we're not going to assimilate entire planets to do it." No obvious reaction. "Which means that either the history he learned was inaccurate, or I've already altered his past."
"Why are you trying to alter the past?"
"No, no. Look: I'm not a time traveller." Oh. "I lost a few seconds using a singularity beam, and my interstellar FTL involves warping space so.. I've time travelled a little bit. But I didn't deliberately go back with the aim of changing something. I'm just.. trying to help people."
"Aside from Abra Kadabra, are you aware of any other time travellers in your era?"
"Nylor Truggs. He-."
"Hey Paul."
I grimace, then turn my face towards my neighbouring cell. "Mister Truggs."
Cosmic Boy looks his way as well. "Nylor Truggs is from our era. He was the first person we thought of."
"Not exactly quick doin' anything about me, were yah?"
Chameleon Boy snorts. "Seems like we found you pretty quick to me."
"Yeah… Guess I got kinda comfortable behind my scry wards. Though, hey, Paul? I'm kinda hurt you were gunna hand me over that quick. This set-up seems ripe fer a good ole nemesis team up."
"You're not my nemesis, and I want to make sure that we haven't ruined time before doing anything."
"He's in denial."
Brainiac 5 glowers in a way I've seen Dox do more than once. "Enough. Orange Lantern, what h-?"
"I don't see why I should listen to you. I wanna talk to a lawyer. An' another t-."
Brainiac 5 holds up a remote control of some kind and presses a button. Truggs falls mercifully silent. "Orange Lantern, this is a matter of the greatest importance. The time line which gave rise to my comrades and me is being erased. I assumed it was the result of an attack and dispatched Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy and Chameleon Boy to prevent it." Brainiac's eyes stop focusing on me. "Once I detected Persuader going back in time, I concluded that his assassination of Superman was what threw the present off-course. But the assassination attempt failed, and our timeline has still not been restored even in part. Something else is happening, and our historical record makes no mention of you. But without having used a chroniton destabiliser, it shouldn't be possible for you to change history. You should simply be part of the original flow of events unless acted on by an external entity."
"Thank you..? So.. I can go home?"
"Not unless we need to send someone else to your era. We don't have unlimited power."
"But surely a few Bleed Torsion-."
"We're existing in a finite personal time line. We continue to exist and we don't run into our past or future selves, but we can't draw upon any resources outside of its area. And no, we can't use our own time travel technology to get around that."
I frown. "Why no-."
"Are you a level twelve intelligence?"
"I'm not totally sure what that means, but I don't think so."
"Then it's fairly unlikely that you'll be able to suggest anything I haven't already considered. And rejected."
"Including going back in time a day and staying there, incorporating yourself in the new timeline?"
"Yes. Letting everyone we knew remain as never having existed is not an acceptable outcome."
"But why should I prefer them to the people who exist in the new time line? I mean, if all it takes is a little bit of exotic radiation to erase a universe full of people and replace it with something else it probably happens all the time."
That's a bit disturbing, actually.
"Time isn't quite that fragile. Now…" He takes a few steps closer to the barrier. "Talk to me about the time machine in the Hall of Justice."
Get back to you
The Coluan folds his arms behind his back and walks closer to the barrier between me and the rest of… Wherever this is.
"To a cursory inspection he appears to be the correct species and sex, and I would not expect you to risk moving the Atomic Axe. Still, I do notice a few differences which might suggest that you have managed to bring back-" He turns his head towards the other three. "-entirely the wrong person."
The black haired chap shakes his head. "Superman arrested Nyeun about thirty seconds after he appeared in their time. They had him in a maximum security prison."
"The Kryptonite bomb?"
"Didn't affect him."
The Coluan turns back to me, a mild frown on his forehead. "Curious. And you couldn't recover him? From an early twenty first century prison?"
The blonde woman sighs. "From an early twentieth century prison improved by superheroes and magic. Yes, we might have been able to get him out, but we would probably have been detected. We decided that leaving him there was less dangerous."
"You may have been right. But who is this?"
"'This' is the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps. And you must be Brainiac Five. Which makes you-" I point to the blonde woman. "-Saturn Girl, and you-" I point to the Durlan, who shifts to an orange/brown skinned, antenna-and-pointy-eared humanoid form. "-Chameleon Boy, and you…" I point to the third member of the Legion's snatch squad. "Um. Ferro Lad?"
"Cosmic Boy."
"Really?" I frown. "You control magnetic fields and you're not named after a magnetic metal?"
"How do you even know about that?"
"How do you not know about me?" Huh. "Okay, I didn't mean for that so sound quite as arrogant as it did, but I'm relatively well known in the twenty first century and I'd have thought that at least some record of.. me would have survived."
**What can we risk telling him?**
Saturn Girl's mental voice. Given that she's clearly at least in her late teens, perhaps I should question the 'girl' part of her name. On the other hand, Cosmic Teen and Chameleon Youth still use 'boy', so at least they're being even handed about it.
**Absolutely nothing.** I don't remember whether Brainiac 5 is a descendent of Vril Dox or not. Though given how long it has probably been, it's certainly not impossible. Assuming that he ever has children. **The time line has already been disrupted enough. Anything we tell him-.**
**Sorry to interject, but…**
Brainiac twitches. "You're a telepath. It would have been useful to know that."
"No, but I've spent enough time around M'gann that-." Blank looks. Either they haven't heard of her either, or they've learned poker faces pretty quick. "M'gann M'orzz? Miss Martian?" No sign of recognition. "I've spent enough time around her that I've.. sort of.. got a feel for it. Look, is there any chance you could send me back? I had a lot of projects on the go and I'm.. not really clear what I'm supposed to have done?"
Brainiac regards me for a moment. "Our historical records make no mention of you, but they do make mention of the Orange Lantern Corps."
"Oh! Right! Right. You're from the Kadabra timeline."
"Explain."
"Abra Kadabra? From the sixty fourth century? He told me that at some point Larfleeze's construct lanterns leave Vega and tear apart the Reach. Which won't happen now… Um. Then? Because Larfleeze is in therapy and the Orange Central Power Battery is on Maltus. I mean, we are going to destroy the Reach, but we're not going to assimilate entire planets to do it." No obvious reaction. "Which means that either the history he learned was inaccurate, or I've already altered his past."
"Why are you trying to alter the past?"
"No, no. Look: I'm not a time traveller." Oh. "I lost a few seconds using a singularity beam, and my interstellar FTL involves warping space so.. I've time travelled a little bit. But I didn't deliberately go back with the aim of changing something. I'm just.. trying to help people."
"Aside from Abra Kadabra, are you aware of any other time travellers in your era?"
"Nylor Truggs. He-."
"Hey Paul."
I grimace, then turn my face towards my neighbouring cell. "Mister Truggs."
Cosmic Boy looks his way as well. "Nylor Truggs is from our era. He was the first person we thought of."
"Not exactly quick doin' anything about me, were yah?"
Chameleon Boy snorts. "Seems like we found you pretty quick to me."
"Yeah… Guess I got kinda comfortable behind my scry wards. Though, hey, Paul? I'm kinda hurt you were gunna hand me over that quick. This set-up seems ripe fer a good ole nemesis team up."
"You're not my nemesis, and I want to make sure that we haven't ruined time before doing anything."
"He's in denial."
Brainiac 5 glowers in a way I've seen Dox do more than once. "Enough. Orange Lantern, what h-?"
"I don't see why I should listen to you. I wanna talk to a lawyer. An' another t-."
Brainiac 5 holds up a remote control of some kind and presses a button. Truggs falls mercifully silent. "Orange Lantern, this is a matter of the greatest importance. The time line which gave rise to my comrades and me is being erased. I assumed it was the result of an attack and dispatched Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy and Chameleon Boy to prevent it." Brainiac's eyes stop focusing on me. "Once I detected Persuader going back in time, I concluded that his assassination of Superman was what threw the present off-course. But the assassination attempt failed, and our timeline has still not been restored even in part. Something else is happening, and our historical record makes no mention of you. But without having used a chroniton destabiliser, it shouldn't be possible for you to change history. You should simply be part of the original flow of events unless acted on by an external entity."
"Thank you..? So.. I can go home?"
"Not unless we need to send someone else to your era. We don't have unlimited power."
"But surely a few Bleed Torsion-."
"We're existing in a finite personal time line. We continue to exist and we don't run into our past or future selves, but we can't draw upon any resources outside of its area. And no, we can't use our own time travel technology to get around that."
I frown. "Why no-."
"Are you a level twelve intelligence?"
"I'm not totally sure what that means, but I don't think so."
"Then it's fairly unlikely that you'll be able to suggest anything I haven't already considered. And rejected."
"Including going back in time a day and staying there, incorporating yourself in the new timeline?"
"Yes. Letting everyone we knew remain as never having existed is not an acceptable outcome."
"But why should I prefer them to the people who exist in the new time line? I mean, if all it takes is a little bit of exotic radiation to erase a universe full of people and replace it with something else it probably happens all the time."
That's a bit disturbing, actually.
"Time isn't quite that fragile. Now…" He takes a few steps closer to the barrier. "Talk to me about the time machine in the Hall of Justice."
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HanEmpire
Delicious
Typo:
affect
Lone Courier 6
Devilish Fool
- Location
- United States of Quests
... Why is there a link to gameFAQs?
Metroidwave
Strength To Lean On
- Location
- Somewhere in Colorado
Because it's relevant to the current topic. Anyone feel like explaining the plot of FFTA?
- Location
- Right here, where else would I be?
They have message boards too, not just faqs. That post is a particularly famous bit of discussion about Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, and the morality of its main character.
--edit
Ok, basically as far as I can remember... and keep in mind I haven't played the game in years...
The world of Ivalice in FFTA is basically a sort of lotus eater machine, made by a magic book that Marche and all his friends get sucked into. Marche's main quest is to work his way back to reality, and he kind of ignores the fact that this implicitly means he'll be killing all the friends he makes in the book-world, who are by all evidence, completely sentient.
Also, one of Marche's friends is in a wheelchair in reality, but can walk in the book, and there's a pretty big part of the plot devoted to convincing that friend that's not a good thing
Also, one of Marche's friends is in a wheelchair in reality, but can walk in the book, and there's a pretty big part of the plot devoted to convincing that friend that's not a good thing
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- Location
- texas
Oh well. I had the amusing idea that this might be the Legion of Superheroes of Earth Prime.
Just for the evil idea that Paul gets back home, one thousand years too late to do him any good.
I guess I'm just mean like that.
Just for the evil idea that Paul gets back home, one thousand years too late to do him any good.
I guess I'm just mean like that.
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Because it's a link to a thread about Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.
If you beat the game the universe the story takes place in is erased from existence.
- Location
- 'Murica
I really hope he suddenly teleports out at some point, just to see the look on their faces. Maybe reappear immediately behind Mr. Twelfth level intellect.
- Location
- Oblivion
If the tech there is anything like what's seen in the JLU crossover episode he might not be able to.
Shadow Archon
Protoss Preserver
- Location
- Louisiana
I see we're getting to the meat of this wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff.
So, because of things like magic, gods, and physical embodiment of concepts, time here works like the silly Sound of Thunder movie, with time waves affecting one thing at a time until the future updates completely?
...Well, time sure here is wonky. I prefer the Trunk's method myself.
So, because of things like magic, gods, and physical embodiment of concepts, time here works like the silly Sound of Thunder movie, with time waves affecting one thing at a time until the future updates completely?
...Well, time sure here is wonky. I prefer the Trunk's method myself.
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esotericist
A Weary Hand
- Location
- Lacey, WA
Mayhaps, but they don't appear to have any historical evidence of him, and it seems like his method of stepping out of local existence is comparatively unique. They may not have a means to stop it specifically.
Of course, that doesn't necessarily imply they don't have the means to react promptly. Coluans gotta Colu.
- Location
- New York
I was looking forward to that new interview on the angel plot and now the entire timeline is screwed up with a very interesting premise. I don't know how to describe the feeling, but it is like ordering chocolate ice cream but getting double serving of cookie dough ice cream. Sure there is more and still awesome but I wanted my chocolate and I am left mildly .
.
I think you mean "I lost" here.
- Status