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its just that his history of unethical/immoral behaviour predates the sensdep, and was in fact directly responsible for it, and we have no word (yet) on just how LONG he's been manipulating his chosen host's to isolate them/make them more tractable- and he went after someone who WASN'T responsible for his condition. the only thing that made Mr neilson's case stand out is he CAUGHT Nabu systematically sabotaging his life in the act,likely unapologeticly, and ceased acting as Dr Fate.

That last part is incorrect. Mr Nelson put Nabu on a shelf somewhere, and then continued to act as Dr Fate without him after fashioning his own helmet.

I don't know of any official name for it, I like to call it the Helm of Kent!



If Paul manages to take care of Nabu without going public, Paul could conceivably find the Helm of Kent and give Zatarra a power up and allow the JL to avoid public controversy at the same time.
 
an you honestly say that you don't understand why Nabu isn't entirely unjustified here? Seriously?
Jamie, I talked about this in one of my earlier posts here.
I can honestly say that Nabu's actions are understandable. I can empathize, and shudder at the mere thought of being locked inside my consciousness for decades on end. But just as Dr. Sivana's frustration and anger with the human race over his attempts to better the human condition through his inventions for decades and getting stymied can be completely justified without granting any validity whatsoever to his attacking Captain Marvel and random civilians. The raw deal he got sitting on the shelf grants absolutely no legitimacy to his taking Giovanni as a Permanent Host against his will.

Nabu is currently a villain whose Start of Darkness was shown to the reader. That makes him sympathetic. It does not make his current actions right according to either morality or pragmatism. If he does not trust the Chaos Worshipers golem offer, ask for the raw research developed by the Royal Atlantian Research Whatever It's Called directly from fellow member King Orin, and start developing his own. Or start searching himself for a Willing Host. Or do unspeakable things in the name of greater good to the captured magicians he absconded with, who do shit like get hundreds of thousands of kiddies killed or attempt to put out the sun, altering the inviolate parts of their very being to make them suitable hosts. He has other option open to him as much as he denies it that do not require placing any great deal of trust in people who have burned him before.

And his situation being contained in the helmet is one of his own making. He was alive. He lived his life, and his live was approaching it's end on this plane. But he wanted to remain. I have no problem with this in principle. But as it turns out, he used a crappy method of remaining relevant. That is his fucking problem. If we can find contempt and condescension for all the other desperate people who are willing to do unspeakable things to others for a little more time on this Earth, he can be condemned also.

(which is one of my buttons, ill admit. you want revenge? great! fine! terrific! go after the person who actually WRONGED you, not people who just happen to KNOW them!)
To be fair here, Giovanni's hands are not squeaky clean here. He was the Magic Specialist of the Justice League, who made the disposition of the Helmet a League Matter™.
"What's going to happen to the Helmet now? I think Wallace just wants to stick it in the trophy cupboard, but that doesn't seem... really.."
"That… Will be a matter for careful consideration."
Pretty sure he could do the job, but I don't think Mister Zatara likes him, and it looks like the League will be deciding what happens to the Helmet."
So he is more deserving of being Nabu's Meat Suit than Zatanna is. The problem being more deserving than someone else is not the same thing as saying he actually deserves it. If this was a case of "Hey guy who pulled rank on deciding the 'Nabu is stuck in a Helmet and getting pissy' issue, thanks for 'volunteering' to be my substitute host while I find a permanent one myself, since you were not up to the job!" it would be more fitting. But as it stands, the punishment does not fit the crime at all.

*shudders* any word on what he did to those guys, anyway?
Well it was not mind fucking all their offending personality traits away and using them as hosts, I can tell you that. This is one of the issues here, If Nabu was to be a pragmatic Hard Man Making Hard Choices While Hard, sacrificing one measly person in exchange for all the good Dr. Fate does in the world, do it correctly. I mean these mages helped pull off the Split the World spell. Mojo, they got. And they are not doing beneficial to the greater good with the whole being Evil Supervillians actively trying to make the world worse. Giovanni was a positive force in the world before Nabu. Saying this is a forced choice between Giovanni or Dr. Fate has always been a false dilemma when there are all these mass murdering mages you are keeping imprisoned anyway.

Fourteen. Zatanna was fourteen.
Zoat, I can practically hear the popcorn you are munching on as you sit back and watch the fireworks.
 
Tbh, I am more interested in reading the confrontation of Paul vs Nabu. It's been building for a long time and seeing that the Oceanus thing is getting to be kinda huge, I am getting a bit impatient. Sorry.
 
That last part is incorrect. Mr Nelson put Nabu on a shelf somewhere, and then continued to act as Dr Fate without him after fashioning his own helmet.

I don't know of any official name for it, I like to call it the Helm of Kent!



If Paul manages to take care of Nabu without going public, Paul could conceivably find the Helm of Kent and give Zatarra a power up and allow the JL to avoid public controversy at the same time.
i stand corrected >.>
 
Made perfect sense to me. The passageway appears more manmade, and it appears more even.
I mean yeah, I thought of that eventually. It just wasn't my first thought, and in fact required some specific thinking on "what did he mean here?"

And can I remind you that I'm saying this? ME! HAVE I MENTIONED HOW MUCH I HATE BEING THE VOICE OF REASON!?
I want to give you a [hug], but I know just enough to believe you'd take my arm off for it without knowing enough to tell if you actually would.
 
Pretty sure he did.
Insisting to speak to someone who might actually listen to him?
He already tried everyone he thought was likely.
Appealing to his fellow Lords of Order to light a fire under the butts of people so that they'll actually start looking for a new host?
They have their own problems to deal with.
Controlling Zatanna's body only long enough to get himself a host who actually consented?
Who? And what assurance would he have that they would follow through? After all the assurances he got earlier he was rather low on trust.
Actually giving Paul's offer to make a magically-powerful golem body the consideration it deserves?
See low on trust. Plus isn't this shifting the goalposts a bit? The question was what could he have done without enslaving anyone. Paul only made the golem after Zatara was already controlled.
Heck, even enslaving one of the magic users he literally just captured and who really have no room to claim moral superiority over Nabu?
I'm pretty sure they have to willingly put the helmet on for it to work. Plus it was indicated in canon that the host can effect Nabu's subconscious. Having an evil guy as a host is a bad idea for this reason.
 
Titanfall (part 27)
20th June
11:24 GMT


I

**Superboy, explain.**

Black Canary sounds irritated. Given how Greek deities behave I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that Helios' offer of help was eleventh hour… Or so cryptic that Kon only just got it.



If that's actually what happened.

**I don't think I can. I just know-.**

**Irrelevant. Sir, do we stay or go? If go, you'll need to call in Green Lantern C for the evacuation.**

She screams in the direction of a block of Saremite infantry sheltering from arrows and more exotic blasts behind water shields of my design, breaking their formation and leaving them vulnerable to fly by strikes from the Hawks. **Go!**

I transition to Kon. **Ready?**

His jaw tightens slightly. **Guess I have to be. How long-**

I put a construct barrier over his eyes, then warp.

Warping towards the sun is.. not fun. Quite aside from the problems you get with intervening obstacles -which is why standard Green Lantern Corps protocol suggests using it for inter-system travel only- and the time distortion effect, you're essentially getting hit in the face with a laser for the entire journey. There are about 150 million kilometres between the Earth and the Sun and I need to cover that space in a few seconds. The sun's output at that distance is usually about 1.361 kilojoules per square meter every second, so if I do it in a second that's about two hundred billion joules right in my face. Even in the thirty seconds I'm planning to do it in, that would still be a constant 70 million kilowatts for the duration. And that's ignoring the fact that it actually increases as I get closer.

Sure, I'm not dumb enough to actually do that. Since I'm bending space/time anyway I also bend sideways, slipping through space like a mouse down a snake's throat. The warped pocket where Kon and I are is merely bright; the area towards the edges of the pocket is blazing white sunlight. I've tried this once before under Guy's direction and I'm.. still not sure I understand the description of what's actually going on. Still, if it-.

The warp stops, and the sun is…

Hah.

It's a wall of fire obscuring space. If I turn my head, it's like… It's too big for me to be able to see the curve. Somewhere to my left, a plume of plasma that must be…

Gods…

That's amazing.

"Alright, we're here. What next?"

"I'm.. not sure."

"Is there anything I can do to help?"

"No. Just.. give me a sec." He takes a deep breath, then closes his eyes and bows his head. His lips are moving silently in what I assume is some sort of prayer.

Okay. Well, warping back is a good deal easier. Here to the outer atmosphere in one second is no problem at all. I shake my head and turn away from the sun, looking out in the general direction of Earth. A tiny amount of the sunlight that reaches it is bounced back this way. If I look in the right direction I can see what was going on eight minutes ago in really low resolution.

Hm. I know that Earth is unusually active, mystically speaking. I know that Mars has magic users. I don't know how that applies to the rest of the system. Is the idea of the sun as it exists in the Earth's arcane systems the same as the sun-as-it-is? Not like there's anyone living down there who could be using… Sun-magic. He's not… Helios turning up in person -even if he is more personable- probably wouldn't be much healthier for north-west Africa than Oceanus. Unless he's in Human-seeming mode. No, he'd have to fight at full power… Wouldn't h-?

"Warning: plasma density increasing."

When you say 'increasing'-?

"Warning: plasma density increasing significantly."

"
Ah… Kon..?" I turn back towards him. "Are-?"

A coronal mass ejection about a kilometre wide is reaching out for us, launched by… Well, they're usually launched by the sun's natural magnetic activity. This one… I slide my rune stone out of a pocket. Yep, there's a reaction. This was aimed.

Kon himself is wreathed in white fire. It's a little like when he attacked Deacon Blackfire, only more… All-consuming.

Ah. I think I understand the plan. Ring, contact Green 2814 B.

Link established.

The image forming over the ring appears, then glitches in and out. Yes, I suppose that making an orange ring show Ion was asking a bit much. "Guy-. Ion, Oceanus has moved away from the East Coast. The wall is no longer required. We're going to hit him with a coronal mass ejection." I think. "Please move to where he is and create a barrier cylinder around him."

"The wall is no longer required."

"
That's right."

"We understand."

"
Okay, but did you get the res-?"

He disappears. Oooooh, that could be a problem.

"Paul?" Kon looks at me with eyes that are glowing white ovals. "Can you take me back to the edge of the atmosphere? I need to be right above Oceanus."

"Yes. Yes, I can do that. Ssssstand by."

Cross my metaphorical fingers.

Aaaaand warp.

The sun vanishes and the Earth appears behind us. Kon and I reorientate, me creating a construct marking Santo Porto's location beneath us. Oceanus himself is… Not visible to the naked eye, but with a little magnification I can spot him. He's nearly there, the League having mostly evacuated the island. Ms Lance and John are standing at the entrance of the cave…

And Kon's not next to me any longer. There's a plume of burning white as he dives through the air towards his target.

Um.

"Orange Lantern to Justice League..? Superboy's heading for Oceanus and I really think everyone should be standing well back when he hits."

"Wonder Woman to Orange Lantern. What do you mean, 'hit'?"

"Helios set him on fire. It doesn't seem to be hurting him, but he's flying directly towards Oceanus at-" Quick check. "-maximum acceleration. I don't know exactly what will happen when he hits, but I don't advise being there when he does. Has Guy arr-?"

There's a flare of green around Oceanus, followed by a surge of white as he unleashes lightning in all directions.

"Never mind. About… Ten seconds to impact."

"Batman to Justice League. Fall back to five miles' distance."

John and Ms Lance aren't moving. I warp again, appearing at the entrance to the cave as Oceanus… I'm shorter than his fricking toenail! He's walking through the shallows now, stabbing at Guy's barrier with his trident and here comes Kon!

"For Heliooooooooos!"
 
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If go. you'll need to call in Green Lantern C for the evacuation.**
If I go, you'll need to

When OL said 'launch a sunspot at Oceanus', I wasn't expecting it to be the metaphorical version. In the sense Superboy is embodying it, instead of being a literal plume shot from the sun. In hindsight it makes sense though, seeing as it'd take a while to get there naturally.
 
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