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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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uju32 said:
Dude, this is DC , not Worm.
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Not even Worm has that bad of a ratio. At the rate things are going, the fanon is going to result in C-3PO impersonations.

As for DC, it's probably an impression brought about by how every hero seems to have an entire personal rogues gallery.
 
Empiricist2 said:
Actually, while it's on topic, @Mr Zoat are the various super scientists considered metahumans, are they something different, or have you not decided? It always made sense to me that if humans already have some special bit that gives them various physical super powers, then it would be needlessly complicated to have something separate to give some other humans mental super powers.
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There are a wide variety of types of superpower, many of which are not related to genetics. Some very intelligent scientists make devices no one else could conceive of. Are they metahumans? Depends. What definition are you using? There isn't anything like a Tinker shard at work and what they build aren't Wonders, everything they build works by repeatable mechanisms. An alien from a more advanced civilisation could walk into an 'angry' scientist's laboratory and not really be shocked by anything they saw, though they would misjudge the average level of Human technology as a result.
daimahou said:
Ace really wanted to thank her savior in person but people told her he was in another universe.

As if such a silly thing would stop her.
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Kind of would at the moment. Since she's not in the terminal decline stage of her condition she's 'simply' a powerful telepath. That will change, but at the moment she would have no way to follow Grayven under her own power.
 
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Ganurath said:
As for DC, it's probably an impression brought about by how every hero seems to have an entire personal rogues gallery.
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Most metahumans don't actually spend their free time volunteering to work for free as law enforcement, or as criminals ; I remember Guy Gardner used to run a bar for at least some time while he was a Vuldarian, for example.
It's the guys wearing flashy spandex that make the news.
 
Mr Zoat said:
There are a wide variety of types of superpower, many of which are not related to genetics. Some very intelligent scientists make devices no one else could conceive of. Are they metahumans? Depends. What definition are you using?
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I was thinking specifically of the people like Doctors Morrow, Cizko, Ivo, the guy who made the zeta tube original, Leonard Snart, and others similar to them; the ones who made devices so far ahead of their time that modern Earth still hasn't made similar devices decades later, and which had little to no preexisting basis to work from.

Morrow made artificial intelligences capable of near perfectly imitating humans, in addition to having elemental powers, before computers. Did he receive some sort of superhuman boost to his intelligence, or parts of it, from the same source that the various Reach experment kids in Season 2 of YJ received their superhuman abilities? Or was he merely just that good of a scientist/engineer that he could make advances decades if not centuries ahead of his time without aid from any boosts to his intelligence through the 'metagene' or whatever it was the Reach were experimenting on (we don't know that it's actually genetic at all, but let's just use the name for consistency. The thing that randomly gives out super powers to people for no magical/divine/alchemical/alien/technological reason that we know so far).

In contrast, Doctor Desmond was a leader in the field of genetics/biochemistry, and obviously highly gifted, but he wasn't pioneering new technological fields decades before anyone had even conceived of them. He was on the cutting edge, not beyond.
 
uju32 said:
Most metahumans don't actually spend their free time volunteering to work for free as law enforcement, or as criminals ; I remember Guy Gardner used to run a bar for at least some time while he was a Vuldarian, for example.
It's the guys wearing flashy spandex that make the news.
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A fair point, but I don't see the relevance of mentioning that Guy Gardner has never run a bar.
 
Empiricist2 said:
Morrow made artificial intelligences capable of near perfectly imitating humans, in addition to having elemental powers, before computers. Did he receive some sort of superhuman boost to his intelligence, or parts of it, from the same source that the various Reach experiment kids in Season 2 of YJ received their superhuman abilities? Or was he merely just that good of a scientist/engineer that he could make advances decades if not centuries ahead of his time without aid from any boosts to his intelligence through the 'metagene' or whatever it was the Reach were experimenting on (we don't know that it's actually genetic at all, but let's just use the name for consistency.
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How would you tell and why would it matter?
 
Ganurath said:
A fair point, but I don't see the relevance of mentioning that Guy Gardner has never run a bar.
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I said that Guy Gardner used to run a bar as a metahuman.
After losing his GL ring for a while and becoming some sort of half-alien hybrid, he more or less retired for a bit.
He wasn't being a superhero or anything else, just a bartender.

Of course then Parallax shows up and some shit goes down and he becomes a GL again.
But that's par for the course in DC.
 
Mr Zoat said:
How would you tell and why would it matter?
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Not sure how you could tell after they would have received their powers, but if their super science is the result of some sort of power that is granted, it is potentially reproducible. Like the Reach were trying to consistently induce abilities in otherwise regular humans, being able to make normal people into some of the best scientists and engineers in the universe would be rather valuable. Hopefully the torture part isn't a requirement though.
 
Sure, you can plug some into an AI Cybran style to boost their intelligence. Alter their genes or brain structures. Tattoo certain types of arcane runes onto their skin for insight and inspiration. What difference would it make if what you did was 'metagenetic' or not?
 
uju32 said:
I said that Guy Gardner used to run a bar as a metahuman.
After losing his GL ring for a while and becoming some sort of half-alien hybrid, he more or less retired for a bit.
He wasn't being a superhero or anything else, just a bartender.

Of course then Parallax shows up and some shit goes down and he becomes a GL again.
But that's par for the course in DC.
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Oh, so you're saying that he lost his ring, retired to become a bartender as an ordinary human with no alien ancestry whatsoever, then got his ring back when Parallax showed up. Got it.
 
It's unstudied, and potentially easier to do or produces better results with less drawbacks than other methods.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Sure, you can plug some into an AI Cybran style to boost their intelligence. Alter their genes or brain structures. Tattoo certain types of arcane runes onto their skin for insight and inspiration. What difference would it make if what you did was 'metagenetic' or not?
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Now that sounds like an excellent idea. Paul should definitely start mass producing super scientists.
 
arromdee said:
"When I came to Earth 50, I was tricked, so it was leaving Earth involuntarily. Once I was in one non-Earth place involuntarily, going to a second non-Earth place voluntarily doesn't violate my oath".

(If going from one non-Earth place to another counted as violating his oath, he'd be violating his oath any time he even took a step, once he was off his original Earth.)
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Not to mention that Gaia of his world probably didn't see him 'leave Earth a second time' and Gaia of this world hadn't taken his oath.
 
Iron Roby said:
The result:

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I think perhaps that young master whatisname has internalized some misinformation about New York City. </irony>

Mr Zoat said:
everything they build works by repeatable mechanisms.
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See, that always bugged me. Supervillains bent on world domination don't share their tech? Okay, sure, makes sense. The ones that want money could make more of it just selling their stuff. And the heroes...why in the hell aren't they sharing their combat tech with every cop on the planet? If they really want to make a difference, that's going to do more than any Righteous Face Punching.

I can get behind the idea that some fraction -- perhaps a large majority -- of the superscience brigade don't share their tech for one reason or another. But none of them? Not even a single one? How is that possible? For that matter, what the hell does S.T.A.R. Labs do all day? All this incredible tech the JL drops on them to study and what comes out of the labs? Cheap flying cars / jetpacks? Super robotic advancements so everyone can have a robot monkey valet? Superdense batteries that can be used to make electric cars / planes / etc? As far as I can tell, bupkiss. What do you think the donut budget at the Labs looks like? Personally, I'm betting it's pretty friggin' huge.
 
eaglejarl said:
I think perhaps that young master whatisname has internalized some misinformation about New York City. </irony>



See, that always bugged me. Supervillains bent on world domination don't share their tech? Okay, sure, makes sense. The ones that want money could make more of it just selling their stuff. And the heroes...why in the hell aren't they sharing their combat tech with every cop on the planet? If they really want to make a difference, that's going to do more than any Righteous Face Punching.

I can get behind the idea that some fraction -- perhaps a large majority -- of the superscience brigade don't share their tech for one reason or another. But none of them? Not even a single one? How is that possible? For that matter, what the hell does S.T.A.R. Labs do all day? All this incredible tech the JL drops on them to study and what comes out of the labs? Cheap flying cars / jetpacks? Super robotic advancements so everyone can have a robot monkey valet? Superdense batteries that can be used to make electric cars / planes / etc? As far as I can tell, bupkiss. What do you think the donut budget at the Labs looks like? Personally, I'm betting it's pretty friggin' huge.
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All that new tech does nothing for its proliferation. There are plenty of people who would Stonewall all those new tacti all that new tech does nothing for its proliferation. There are plenty of people who would Stonewall all these new tech. And they would have plenty of good reasons. The game is best played when someone doesn't change the rules every 2 turns after all.
 
eaglejarl said:
See, that always bugged me. Supervillains bent on world domination don't share their tech? Okay, sure, makes sense. The ones that want money could make more of it just selling their stuff. And the heroes...why in the hell aren't they sharing their combat tech with every cop on the planet? If they really want to make a difference, that's going to do more than any Righteous Face Punching.

I can get behind the idea that some fraction -- perhaps a large majority -- of the superscience brigade don't share their tech for one reason or another. But none of them? Not even a single one? How is that possible? For that matter, what the hell does S.T.A.R. Labs do all day? All this incredible tech the JL drops on them to study and what comes out of the labs? Cheap flying cars / jetpacks? Super robotic advancements so everyone can have a robot monkey valet? Superdense batteries that can be used to make electric cars / planes / etc? As far as I can tell, bupkiss. What do you think the donut budget at the Labs looks like? Personally, I'm betting it's pretty friggin' huge.
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Robin actually called Trickster II out on that in the comics. Something along the lines of 'You have sneakers that let you run on air. Have you any idea how much money you could make just selling that?'.

The only superhero featured in this story so far who could do something like that is Hardware, and his contract forbids it. Looking down the League list; Batman does, but it's either highly specialist or very expensive, Manhunter's has a completely different tech base and is usually telepathy dependent, Tornado mostly copies Morrow's stuff and Icon doesn't want to interfere with Human development.

The people at STAR Labs are normal scientists trying to analyse the work of genius scientists who thought that keeping notes was for peasants and who hated everyone. Their job is very dangerous and does get results.
 
Bomaz said:
should we simply assume that anything involving messing with time is not so unless specifically told otherwise?
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I think his real point is that we shouldn't assume the writer's universe is formed to our whims rather than his, you know?

Way too often people try to tell me how to write my own stories, and seeing some of the comments on here make me glad to know I'm not the only one.

"Maybe your character should just-" No. "Hey, you're going to make this just like-" No. "Hey, do you mind if I help you write-" No.

Now of course, advice is good, and ideas are fun, and people who legitimately help guide some of the process are awesome. But then you have people who have straight up disagreed with Zoat about the things he himself has decided for his story. These are his rules, on concepts he himself added to the YJ universe. And yet they dismiss it and say, 'No, I think you are wrong.'

Anyways, my main point is that things like fun insights, asking if the author is going to add things, or writing omakes or little mini-chapters are cool. But straight up trying to hijack the story is messed up.
 
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Empiricist2 said:
Morrow made artificial intelligences capable of near perfectly imitating humans, in addition to having elemental powers, before computers. Did he receive some sort of superhuman boost to his intelligence, or parts of it, from the same source that the various Reach experment kids in Season 2 of YJ received their superhuman abilities?
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Well, in the comics, Morrow -
Rechte said:
Not sure if it applies here, but T. O. Morrow's first invention was a device that lets him see into the future.
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Dammit.

Anyway, there's no indication he built such a device here, but he could have built something similar - if his first discovery was, say, some of the techniques he used to create a super-scientist robot with his memories, it's possible that he could bootstrap his way from there. Build a better scientist than you, copy yourself a hundred times and have the copies work together ...

It's also worth noting that Morrow used magical techniques. I'm suspicious that this extends beyond the "elemental powers" thing to the actual AI - they have souls, they seem suspiciously human in outlook at times.

And Ivo trained under Morrow.
Empiricist2 said:
are the various super scientists considered metahumans, are they something different, or have you not decided? It always made sense to me that if humans already have some special bit that gives them various physical super powers, then it would be needlessly complicated to have something separate to give some other humans mental super powers.
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As evidence for this, Barbara Gordon tested positive for the metagene. We don't know if she had the "potential" to become Oracle, but she was at the very least a Batman.

Also worth noting that the various cold guns use the same visual effect; Freeze is both an ice-based metahuman and a cold-based superscientist, while Icicle Jr is an ice-based metahuman and the son of a cold-based superscientist. Killer Frost is an ice-based metahuman, but her blasts still appear to be the same as those of a standard cold-gun.

I'm not saying they're definitely drawing on the same ice-themed powersource, but they totally are.

eaglejarl said:
For that matter, what the hell does S.T.A.R. Labs do all day? All this incredible tech the JL drops on them to study and what comes out of the labs?
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They make those holographic computers, tiny but powerful explosives, and weird transforming motorbikes used by the League. And somebody makes the generic laser guns that are floating around.
 
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