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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Actually, Grayven's biggest defense against his oath-violation will be that it happened in another universe. We know from Paragon, that the Oath requires Gaea to have a 'line-of-sight', so to speak, to the target, so, all he really needs to work on is if leaving on the say-so of a Batman is sufficient.
 
Mr Zoat said:
The people at STAR Labs are normal scientists trying to analyse the work of genius scientists who thought that keeping notes was for peasants and who hated everyone. Their job is very dangerous and does get results.
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I'm reminded of the first Iron Man movie, where Stane is talking to one of his scientists who has been trying to replicate Tony's miniaturized arc reactor, but hasn't been making any progress. Stane bellows his infamous "Box of Scraps" line, and the scientist replys "Well, I'm not Tony Stark." I see the majority of the people at STAR Labs as that guy. Sure, they're smarter than just about anybody you're going to run across, but they still don't hold a candle to minds like Lex Luthor or T. O. Morrow.
 
Senevri said:
Actually, Grayven's biggest defense against his oath-violation will be that it happened in another universe. We know from Paragon, that the Oath requires Gaea to have a 'line-of-sight', so to speak, to the target, so, all he really needs to work on is if leaving on the say-so of a Batman is sufficient.
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The terms of the oath, if I remember correctly, were Wonder Woman and one other individual of her choosing. While both men are Batman, and both men are Bruce Wayne, they are separate individuals.
 
Ganurath said:
The terms of the oath, if I remember correctly, were Wonder Woman and one other individual of her choosing. While both men are Batman, and both men are Bruce Wayne, they are separate individuals.
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It basically all boils down to how generously Gaea interprets it, really. Metaphysically speaking, they might count as the same individual by Gaea's standards. Or maybe they don't. Or she might just go by "You didn't know it wasn't your Batman, so you're fine". Or maybe she'll go after him regardless of intent. It's hard to tell at the moment.
 
Crimson Doom said:
self=cold
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pfft, you can learn that just by going outside without a coat right now. :rolleyes::p

eaglejarl said:
Sure, but superhero tech isn't boobytrapped. If the Atom has a super suit that can let you shrink to cellular size, why isn't there at least one surgeon out there doing The Incredible Voyage thing every day?
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I don't know what his current origin is, and I know very little about the Arrow/Flash TV version of Atom, but way back when he was first introduced, the shrinking was granted by a strange meteorite. Actually, here ...
DC Wiki said:
While a physics graduate student, Ray Palmer discovered a tiny fragment of white dwarf star material that had fallen to Earth. Investigating matter compression, Ray theorized that if he were to grind a lens from this fragment and focus ultraviolet light through it, he could shrink anything struck by the light down to a fraction of its original size. Ray rushed off to his laboratory, tried the experiment, and found that it worked exactly as he had imagined, with one tiny little catch: the objects he shrunk became unstable and exploded moments later.
A couple of days later, a disillusioned Ray and some friends became trapped in a cave-in while out spelunking. Ray was forced to risk instability and use the shrinking lens on himself in order to escape the cave and save the lives of his friends. For some reason, however, Ray didn't explode and returned to his normal height. In fact, the shrinking lens worked on his body much better than he had expected, and he developed a set of control devices that gave him limited control over his weight as well as his size.
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shrinking and some mass control, that was it. no ranged attacks, no gizmos other than the 'star' fragment in his belt and the controls in his gloves.

In his case, the critical material was in extremely short supply.

Ridiculously Average Guy said:
So, wait, is Grayven cut off from the mantle?
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unknown at the moment. It may have been stripped from him, reset to the start of his mantling, or just temporarily suppressed.

Avernus said:
Earth 50 Scott and Barda don't seem to use godspeech, or at least they haven't yet.
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*starts to contradict, then pauses goes back to check*
huh, I had been thinking there was Godspeech when Grayven was talking to them before, but I just checked and there wasn't. I must have been thinking of his interactions with the Earth 16 versions of them.
 
Even if it doesn't, he had to WILLINGLY leave the system. I consider a lie a form of coercion.
 
Silverias said:
Even if it doesn't, he had to WILLINGLY leave the system. I consider a lie a form of coercion.
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Batman didn't exactly lie, IIRC. He just didn't bother to tell Grayven that the portal was to a different universe. Or that he wasn't the local Batman.

So yeah, leaving the solar system (from his cell) wasn't of his own volition (since he didn't know he was leaving the planet, and had no reason to expect Batman to take him out of the solar system), after which (as far as we know) the Gaea of Earth-16R couldn't see him doing anything that may technically violate his oath.

So unless and until we find out differently from what happens in the story, we have no reason to expect Grayven to be punished by Gaea for anything yet. Yay for sufficient weasel words in oaths.
 
I don't get why people care about the oath so much, even if he happen to break Gaia would need something a creature so powerful to kill him that she wouldn't be likely to bother. And if said creature was indeed strong enough he'd just go "ok bye" and fly off.
 
Sceptic said:
Because people seem to want him to be punished for not being nice. It gets a bit old. Where "a bit" = "very".
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That's not why at all, especially recently. It's speculation because if it does count as him breaking his oath, he's going to have another HUGE divergence from Paragon in that he's going to be leaving the team far sooner.
 
Senevri said:
Actually, Grayven's biggest defense against his oath-violation will be that it happened in another universe. We know from Paragon, that the Oath requires Gaea to have a 'line-of-sight', so to speak, to the target, so, all he really needs to work on is if leaving on the say-so of a Batman is sufficient.
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The Greek Gods in this story seem to be rather forgiving (or at least, reasonable), so the excuse "I was trying to get rid of something that would obliterate all free will on earth" might buy him some traction there.

sockmonkey said:
Hmm, does that make Zeus a furry? I'm pretty sure having sex while in the shape of an animal counts as yiffing.
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... Of all the things I have ever done, or thought I would do, inspiring the question "Do those acts make Zeus a Furry," was not one of them... This is not my proudest day.
 
eaglejarl said:
The funny part is that if DC played fair with physics, the Flash would be by far the most powerful member of the Justice League.

Short form: no one in the League is immune to kinetics, the Flash can run at light speed while carrying things, and relativistic strikes are a thing.

Long form: The Fall of Doc Future. Not my story, and I strongly recommend it for having a very realistic take on the implications of superpowers.
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That was actually shown you know.

 
Honestly though Gaea doesn't have to kill him.

She can do worse and make his life utterly miserable so long as he remains on Earth as only something that controls every bit of nature on the planet can.
 
Vaermina said:
Honestly though Gaea doesn't have to kill him.

She can do worse and make his life utterly miserable so long as he remains on Earth as only something that controls every bit of nature on the planet can.
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Imagine every virus and bacteria in a five mile radius deliberately trying to infect you, the force of a goddess speeding their evolution until they came up with something that can overcome even New God levels of resistance. It's like versions of the flu that are immune to drugs now, except instead of drugs it's godly aura.
 
Sithking Zero said:
Imagine every virus and bacteria in a five mile radius deliberately trying to infect you, the force of a goddess speeding their evolution until they came up with something that can overcome even New God levels of resistance. It's like versions of the flu that are immune to drugs now, except instead of drugs it's godly aura.
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On the weather front we have Volcano's, Tornado's, Earthquakes, Floods, Continual Rain Storms, Tsunami's, and Sink Holes.

And of course the obligatory tripping on roots and Racoon's continually stealing all his stuff.
 
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