Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
[X] Reject (War)
[X] Accept (Private Property, +25 Prestige, Future Instability?, Serfdom?)
I know I won't win, but at least it's a gesture.
I know I won't win, but at least it's a gesture.
- Location
- Huezil
Myeah, sorry @maximillian there will be no fueldalism, it's WARTIME.
[X] Reject (War)
[X] Reject (War)
Last edited:
Gesture for what?
Serfdom? Because that's what it look like. Instead of freeholders, you'll have to deal with unruly nobles.
It's a legitimate vote that is picking one of the QM's offered options. Personally, I'm not a fan of "no private land ownership" and will take the opportunity to making a gesture towards doing away with it.
- Location
- Manila, Philippines
[X] Accept (Private Property, +25 Prestige, Future Instability?, Serfdom?)
For the lols.
For the lols.
Mostly a theoretical notion.
The land is owned by the King(arguably for the People), but it is in fact de-facto owned by freeholders and administered by hereditary nobles.
If you abuse the lands and don't do farming right, then sure the King will smash your head and take your land away.
[X] Reject (War)
At least rejoining the kingdom is on the table now. Not under these terms, but the initial offer is rarely acceptable.
But when the price of war starts to stack up and the Black Sheep start to come to terms with the butcher's bill before them, I want to keep an eye out for terms we CAN find acceptable. I am willing to keep the Blacksheep nobility, just not them having undue privilidge.
And so I think we should spend influence pushing peace every turn. It's unlikely to work at any given point, but if we roll well militarily and roll well on the dice roll for peace terms, we may be able to end the war sooner than otherwise.
At least rejoining the kingdom is on the table now. Not under these terms, but the initial offer is rarely acceptable.
But when the price of war starts to stack up and the Black Sheep start to come to terms with the butcher's bill before them, I want to keep an eye out for terms we CAN find acceptable. I am willing to keep the Blacksheep nobility, just not them having undue privilidge.
And so I think we should spend influence pushing peace every turn. It's unlikely to work at any given point, but if we roll well militarily and roll well on the dice roll for peace terms, we may be able to end the war sooner than otherwise.
I would have accepted the proposal if not for the private property.
This said, Aranfan outright said that Black Sheep is a wink to the ultra feudalistic original Black Sheep, thus I expect lack of private property to be just as much of a none starter to them.
[X] Reject (War)
Can we stunt? I believe that if we send a refusal, but have our heir deliver it and invite them to the capital to discuss terms, we can avoid war and negotiate the terms of integration. The representation and governorship do not seem to be issues since they have been ruling over the land and all governors have representation in court. If we let them know that this one demand is unacceptable and were invited to continue negotiations, I believe they would accept the invitation. It would be a huge opportunity for both us and the khan if we started negotiations.
Can we stunt? I believe that if we send a refusal, but have our heir deliver it and invite them to the capital to discuss terms, we can avoid war and negotiate the terms of integration. The representation and governorship do not seem to be issues since they have been ruling over the land and all governors have representation in court. If we let them know that this one demand is unacceptable and were invited to continue negotiations, I believe they would accept the invitation. It would be a huge opportunity for both us and the khan if we started negotiations.
The likelihood of Black Sheep feudal lords giving up lands to peasants is nil.
Yes, but they also have had seriously rebellious nobility for a while now, having already lost one king to internal violence when things went badly. How bad does the war have to be before someone just under the current king of the Black Sheep decides that ruling everything would be better than owning things outright?
Because that's what victory in this war looks like really - Us doing enough damage to the Black Sheep that they cannot continue to exist as a nation, falling to infighting and backstabbing, and then our old system being pressed back into power vacuum.
Last edited:
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The problem with accepting is that it destroys our long-term stability, shatters our centralisation, increase the chance of regaining delusional levels of arrogance and turns the question of if there will be a Ymaryn Civil War into a question of when and how often. Choosing to avoid a war now isn't worth destroying our civilisation later.
The Black Sheep want to keep their noble privileges and this offer is them trying do to retain them without a fight. If we try to make them give their privileges up, they will fight us rather than surrender them.
The Black Sheep want to keep their noble privileges and this offer is them trying do to retain them without a fight. If we try to make them give their privileges up, they will fight us rather than surrender them.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
[X] Accept (Private Property, +25 Prestige, Future Instability?, Serfdom?)
I think that some of the problems within the Ymaryn Empire come down to the fact that it already has de facto Private Property in existence. After all, what do you call all the families that have controlled the land, or been served by the families on the land that those families have controlled, for generations but something that may as well be private property? And changing something that is de facto can be much harder than if it's de jure. After all, you're fighting against tradition rather than law.
So I'm voting for this because I want to introduce the concept of Private Property... Then use it's existence in one part of the Ymaryn Empire to look over all the other parts to identify if it already exists there. After which, start a massive law reform to create something that is closer to the spirit of what our 'communal property' was meant to be. Rather than what it is now.
That said, I know I'm not going to win that fight. So instead I'll be hoping that we do get a more acceptable peace offer from the Black Sheep that can serve a similar, if not as great, role.
I think that some of the problems within the Ymaryn Empire come down to the fact that it already has de facto Private Property in existence. After all, what do you call all the families that have controlled the land, or been served by the families on the land that those families have controlled, for generations but something that may as well be private property? And changing something that is de facto can be much harder than if it's de jure. After all, you're fighting against tradition rather than law.
So I'm voting for this because I want to introduce the concept of Private Property... Then use it's existence in one part of the Ymaryn Empire to look over all the other parts to identify if it already exists there. After which, start a massive law reform to create something that is closer to the spirit of what our 'communal property' was meant to be. Rather than what it is now.
That said, I know I'm not going to win that fight. So instead I'll be hoping that we do get a more acceptable peace offer from the Black Sheep that can serve a similar, if not as great, role.
KlinkerKing
Man bites dog?
- Location
- The Lion's Den
Oh boy, Maximillian strikes again! Yeah, that's a hard pass on the 'Fuedalism' (sic). It's funny when "public roads are theft" is a meme, it's less funny when a large portion of our country may or may not do this.
[X] Reject (War)
[X] Reject (War)
I also wonder if we are going to get an option to embargo the Western Wall.
We control Trelli. We are the only OTHER power who shares their sea with them. Blocking them from trading through the straight would do serious damage to their ability to have an economy. It would get worse still if we used some of our troops to harass any overland trade that tried to go around us.
We control Trelli. We are the only OTHER power who shares their sea with them. Blocking them from trading through the straight would do serious damage to their ability to have an economy. It would get worse still if we used some of our troops to harass any overland trade that tried to go around us.
Private property worked out alright in Paths of Industrialization, with AcademiaNut.
What reasons do we have to believe it would fail here in contrast?
What reasons do we have to believe it would fail here in contrast?
We have specific examples from the QM in the form of the Germanians, as well as the direct statement that it will change civil war from a possibility to a certainty, with the winner of the war becoming more important after each one and starting up again when another province decides it wants to run things.
Internal stability is our major strength. I don't want to give it up to avoid a war. Keeping our lands super productive due to being militarily undamaged due to war is a major driver of our prosperity. We JUST finished fixing up the damage caused by the Khan, and we are still not done yet.
Last edited:
- Location
- Huezil
The Answer? That was the Double Crown, not the Ymarin.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes.
Also different situations. In PoI, the Ymaryn (and their culture) failed to survive the Collapse while here, the Ymaryn (and their culture) did survive it.
Last edited: