We will be once the guild industry repairs itself. It's effectively +2.5 income. Right now that money is being reinvested in the economy and getting our industry going again.
Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Also this. All this talk about how selling guns influences our foreign policy is irrelevant. With the exception of getting naval support from the Khem and most recently helping the Pam with their reforms, all of our diplomacy has been based about selling guns as we either sell the guns or we go looking for someone with the intent of selling guns to them. Our foreign policy has been that sell guns for money because we need that money and gun sales are only reliable way of getting more money.
The Khem royalists disliking us is pretty irrelevant when our concern is making money. It doesn't even match which faction we sell to, we just need to make money by selling guns and we can afford one of the factions disliking us.
Just to be clear, this is incorrect. The QM has confirmed that this decision won't satisfy Txollan King.
Yeah, but I can't think of something better to do with them and the King is going to be satisfied by the infiltration action in the plan.
And he said it would work in theory, but that pike and shot was the wrong unit type to be effective at it. They can at least garrison towns and cities and free up more of the local army to patrol to try to stop raiders.
It also ensures that Max doesn't somehow turn around and reverse his retreat.
If I had something better for them to do I would do that instead. I don't.
- Location
- Minnesota
If you swap the personal action to supporting the Honor of Elites, Tinshore action I'll throw an approval vote your way. Also you need a X2 on the second sell bombards action for the tally to count it properly.
The guilds make the luxuries we sell, but any money they make goes back into reinvestment. We lost the ability to re-invest in the guild ourselves since the previous king passed away. We also only have an effectively one slip per city on the Yllython Sea to build warships and trading ships.
A very nice source of income. It's like having five provinces with 0.5 each, except we get better cash flow. Or it's like having Txolla, Hathattya, Trelli, and Tinshore thrown in. Or enough to support 5 banner companies costing 5 each.
I didn't realize how big our guild income really is. But damn we're spending money like water.
- Location
- Minnesota
Vynta would be a better Sell Bombards customer than Kus minors as their action is full on profitable.
Going to be honest, I've decided I don't really like true neutrality, anymore, at least not when it comes to our prospective allies. I'd rather support a side that ends up happy with us (even if it's a bit less honest) than piss off all Khemetri for three generations.
(I'm more than willing to sell to both sides of the not-Italians, however.)
Feel free to adopt the plan if you want. I'll just unvote.
...
(It's probably an awful idea for some military reason I'm not aware of.)
...
[X] Plan Intriguing Maximilian
-[X] Authority: Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
--[X] Rebel Alliance
-[X] Influence: Honour of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[X] Influence: Diplomatic Contact, Ruma: Who are the Ruma and what do they want? (???%. 1 Year.)
-[X] Influence: Infiltration, Black Sheep: You can't imagine the People of the Thunder Plateau are happy to be under nomad bootheel. See if you can't find some organized resistance to speak to or fund. (???%. ? Years. ???)
-[X] Relax with Family (-Stress)
Replaced Ealam with Ruma because Ealam can eventually be used for Txollan concerns
,..
[X] Plan Neutral Selling Only When Far Away
-[X] Authority: Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
--[X] Rebel Alliance
-[X] Influence: Honour of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[X] Influence: Diplomatic Contact, Ealam: Who are the Ealam and what do they want? (???%. 1 Year.)
-[X] Influence: Diplomatic Contact, Ruma: Who are the Ruma and what do they want? (???%. 1 Year.)
-[X] Relax with Family (-Stress)
(Txollan concerns are dealt with through diplomancing Ealam)
Unlike with the Khemetri, I am willing to sell to both sides of the Vynta/Ruma conflict. As soon as the Ruma market is open, we can force both sides to buy from us.
...
[X] Plan Intriguing Maximilian And Far-Away Neutral Selling
-[X] Authority: Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
--[X] Rebel Alliance
-[X] Influence: Honour of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[X] Influence: Diplomatic Contact, Ealam: Who are the Ealam and what do they want? (???%. 1 Year.)
-[X] Influence: Diplomatic Contact, Ruma: Who are the Ruma and what do they want? (???%. 1 Year.)
-[X] Influence: Infiltration, Black Sheep: You can't imagine the People of the Thunder Plateau are happy to be under nomad bootheel. See if you can't find some organized resistance to speak to or fund. (???%. ? Years. ???)
-[X] Work Overtime (+1 temp Influence, +Stress)
Do all three using overtime: Ruma, Ealam, and infiltrate.
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True. We don't have a horse in that war, so if it wraps up and one side wins then that's fine with us.
Our enemy's force is mostly calv. Pike and shot is a foot formation. It's great for pounding through armies on the open field, but it's not great at maneuver compared to a horse. Their articulated plate means they shrug off arrows, bolts, and even early bullets. Their pike means that calv attackers can't successfully charge them. Their shot means that infantry get peppered on the approach.
But to get places they walk.
Not ideal raiding units. Not ideal for feints ether. Max will have the mobility to force us to fight him if he wants to make that happen.
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Bombards is a bad speciality for a banner company. Banner companies are independent units that may be sent to handle a problem without the main army or levy to back them up and may even be sent to do mercenary work abroad. Meanwhile a siege train is made of slow moving loot and should not travel without the protection of an army we trust i.e. not a foreign employer. Plus guns need specialised and heavy resupply that can't be made in unit and which most potential employers can't provide (especially those that don't have bombards of their own and would most need the company).
Handgunners and grenadiers are less vulnerable but still have resupply problems for their special weapons.
Next banner company should be cavalry and mounted archers which is different from horse archers who we probably can't field enough of.
Handgunners and grenadiers are less vulnerable but still have resupply problems for their special weapons.
Next banner company should be cavalry and mounted archers which is different from horse archers who we probably can't field enough of.
Honestly I want our next banner company to be more pike and shot. Pike and shot can be recruited from the lower classes and is a very effective army vs a variety of threats that will transition well into the later forms of military we need when gunpowder takes over warfare.
First the crossbows are replaced with guns. Then the gunmen get bayonets. Then the pike are replaced with more guns with bayonets.
Horse units require us to recruit from the nobility. I would rather avoid that.
We can recruit light horse from steppe tribes later if we really need it, too.
We need to do a lot of getting over our "Barbarians REEEE!" impulse first. Maybe after we retake the Thunder Plateau and discover that quite a number of citizens who swear they are good upstanding Ymaryn citizens live a semi-nomadic lifestyle, but until then likely no.
Providing cavalry is what the nobility is for. That said, it's perfectly possible to train a cavalry trooper with no previous riding experience. Most 19th and 20th century British cavalry had never ridden beforehand for instance.
It's not like out officer corps isn't dominated by nobles anyway, from Daffyd on down. Forming a cavalry banner company means a bunch of nobles get to enjoy the delights of being a common trooper!
It's not like out officer corps isn't dominated by nobles anyway, from Daffyd on down. Forming a cavalry banner company means a bunch of nobles get to enjoy the delights of being a common trooper!
It would make sense if there was an option to have at least light cavalry raised from the poor or middle class with a penalty to how long the troops will take to train. You can learn to ride in a year or two.
And with that rationalization...
[] Trelli Part 2 Khemetri Boogaloo
-[] Authority: Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
--[] Rebel Alliance
-[] Influence: Intervene in Khem Civil War: KMT's civil war offers opportunities. By intervening to aid one side you gain their favor even as you make them more likely to win. (+Khem Faction Opinion, great chance of that faction winning civil war, -other khem factions opinion)
--[] Rebel Alliance
-[] Influence (x2): Intervene in Khem Civil War: KMT's civil war offers opportunities. By intervening to aid one side you gain their favor even as you make them more likely to win. (+Khem Faction Opinion, great chance of that faction winning civil war, -other khem factions opinion)
--[] Rebel Alliance
--[] And please, can we borrow your boats real quick
-[] Influence: Honour of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[] Influence: Diplomatic Contact, Ealam: Who are the Ealam and what do they want? (???%. 1 Year.)
-[] Work Overtime (+1 temp Influence, +Stress)
-[] Free : Deploy Banner Companies: Uncommitted Banner Companies may be deployed to a war zone of your choice - Deploy Iron Flowers to Khemetri for one year
--[] Deploy Dragon General alongside them
This is a bit of an insane, all-in Khemetri plan. Send two intervention missions, a Banner Company, a Dragon General, and an arms sale to Khemetri with the intention of winning the civil war (or, at least, making it clear to the Khem Navy they're going to win) in a single year. Once that's done, use our newfound friendship to request their boats for next year, just in time for the causus belli.
Advantages: Supercharges Khem alliance, anti-slavery (probably), might even make our Revaunchists happy
Disadvantages: Worried about foreign adventures? Also, extremely all-in.
@Aranfan:
[] Trelli Part 2 Khemetri Boogaloo
-[] Authority: Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
--[] Rebel Alliance
-[] Influence: Intervene in Khem Civil War: KMT's civil war offers opportunities. By intervening to aid one side you gain their favor even as you make them more likely to win. (+Khem Faction Opinion, great chance of that faction winning civil war, -other khem factions opinion)
--[] Rebel Alliance
-[] Influence (x2): Intervene in Khem Civil War: KMT's civil war offers opportunities. By intervening to aid one side you gain their favor even as you make them more likely to win. (+Khem Faction Opinion, great chance of that faction winning civil war, -other khem factions opinion)
--[] Rebel Alliance
--[] And please, can we borrow your boats real quick
-[] Influence: Honour of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[] Influence: Diplomatic Contact, Ealam: Who are the Ealam and what do they want? (???%. 1 Year.)
-[] Work Overtime (+1 temp Influence, +Stress)
-[] Free : Deploy Banner Companies: Uncommitted Banner Companies may be deployed to a war zone of your choice - Deploy Iron Flowers to Khemetri for one year
--[] Deploy Dragon General alongside them
This is a bit of an insane, all-in Khemetri plan. Send two intervention missions, a Banner Company, a Dragon General, and an arms sale to Khemetri with the intention of winning the civil war (or, at least, making it clear to the Khem Navy they're going to win) in a single year. Once that's done, use our newfound friendship to request their boats for next year, just in time for the causus belli.
Advantages: Supercharges Khem alliance, anti-slavery (probably), might even make our Revaunchists happy
Disadvantages: Worried about foreign adventures? Also, extremely all-in.
@Aranfan:
- I'm assuming the Intervene action is a single year, like our War Missions (but that the fighting might go on for longer). Is that correct?
{If it requires indefinitely-invested Influence, our action economy probably can't afford it.} - Is there any chance something like this Khemetri intervention would satisfy the Revaunchists on its own (i.e. without yet moving to retake our own provinces), through anti-slavery rhetoric (our cause is just!) and sheer prestige?
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- Location
- New Mexico, USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Plan Intriguing Maximilian And Far-Away Neutral Selling
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
The main reason your gun sales haven't seemed to influence who likes you is that the opinion gauges of a bunch of people are still hidden.
That is what guild industry represents.
That is what guild industry represents.
- Location
- Hell
It was a foolish idea then, it is a foolish idea now.
Pretty sure Trelli ended up enslaving people afterwards. We just do not have the political infrastructure to both successfully pull that off and police it.
[X] Lighting Fires for fun and profit
I don't think we can afford to care... And the technology will spread anyway, so we should get what use we can from our transitory advantage.
In any case, bombards will be superseded soon enough. By the time bombard manufacture is more competitive, I am hoping that Ymaryn guilds will have moved on to newer and better weapons like trunnioned cannon.
You must be reading a different quest than I am. We quite clearly have faced diplomatic consequences for our arms sales.
Don't assume that problems we haven't heard of are successes. More likely, it's just that the desperate situation the empire is in means we are deaf.
Since things are at fire at home, they're generally not diplomatic consequences we care about/can afford to care about however.
We need money, we get money from pushing arms sales, we need to push arms sales as much as we can. However, we shouldn't give in to wishful thinking and assume that foreign powers will like us more for selling weapons to their enemies if we have a history of selling to ALL of their enemies evenhandedly. Realistically, the sort of "neutral" policy you are championing would lead to the Ymaryn empire being seen as untrustworthy.
Also, see WoQM:
What if we instead targeted West Wall? They'd be a harder fight, we can reach them without being dependent on our sea lift capacity.
Is there any particular reason for us to not attack them next?
fasquardon
We want to try the diplomacy route with Tinshore because we actually have something to offer them (the Sacred Warding). But if it fails we need to go to war with Tinshore, hence preparing to go to war with Tinshore.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I have repeatedly acknowledge the exception to the rule that was when we sold guns to Abyss.
Which came after all of my arguments on the subject and admits that any negative consequences have been hidden from us in the updates.
If you are interesting continuing this discussion, come back when you are willing to do so in good faith.
They are the second strongest of the rebels and therefore it is easier to retake Tinshore and Greenshore first. They also don't provide any additional income compared to Tinshores or Greenshore so there isn't any incentive to go for Western Wall over the easier targets.
Furthermore, we need the warship support to attack any of the rebels whether it is Tinshore, Greenshore or Western Wall. I'll admit I thought the same as you, but it turns out that we do need the sea lift our supplies even when attacking them.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
To be fair, Western Wall is by far the strongest of any of the rebels. Unless you count the Black Sheep, but you probably shouldn't.
They are also the ones that need us the most, seeing as how they live in Middle of Nowhere, Nomadland. I'm not even sure how they are supposed to hold that patch of steppe long-term without our help and our guns.