Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)

[noliar]

[] Plan Preparing for War
-[] Authority: Honor of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[]Influence: Support Province: Give one of the provinces considerable sums of money to assist in their current infrastructural projects. (85%, 1 Year, Expensive, +Province Loyalty)
--[] Hathytta - road building in Trelli
-[] Influence: Infiltration, Styrmyr: You can't imagine the People of Greenshore are happy to be under the occupation of the Styrmyr. See if you can't find some organized resistance to speak to or fund. (???%. ? Years. ???)
-[] Influence: Infiltration, Black Sheep: You can't imagine the People of the Thunder Plateau are happy to be under nomad bootheel. See if you can't find some organized resistance to speak to or fund. (???%. ? Years. ???)
-[] Attend to a particular action personally. (Provides bonus to action)
--[] Authority: Honor of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)

Using authority and personal attention on Tinshore because I really want them back without a fight. We need to have a land base to attack Styrmyr - Greenshore may have been in rebellion but they were still Ymaryn and need avenging! Infiltration because intelligence wins fights. Infiltration Black Sheep too because it's Balthazar now and because advance warning of their next attack might let us stop it at the border.

I'd be prepared to swap the Hathytta support for something profitable though improved logistics in the west would be helpful when we go to war there in a turn or two.

I really don't want to interfere in the Khem civil war: if our side wins we're stuck playing hegemon which is an action black hole and if they lose we have the enmity of the biggest nearby power. Ideally we'd blitz Monsoon sea diplomacy and trade while they're occupied but we have revanchism.

 

[noncannon]

@Aranfan: does keeping our Banner Company stationed at Txolla satisfy their concerns? (edit: or would just the Honor of Elites + invasion satisfy their concerns, even?)

Also, what is the nature of Infiltrate, versus Establish Spy Network? Is it like noliar thinks below, and therefore easier?

@noliar Infiltration is likely to be more difficult than "Establish Spy Network", which effectively needs Authority to not be wasted. ???

 

[noliar]

@Aranfan: does keeping our Banner Company stationed at Txolla satisfy their concerns?

@noliar Infiltration is likely to be more difficult than "Establish Spy Network", which effectively needs Authority to not be wasted.

Click to shrink...

Establish spy network is for countries where we have diplomatic ties to get us long term intelligence. Infiltrate is to get people into hostile territory for military intelligence. We will be invading Styrmyr in the next half decade and they're conducting piracy against us now. The Black Sheep keep invading us. We need eyes in them.

 

[noncannon]

If Infiltration is truly expected to be not-as-difficult as the Spy Network, then using an Influence on it could be a way to both satisfy Txollan concerns and get intelligence on Maximilian that we need.

There are too many open-ended possibilities right now. I think I'll come back to this later.

We're starting a war with only 1.6 Treasury (-1 for the levy), and we need to end it with at least 2 (to further appease the Revaunchists). As mentioned in my previous analysis, it is in fact to our advantage to drag out this war if possible, as long as we end up winning. This is because a quick war does not give us enough spare actions to get our finances in order, or enough time for the guilds to add to our Treasury.

I think the main thrust should be to raise said Treasury by selling more bombards (I'm assuming the disappearing markets is a bug), along with diplomancing the Ruma and Ealam who are most likely to be profitable markets. We might eventually be forced to sell to the Vynta, though like the others here, I'm hoping not to help them steamroll.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

If Infiltration is truly expected to be not-as-difficult as the Spy Network, then using an Influence on it could be a way to both satisfy Txollan concerns and get intelligence on Maximilian that we need.

There are too many open-ended possibilities right now. I think I'll come back to this later.

We're starting a war with only 1.6 Treasury (-1 for the levy), and we need to end it with at least 2 (to further appease the Revaunchists). As mentioned in my previous analysis, it is in fact to our advantage to drag out this war if possible, as long as we end up winning. This is because a quick war does not give us enough spare actions to get our finances in order, or enough time for the guilds to add to our Treasury.

I think the main thrust should be to raise said Treasury by selling more bombards (I'm assuming the disappearing markets is a bug), along with diplomancing the Ealam who are most likely a profitable market. We might eventually be forced to sell to the Vynta, though like the others here, I'm hoping not to help them steamroll.

Click to shrink...

We should sell as many bombards as we can without picking sides in any given war.

[] Lighting Fires for fun and profit
-[] Authority : Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
- First Son's faction
-[] Influence : Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
- Second Son's facton
-[] Influence : Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
- Pagans
-[] Influence : Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
- Imperfectionists
-[] Influence : Honor of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[] Work Overtime (+1 temp Influence, +Stress)
-[] Free : Deploy Banner Companies: Uncommitted Banner Companies may be deployed to a war zone of your choice - Deploy them along the Thunder Plateu boarder to prevent raiding to satisfy Txollan King.

 

[noncannon]

If it's possible, the main disadvantage would be the future Khemetri perception of us. But the expected +3 Treasury might be necessary (or buffer up our very fragile finances, at least), depending on what other actions we might be required to invest.

 

[Oshha]

[] Plan Preparing for War

Click to shrink...

How do you plan to pay for invading Tinshore next year? Your plan would leave our Treasury at 0.6.

I really don't want to interfere in the Khem civil war: if our side wins we're stuck playing hegemon which is an action black hole and if they lose we have the enmity of the biggest nearby power.

Click to shrink...

Define interfering. Selling guns is a neutral, purely business actions which doesn't involve backing a side diplomatically unless you are blatantly are by doing something like repeatedly selling guns to a single side and no others. We can sell them some guns in a neutral action that won't leave side we didn't sell to angry, but it won't earnt the gratitude of the side we did sell to either.

 

[noliar]

If Infiltration is truly expected to be not-as-difficult as the Spy Network, then using an Influence on it could be a way to both satisfy Txollan concerns and get intelligence on Maximilian that we need.

There are too many open-ended possibilities right now. I think I'll come back to this later.

We're starting a war with only 1.6 Treasury (-1 for the levy), and we need to end it with at least 2 (to further appease the Revaunchists). As mentioned in my previous analysis, it is in fact to our advantage to drag out this war if possible, as long as we end up winning. This is because a quick war does not give us enough spare actions to get our finances in order, or enough time for the guilds to add to our Treasury.

I think the main thrust should be to raise said Treasury by selling more bombards (I'm assuming the disappearing markets is a bug), along with diplomancing the Ruma and Ealam who are most likely to be profitable markets. We might eventually be forced to sell to the Vynta, though like the others here, I'm hoping not to help them steamroll.

Click to shrink...

It's not a question of whether it's easier than spy network, it's that it addresses current concerns while spy network doesn't. Infiltrating Black Sheep is definitely Txolla relevant.

The state of the treasury point is well made. Since I'm less worries about a powerful Vynta than I am about intensifying the civil war in Khem, I'm swapping Hathytta development for selling Bombards to Vynta.

[] Plan Preparing for War
-[] Authority: Honor of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[]Influence: Sell Bombards to Vynta.
-[] Influence: Infiltration, Styrmyr: You can't imagine the People of Greenshore are happy to be under the occupation of the Styrmyr. See if you can't find some organized resistance to speak to or fund. (???%. ? Years. ???)
-[] Influence: Infiltration, Black Sheep: You can't imagine the People of the Thunder Plateau are happy to be under nomad bootheel. See if you can't find some organized resistance to speak to or fund. (???%. ? Years. ???)
-[] Attend to a particular action personally. (Provides bonus to action)
--[] Authority: Honor of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)

 

[Oshha]

We start start constructing a banner company now, we can have it year for post-Tinshore wars and we won't have to put its keep until 1610. While it costs Treasury, a single Authority action of selling guns can ensure that we have enough money for a City Levy next year. Getting a certain chance of a major boost in military power is a better choice than an uncertain chance of an intrigue action that may or may not prove effective if it even succeeds. We also got some time before we have to worry about the Black Sheep again. Max just lost again so he will need to take some time consolidating his reign to avoid coups and revolts before he can invade us again. Meanwhile I don't see Styrmyr taking a swing us over an easier target like Tinshore.

 

[OliWhail]

Ugh. We stalled again twice in a row

Click to shrink...

If it happens a third time we should start looking to see if someone is sabotaging us

 

[Kiba]

A reminder that Rhys is responsible for 1 income of our state revenue. So long our treasury is greater than 1.3 by 1605, we will be fine even if Rhys died in 1604. Not sure what will happens if Rhys died in 1605.

 

[noliar]

[x] Plan Preparing for War
-[x] Authority: Honor of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[x]Influence: Sell Bombards to Vynta.
-[x] Influence: Infiltration, Styrmyr: You can't imagine the People of Greenshore are happy to be under the occupation of the Styrmyr. See if you can't find some organized resistance to speak to or fund. (???%. ? Years. ???)
-[x] Influence: Infiltration, Black Sheep: You can't imagine the People of the Thunder Plateau are happy to be under nomad bootheel. See if you can't find some organized resistance to speak to or fund. (???%. ? Years. ???)
-[x] Attend to a particular action personally. (Provides bonus to action)
--[x] Authority: Honor of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)

2 hours has passed.

We have other ways to increase our fighting strength than a banner company, we don't have other ways to gain intelligence.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

[] Lighting Fires for fun and profit
-[] Authority : Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)- First Son's faction
-[] Influence : Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)- Second Son's facton
-[] Influence : Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)- Pagans
-[] Influence : Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)- Imperfectionists
-[] Influence : Honor of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[] Work Overtime (+1 temp Influence, +Stress)
-[] Free : Deploy Banner Companies: Uncommitted Banner Companies may be deployed to a war zone of your choice - Deploy them along the Thunder Plateu boarder to prevent raiding to satisfy Txollan King.

 

[Oshha]

[X] Plan Oshha
-[X] Authority: Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
--[X] Rebel Alliance
-[X] Influence: Honour of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[X] Influence: Diplomatic Contact, Ealam: Who are the Ealam and what do they want? (???%. 1 Year.)
-[X] Influence: Found Banner Company: The storied mercenary companies of the Melkut Ymaryn were ancient institutions, that played important roles in both martial and diplomatic matters. Having a banner company at your beck and call, able to be loaned out to allies or against enemies, it is a powerful tool. An expensive one though. (100%. 3 Years. Expensive, -.5 Income, potentially profitable, may be taken more than once)
-[X] Relax with Family (-Stress)

Okay. Since the Khem royalists have fallen into infighting while the two rebel factions have allied, I want to sell them guns with Authority. I don't want to sell guns to Vynta since I want their war to drag out some more and I don't want to give Vynta the edge needed to win and become King of the Hill if we can help it. I also want to leave selling guns to Vynta as an option for money next turn since I doubt the war will be over in a single year and maybe we'll get lucky and they'll come to us for guns.

One Influence on Honour of the Elites to appease the revanchists even if I would rather wait a turn while another Influence goes to hopefully getting us some more income at Ruma's expense though I am open to using opening up a new market instead. Finally, I want to get started on a second Banner Company since it will prove useful in the future against both Western Wall and the Black Sheep and doing it now means we get a few years of free use before we start to pay income for it. I'm also hoping that it will appease Txollan King due to how it will be useful against the Black Sheep once it is ready, but if it doesn't, I will swap it out for an action that does deal with Txollan King.

Edit: I have swapped annoying Ruma for income in favour of diploing the Ealam because they like us more than another other uncontacted power and we can potentially sell guns to them in the future.

This should leave us with 1 Authority and 2-3 Influence next turn depending on how things go alongside enough Treasury to pay for a City Levy and the option to get more money next turn with an Authority on selling bombards to Vynta. The Iron Flowers are being kept in reserve for the Tinshore campaign next year.

We have other ways to increase our fighting strength than a banner company, we don't have other ways to gain intelligence.

Click to shrink...

Fighting strength is more valuable than intelligence, especially since it takes more time to build that fighting strength than it does to acquire intelligence. You are also being way too optimistic about peacefully bringing Tinshore in. An Authority is being wasted on Tinshore when an Influence will do the job just as well. The Authority should be used on something that actually benefits from it, such an option that isn't guaranteed to succeed on our end.

 

[Joppe]

[x] Plan Preparing for War

 

[sunrise]

[X] Plan Oshha

 

[Kiba]

[X] Plan Oshha
-[X] Authority: Sell Bombards, Khem: The Khemetri seem to really like buying bombards from you. See if they want some more. (70%. 1 year. Profitable)
--[X] Rebel Alliance
-[X] Influence: Honour of Elites, Tinshore: Demand the rebels surrender and swear fealty once again to their rightful lord! (Narrative%. 1 year, +Influence, Casus Belli if failed)
-[X] Influence: Negotiate Trade Deal: In the cutthroat world of commerce it is said that for one to benefit another must lose. Even so, it might be worthwhile to formalize trade deals with various powers. (85%. 1 Year. +.1 Income and -1 Opinion if Prestige > Target or -.1 Income and +1 Opinion if Prestige < Target, may be taken multiple times with different targets, possible opinion effects on third parties)
--[X] Ruma
-[X] Influence: Found Banner Company: The storied mercenary companies of the Melkut Ymaryn were ancient institutions, that played important roles in both martial and diplomatic matters. Having a banner company at your beck and call, able to be loaned out to allies or against enemies, it is a powerful tool. An expensive one though. (100%. 3 Years. Expensive, -.5 Income, potentially profitable, may be taken more than once)
-[X] Relax with Family (-Stress)

Click to shrink...

Selling the Kehm re bells give us one treasury. Then we commit an influence to Tinshore, and another influence in making Ruma dislikes us(and potentially making Vynta dislikes us) in exchange for 0.1 in income. We then spend a treasury on yet another banner company.

Our income in the immediate future will go from -0.3 to -0.2, while our treasury level remains the same after acquiring and spending a treasury. If we regained Tinshore soon, we will be able to pay the new banner company unless we go heavy cavalry, but that just mean we need to conquer Greenshore.

[X] Plan Oshha

 

[noncannon]

[] Delay the vote
-[] Too many open questions that can change the optimality of multiple plans
-[] This is just a placeholder to prevent bandwagoning based on incomplete information. Change your vote once we have said information.

(e.g. whether or not the missing Gunpowder markets are a bug, whether just deploying the Banner company satisfies Txollan concerns, the perhaps strange implications of Fouredged Sword's plan)

 

[Oshha]

Selling the Kehm re bells give us one treasury. Then we commit an influence to Tinshore, and another influence in making Ruma dislikes us(and potentially making Vynta dislikes us) in exchange for 0.1 in income. We then spend a treasury on yet another banner company.

Our income in the immediate future will go from -0.3 to -0.2, while our treasury level remains the same after acquiring and spending a treasury. If we regained Tinshore soon, we will be able to pay the new banner company unless we go heavy cavalry, but that just mean we need to conquer Greenshore.

Click to shrink...

Ruma and Vynta are currently at war. I don't think giving the former some unfair trade deals is going to make the latter like us less. The Banner Company won't need its upkeep pay for until 1610. That gives us six years to find a way to offset its upkeep from conquering another province to finding some other way.

Banner Companies are also like warships. You have to start getting one before you need them because you don't have the time start making one when you do need one.

That said, I am open to swapping out the Ruma action to something else given how little income it gives us, but nobody has made any suggestions yet and I am curious to see what the action does.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

If at all posible I would love for our next banner company to have a vote option that says

"A man from the bombard casting guild has come to the court with a proposition. This Mr Orban believes his guild can supply a banner company with the finest of the wares his guild has built - Specialize the banner company in artillery"

Ruma and Vynta are currently at war. I don't think giving the former some unfair trade deals is going to make the latter like us less. The Banner Company won't need its upkeep pay for until 1610. That gives us six years to find a way to offset its upkeep from conquering another province to finding some other way.

Banner Companies are also like warships. You have to start getting one before you need them because you don't have the time start making one when you do need one.

That said, I am open to swapping out the Ruma action to something else given how little income it gives us, but nobody has made any suggestions yet and I am curious to see what the action does.

Click to shrink...

And with the Revanchists riled up losing prestige may not be a wise idea right at this moment. Save it for after they are pacified by reconquest to spend prestige on economy.

 

[Oshha]

And with the Revanchists riled up losing prestige may not be a wise idea right at this moment. Save it for after they are pacified by reconquest to spend prestige on economy.

Click to shrink...

That action doesn't change prestige, its outcome is just influenced by how much we have versus how much the target has.

 

[Kiba]

That said, I am open to swapping out the Ruma action to something else given how little income it gives us, but nobody has made any suggestions yet and I am curious to see what the action does.

Click to shrink...

We sell to Kus/Saffyron minors. I am pretty sure Aranfan left it out unintentionally again. Also, we also can't for some reason sell to Pomp or Kurna or Abyss, even if it was just probable income.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

That action doesn't change prestige, its outcome is just influenced by how much we have versus how much the target has.

Click to shrink...

Huh, I read that wrong. My bad. For some reason I thought it was trading prestige for income not opinion for income.

I still don't think it's worth the influence at this time when selling bombards is still on the table. Selling one unit of bombards is only overtaken by trade deals after 50 turns. In 50 turns the game is going to be radically different. We don't need long term investment. We need short turn bang for our action buck.

 

[sunrise]

we have been selling bombards for a while now locals might have started to copy them.

 

[Fouredged Sword]

we have been selling bombards for a while now locals might have started to copy them.

Click to shrink...

We are selling them because our ironworks and bronzeworks can outproduce pretty much the rest of the world combined. We can underbid local production. This isn't a tech advantage for us. This is an infrastructural and natural resource advantage that we exploit for all it's worth.

The more we sell bombards the higher our production the more we undercut local production.