- Pronouns
- he
[X] Plan Oshha
Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)
Do you not use different skill levels for leaders?
@Oshha, everyone in general
Treasury-wise, a large concern is what happens not during, but rather the year immediately after the first set of wars. This is referring to the turn immediately after we've reclaimed as many Provinces as possible (likely Tinshore+Greenshore, and Western Wall might be part of that list as well) but are low on Treasury and need to take a breather. Three options that turn:
Ironically, a quick war victory would actually be more troublesome for us, because a long city levy is the cheapest way to satisfy our Revaunchists. A City Levy only costs 1 Treasury up until victory/defeat, however many years. Once the war is over, on the other hand, we need to either spend 1 Treasury within a year for the next war (Honor of Elites, followed by City Levy), or spend 2 Treasury immediately to build up military. If we have a series of quick victories, then we need to spend more treasury in sequence that much more quickly, while having less time available to make that money!
A long war would also give the Guild more time to add to our Treasury, whereas two short wars could theoretically take place before the Guild even has a single chance to do so.
Tinshore is looking more and more likely to be a short(ish?) war. We don't really know about the others.
Is there an option to artificially prolong a war?
Treasury-wise, a large concern is what happens not during, but rather the year immediately after the first set of wars. This is referring to the turn immediately after we've reclaimed as many Provinces as possible (likely Tinshore+Greenshore, and Western Wall might be part of that list as well) but are low on Treasury and need to take a breather. Three options that turn:
- [Not Happening] We've steamrolled all four provinces in a row (including the Black Sheep) and are done.
- We need enough Treasury for military build-ups to satisfy the revaunchists, which (as I understand it) requires in practice having 2 Treasury left over (not counting other bankruptcy buffer, assumed to be 1 Treasury). So, we need 3 Treasury left over after the war.
- We don't have enough Treasury to satisfy the revaunchists and start losing 1 Influence / Turn. Depending on how much Influence a war victory gives us, this could be a worthwhile tradeoff; but I kind of suspect it is 1 Influence/war. If we reclaim three provinces, but then lose the three Influence while we're diplomancing up new markets, then that leaves us back where we started.
Ironically, a quick war victory would actually be more troublesome for us, because a long city levy is the cheapest way to satisfy our Revaunchists. A City Levy only costs 1 Treasury up until victory/defeat, however many years. Once the war is over, on the other hand, we need to either spend 1 Treasury within a year for the next war (Honor of Elites, followed by City Levy), or spend 2 Treasury immediately to build up military. If we have a series of quick victories, then we need to spend more treasury in sequence that much more quickly, while having less time available to make that money!
A long war would also give the Guild more time to add to our Treasury, whereas two short wars could theoretically take place before the Guild even has a single chance to do so.
Tinshore is looking more and more likely to be a short(ish?) war. We don't really know about the others.
Is there an option to artificially prolong a war?
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Once we take the Blacksheep revaunchists should go away as well. Their whole thing is retaking the homeland. Once the homeland is taken then there isn't much of a motivation holding them together.
Not really there's still Western Wall, Greenshore who has beem occupied by the ever growing barbarian cousins the Styrmyr, and Tinshore. Having the Thunder Plateau is only one step to fully end revaunchism though.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Is there an option to artificially prolong a war?
Send enough forces to not lose, but not enough to win except we don't know how much of that is what and we would lose Influence from not losing/not winning. The only real way is to put a diplo action to try and resolve our demands via words before resorting to force, which gives us another couple of years.
I'm not actually worried about retaking the rebel territories being short wars. They are a bit too powerful for that.
In regards to our treasury situation, we just got to get by until 1605 when things become much easier with the Guild Industry recovered as we will then be getting a free +1 Treasury every two turn. Since the revanchists should be dealt with until our warships finish constructing before we make our Tinshore demand, which means we won't have to go war with one of the rebels until 1605 or 1606. Between now and then, we got three or four years to improve our treasury to both pay for the City Levy and our losses from income. Once it is 1605, we got the Guild Industry to cover our war funding efforts.
I'm happy to start looking into new markets and actually want to, but I want to save until next turn and try to go do Ealam and the remaining Saffron Sea powers before branching out into the north.
No, we need to retake all of the provinces and then Aranfan will roll to see if we need to reclaim King of the Hill before the revanchism goes away.
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The problem is that the Black Sheep are the hardest to recapture, and we're unlikely to do so in the next set of wars. They're the ones we likely need to use the Mass Levy (1 Treasury / Turn) against, and we just don't have enough Treasury reserves for that.
So our next war plan needs to figure out how to gear down successfully so we can build more banner companies/gain more Treasury for the final push against the Black Sheep.
(Or, better yet, absorb the Western Wall value that allows expansionism over perfectionism, and lets us forget about the Black Sheep. If we get the chance to do this, then I swear to Crow, do it!)
Yeah, but the current plans see us taking Blacksheep last. Retaking Tinshore, Western Wall, and such comes first.
Retaking KoTH is going to be a pain if that happens.
Retaking KoTH is going to be a pain if that happens.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Once we get the Guild Industry running again, the Mass Levy becomes quite affordable as the Guild Industry will pay for half of it. That said, we will need to build up some money reserves before then. Beyond that, we can spend Influence on profitable actions even if they are only probably profitable and hopefully retake a province or two to improve our income. If it proves to be feasible, I am going to consider founding a second Banner Company next turn so we can get it just after the 1605 income change. Plus with the Guild Industry back in 1605, we should have a decade to stockpile a few funds from it before we begin the liberation of Thunder Plateau.
There is also this option for money it pays way less but its permanent income:
Negotiate Trade Deal: In the cuthroat world of commerce it is said that for one to benefit another must lose. Even so, it might be worthwhile to formalize trade deals with various powers. (85%. 1 Year. +.1 Income and -1 Opinion if Prestige > Target or -.1 Income and +1 Opinion if Prestige < Target, may be taken multiple times with different targets, possible opinion effects on third parties)
-Write in target
Negotiate Trade Deal: In the cuthroat world of commerce it is said that for one to benefit another must lose. Even so, it might be worthwhile to formalize trade deals with various powers. (85%. 1 Year. +.1 Income and -1 Opinion if Prestige > Target or -.1 Income and +1 Opinion if Prestige < Target, may be taken multiple times with different targets, possible opinion effects on third parties)
-Write in target
Okay, the first crusade in 1605-6, which gives us 2-3 turns worth of actions prior to the actual start (not counting 1602 as it's basically done).
I imagine all our free actions until then (and even after the war start) will be geared toward developing new markets, and buying from the Probably Profitable for expected 0.625 Treasury. Would like to fit medical sharing in there, but not sure if we can with 4 actions.
I previously estimated 3-4 Treasury from the current known markets. If we can get a few more markets open with our free actions, I think that should give us enough to war and then gear down afterwards; the gearing down will require immediate 2 Treasury for2x Found Banner Company, repeated every three years. ??? (Note that none of this counts the costs of possible defeat.)
I don't know about your plan to form another Banner Company next turn. I'm thinking to found one the turn after Maximilian retreats; that way Txollan concerns continue to be satisfied. I'm really, really hoping we don't have to constantly form banner companies during the war; that would be 1 Treasury per 3 Years, effectively reducing our Guild Income to 1 Treasury per 6 years, and making the Treasury buffer more fragile in the process. (But, on the bright side, we might lend them out for ??? income.)
To be sure, this is every two turns.
I imagine all our free actions until then (and even after the war start) will be geared toward developing new markets, and buying from the Probably Profitable for expected 0.625 Treasury. Would like to fit medical sharing in there, but not sure if we can with 4 actions.
I previously estimated 3-4 Treasury from the current known markets. If we can get a few more markets open with our free actions, I think that should give us enough to war and then gear down afterwards; the gearing down will require immediate 2 Treasury for
I don't know about your plan to form another Banner Company next turn. I'm thinking to found one the turn after Maximilian retreats; that way Txollan concerns continue to be satisfied. I'm really, really hoping we don't have to constantly form banner companies during the war; that would be 1 Treasury per 3 Years, effectively reducing our Guild Income to 1 Treasury per 6 years, and making the Treasury buffer more fragile in the process. (But, on the bright side, we might lend them out for ??? income.)
To be sure, this is every two turns.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We could to that with Pamplona, Ruma, Kurna and Ealam for extra income, but everyone else has too high prestige for us to get income from that action.
Yeah, it is. I forgot to put a word in that.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
One of those actions would be the diplo demand we make the year before going to war. But yes, we got some time and actions to our treasury up. I'm actually interested in trying to exhort some extra income from Ruma next turn, maybe with an Authority to ensure success.
I'm thinking we only get one more Banner Company for now. More than that will depend on our economy situation as we approach 1610. We don't need a whole bunch of Banner Companies and I am only considering getting one next turn if it is both affordable and because the timing means that we get five years usage out of it before paying its upkeep. I'm not sure why you think we should build multiple Banner Companies since our income can't handle the upkeep cost and I don't think we can found more than a single Banner Company at a time since we can't take an action multiple times at once.
Ultimately, I just want to get a second Banner Company ready for when we start to retake the rebel territories. If we can throw two Banner Companies and a War Mission at Tinshore or Greenshore, we might not even need to pay for a City Levy to retake those lands.
I didn't realize there was an upkeep cost for Banner Companies (which turns out to be 0.5 income). I guess the big question is how often do people want to hire them.
I was using Banner Companies as a way to build up our military to appease the Revaunchists. Is there another way to do so, since presumably more warships wouldn't be useful against the Black Sheep? (I guess they'd be useful for post-reunification actions.)
Edit: add Txollan concerns to that question also, since Banner Companies were one of the few ways of satisfying them.
I would say this sounds like a good cost-savings, but I was under the impression pike + crossbow were mainly anti-cavalry. Am I mistaken, and/or they still useful for Tinshore and Greenshore?
I was using Banner Companies as a way to build up our military to appease the Revaunchists. Is there another way to do so, since presumably more warships wouldn't be useful against the Black Sheep? (I guess they'd be useful for post-reunification actions.)
Edit: add Txollan concerns to that question also, since Banner Companies were one of the few ways of satisfying them.
I would say this sounds like a good cost-savings, but I was under the impression pike + crossbow were mainly anti-cavalry. Am I mistaken, and/or they still useful for Tinshore and Greenshore?
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Rent g out a banner company will pay the upkeep of 2. They don't make much money, but can be used to pay for each other, with half our banner companies rented out at any given time.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
If anything we should actively refuse to be recognized as King of the Hill - remain aggressively aware of our own shortcomings and constantly try to improve, so that we instead become King of the Humble
Pike & shot squares are effective against all enemies as long as their sides stay clear from enemies.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
A military preparation action (like building warships or founding a Banner Company) give us a dice roll that is weighted in our favour while actions which gain us prestige (like Against Cholera or helping Pamplona's admin reforms) gives us a dice roll that isn't weighted in our favour.
Doing stuff that directly helps retake our lands like making diplomatic demands or invading them just outright appeases the revanchists.
Pike and shot is just generally good from what I recall, but I'm not an expert on military tactics in this era. I vaguely remember them being good from when we made the original
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Until you get arquebuses, Pike & Shot is merely always strong and relevant, rather than absurdly dominant.
I'll leave the exact composition for the military enthusiasts, then; good to know that Banner Companies work in non-steppe environs.
If--and only if--there is enough rent demand to cover our upkeep, I'm okay with building up more and more banner companies.
In asking what the options are, I'm referring mainly to the last stretch, when we're gearing up to liberate the Black Sheep, for possibly for a decade or more. The awkward thing, there, is that the only helpful military buildup action seems to be founding more Banner Companies.
If--and only if--there is enough rent demand to cover our upkeep, I'm okay with building up more and more banner companies.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The liberation of Thunder Plateau is far enough in the distance that I'm not going to consider planning specific actions like founding a Banner Company until we are closer to that point and we have a clearer picture of what needs doing. As for preparation, I'm going to build up the funds whilst retaking the rest of the Old Empire that we can afford to go straight into the campaign so we can make our diplo demand to Black Sheep once we have retaken Western Wall.
The thing about Pike and Shot is actually that it's actually really resistant to being outmaneuvered. The whole point is your army is broken into blocks of pike and shot. It's modular tactics. Flanking the formation just sees the square of pike turn 90 degrees and face you. Encircling the formation just causes the shot to retreat into a square ring of pike and shoot out of it from safety.
The whole thing relies on the formation knowing what it's doing though. If they do though, they bypass the biggest issue of large armies in this Era - slow communication. The pike and shot formation has an answer to any threat and can just do their thing without micromanagement.
- Location
- United States
Unfortunately we are elitist assholes and likely will be for the foreseeable future, so King of the Humble isn't quite an option for us.If anything we should actively refuse to be recognized as King of the Hill - remain aggressively aware of our own shortcomings and constantly try to improve, so that we instead become King of the Humble