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Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)

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noncannon said:
Alright, I'll assume this is the case.
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It is the case. Just look at the actions in question:
Aranfan said:
City Levy, Tinshore: Conscript some of the excess population of the cities and send them to crush the rebells in Tinshore. (90% 1 year. Success and length of campaign rolled separately. Possible influence gains or losses depending on result. Expensive)
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Aranfan said:
Activate The Mass Levy!: Arm and mobilize 3 million soldiers. The earth quakes at your approach. None can stand against the might of The People. (85%. 1 year. Success and length of campaign rolled separately. Possible influence gains or losses depending on result. Unsustainably expensive)
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One is Expensive while the other is Unsustainably Expensive.

noncannon said:
I can't remember if Western Wall requires a mass levy or not, which would drain the rest.
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It does not though using one would likely be too much for them to withstand.
noncannon said:
I'll have to think more on this. I'm sort of seeing why Oshha wants to invade Tinshore (and maybe Greenshore), easy targets, for action economy. As long as we can able to pause to recover our Treasury, without setting off the Revanchists (so we'll need a buffer for rebuilding), it's a good idea.
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It is a balancing act. We have to balance handling our finances, our military strength and our available actions to keep all three at acceptable levels without letting one drop to much whilst also avoiding setting off the revanchists.
 
noncannon said:
Is there any reason Berbar wouldn't want us to pass through (aside from our not knowing them/selling to them, which we should remedy)? If we sell to the North Saffrons, presumably it might put pressure on their rivals the Pamplona.
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Selling to Berbar means the Khem will start to dip below neutral, and we're building a budding relationship with the Pomp by sending them bureaucrats. The Khem we want to keep friendly with, moreso than far away Berbar. Otherwise, we risk war with the Khem. Pomp dislikes Berbar.

So there's no incentive for us to butter up Berbar.
 
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Oshha said:
I would prefer to use this map for more originality and keeping to the original feel of PoC & PoI.
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As far as geography goes, I replaced the Caspian with a much smaller set of lakes, which will hopefully allow it to be steppe similar to the land around it without drying up immensely, same with the Aral.

The Salt Sea looks to be in the location of modern-day Lake Balkhash and Aral, across a diminished or nonexistent Altai Range, and into the Gobi and Taklaman. I will likely not keep the hot-dog shape of the original Salt Sea, because it doesn't make any sense.
Shard of Victory said:
Whatever the fuck happened to Crimea and straits just hurts to see.
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I honestly was just trying to go from the original map, but it is kinda strange.

EDIT: Second draft, this time with a more geographically-accurate Salt Sea, flowing from just east of the IRL Aral, through the Dzungarian Gate, into the Junggan basin. Also added Amber Road.

 
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I am in the "hate it" camp.

But that is probably due to having gotten used to the more detailed otl maps.

I shall probably put it up to a vote.

Edit: I had not seen the second draft.
 
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In my know-absolutely-nothing opinion, the edited Salt Sea looks better!

Kiba said:
Selling to Berbar means the Khem will start to dip below neutral, and we're building a budding relationship with the Pomp. The Khem we want to keep friendly with, moreso than far away Berbar. Otherwise, we risk war with the Khem. Pomp dislikes Berbar and we're sending bureaucrats to solidify our relationship with the Pomp.

So there's no incentive for us to butter up Berbar.
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If there's lots of North Saffrons to sell to (and if we need their blessing to pass the strait), then that's incentive.

We can make it up to Khem through health initiatives (or even, cough, by supporting a civil war faction).

It does depend on how all-in we're going on the "sell to everyone" policy we've started/explored with Abyss, rather than selling only to allies/neutrals. Also, on our estimates of how much the sales are needed. For sure, it would further alienate Khem and diverge the timeline.

...

As a chance-thought, maybe, maybe we can get land passage through Pamplona to sell to the North Saffrons. But yeah, making good with the Berbar is still the best chance.
 
noncannon said:
In my know-absolutely-nothing opinion, the edited Salt Sea looks better!

If there's lots of North Saffrons to sell to (and if we need their blessing to pass the strait), then that's incentive.
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It's about the opportunity cost. The way I see it is that there's likely to be less opportunities to sell guns in Northern Syffron, and less secure trade route(because of Berbar). I am much more interested in the Monsoon Sea, because we can easily sail further south or further East without having to deal with gatekeepers that two of our trading partners hate.

noncannon said:
We can make it up to Khem through health initiatives (or even, cough, by supporting a civil war faction).

It does depend on how all-in we're going on the "sell to everyone" policy we've started/explored with Abyss, rather than selling only to allies/neutrals. Also, on our estimates of how much the sales are needed. For sure, it would further alienate Khem and diverge the timeline.

...

As a chance-thought, maybe, maybe we can get land passage through Pamplona to sell to the North Saffrons. But yeah, making good with the Berbar is still the best chance.
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If we want friendship with the Khem, we need to stop making it difficult for ourselves to make them friends, and not pretending that we can always butter them up.

Also, sell our guns through the Pomp is an inferior alternative, because we selling it through a middleman, and that land transport are shit.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
New king needs to put the hours in. This one isn't a hero so if he dies a little early he dies a little early.
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@Aranfan Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there consequences from just overworking our kings to death for the extra temporary Influence each turn? I'm pretty sure there is to make us avoid doing it, but I might be misremembering things.
 
Oshha said:
@Aranfan Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there consequences from just overworking our kings to death for the extra temporary Influence each turn? I'm pretty sure there is to make us avoid doing it, but I might be misremembering things.
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+Stress

You lose them faster. Which means more possibility of succession crisis.

There is also... narrative concerns with subjecting kings to karoshi.
 
Big problems with this map, is that it's based on original PoC world map, and original map is horrible abomination, drawn without regard to tectonics, realism, and topography. It's many, many faults come from being drawn by someone in Paint, with obvious smooth lines everywhere, and not that great knowlege of geography.
 
Shard of Victory said:
Big problems with this map, is that it's based on original PoC world map, and original map is horrible abomination, drawn without regard to tectonics, realism, and topography. It's many, many faults come from being drawn by someone in Paint, with obvious smooth lines everywhere, and not that great knowlege of geography.
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Except none of that actually matters to this quest? We literally had someone see the future threw crows and had an actual colony drop on a neighboring polity. Realism is something that was given nods to, but ignored when inconvenient. Getting mad because the original QM was not a professional cartographer/geologist/seismologist is just petty.
 
Shard of Victory said:
Big problems with this map, is that it's based on original PoC world map, and original map is horrible abomination, drawn without regard to tectonics, realism, and topography. It's many, many faults come from being drawn by someone in Paint, with obvious smooth lines everywhere, and not that great knowlege of geography.
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The map just need to be a useful representation for the purpose of the quest. It doesn't have to be 100% accurate or drawn exactly correct. The original QM is not a perfect cartographer, nor a drawing machine.

Are real world maps 100% accurate? No.

Are we going to war game exactly how we will cross into not!Iran? No.

Are characters going to use our map and conclude plate tectonic doesn't exists? No. They will make their own more increasingly accurate map, and they will figure out that plate tectonic exists because the continents fit like jigsaw puzzles.

I am glad that someone is trying to make a more geographically realistic/usuable map, though. That's cool.
 
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It is entirely understandable and forgivable that the maps for PoC and PoI suck. Academia Nut is a master wordsmith, not a master cartographer. So good at words I have been compelled to do quests set in that universe.

The maps, however, remain bad.
 
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