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We Are the Gods of a New World Order [Warhammer 50K ~ Warp God Simulator]

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Derpmind said:
Well you're all being a bunch of judgemental sourpusses. Just for that nonsense, I'm voting [] Omegahugger next turn no matter what. (No one's ever mocked me for analyzing success chances in other quests.)
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Please only do that if I vote for something you actually support.

It's not like I haven't also made some rather spectacular miscalculations in this Quest alone. I was the guy claiming we have no way to significantly harm the Flayers minutes before we killed all of them.
 
Omegahugger said:
Oh trust me, that phenomenon is way older than Divided Loyalties... Over a hundred years of being denied my beautiful Monsters...
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...I was a supporter of those plans, that is a pain long remembered.

Think my old hat was creating sudden bandwagon whenever I took a suboptimal option because I liked it and was comfortable it wouldn't win.
 
So on the topic of trying diplomacy with the space marines, are we actually going to try flipping them? It seems like something essentially impossible to do, and a huge landmine if we do manage anything.

A space marine dying in battle is bad, but having any defect to a hostile power is instantly jump us up the "to exterminatus" list. Especially since from the Imperium's perspective they'd be the first new chaos marines in 10,000 years. That's going to stomp all over some sensitive buttons in the Imperial military structure in general and their home chapter in particular.

We can probably survive killing some space marines, but flipping them could very well get the chapter master to show up with a fleet of his closest friends to correct the issue. It'd be a huge loss of prestige and standing in the Imperium even if the defection didn't personally piss them off, and this is the kind of thing that could give a black templar a rage induced heart attack.
 
BronzeTongue said:
So on the topic of trying diplomacy with the space marines, are we actually going to try flipping them? It seems like something essentially impossible to do, and a huge landmine if we do manage anything.

A space marine dying in battle is bad, but having any defect to a hostile power is instantly jump us up the "to exterminatus" list. Especially since from the Imperium's perspective they'd be the first new chaos marines in 10,000 years. That's going to stomp all over some sensitive buttons in the Imperial military structure in general and their home chapter in particular.

We can probably survive killing some space marines, but flipping them could very well get the chapter master to show up with a fleet of his closest friends to correct the issue. It'd be a huge loss of prestige and standing in the Imperium even if the defection didn't personally piss them off, and this is the kind of thing that could give a black templar a rage induced heart attack.
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The astartes are called out in the opening posts as partially wanting to rebel from the Imperial Apparatus, but being unable to, because of peer pressure and loss of resources.

We will soon have a group of astartes isolated from the main fleet and exposed to our divinely sourced resources. There's no better time to try. And think- if we can flip the single company sent to us, that's a shield of anonymity for us- they report back "everything's handled, nothing to report" and nobody looks back at equinox until a publicani gets shot out of the sky in 50 years

On another note, I highly doubt that we are getting the best of the astartes- no doubt this company/chapter is out of favor in some fashion, being sent to a "Nowhere world" like equinox
 
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DocMatoi said:
The astartes are called out in the opening posts as partially wanting to rebel from the Imperial Apparatus, but being unable to, because of peer pressure and loss of resources.
We will soon have a group of astartes isolated from the main fleet and exposed to our divinely sourced resources.
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Which means if we play our cards right, we could gain support from the chapter.....
Of course, since we could trigger flashbacks to the original chaos gods, we could also get them to rally under the imperium regardless of their misgivings......
 
BronzeTongue said:
So on the topic of trying diplomacy with the space marines, are we actually going to try flipping them? It seems like something essentially impossible to do, and a huge landmine if we do manage anything.

A space marine dying in battle is bad, but having any defect to a hostile power is instantly jump us up the "to exterminatus" list. Especially since from the Imperium's perspective they'd be the first new chaos marines in 10,000 years. That's going to stomp all over some sensitive buttons in the Imperial military structure in general and their home chapter in particular.

We can probably survive killing some space marines, but flipping them could very well get the chapter master to show up with a fleet of his closest friends to correct the issue. It'd be a huge loss of prestige and standing in the Imperium even if the defection didn't personally piss them off, and this is the kind of thing that could give a black templar a rage induced heart attack.
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I mean, we already in all sorts of lists. But flipping them would be almost impossible, so I'm against that.
 
DocMatoi said:
The astartes are called out in the opening posts as partially wanting to rebel from the Imperial Apparatus, but being unable to, because of peer pressure and loss of resources.
We will soon have a group of astartes isolated from the main fleet and exposed to our divinely sourced resources.
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The thing is we aren't dealing with these marines in isolation; they're part of a larger chapter and web of related chapters that care about what they do. If we flip some of the marines then the minute the Imperium hears about it it's going to trigger institutional grade ptsd from their military and have immediate repercussions for anyone associated with them.

The chapter master is going to be faced with questions like "why are your guys the first proper chaos marines in 10,000 years?" and suspicions from the other agencies of the Imperium as a whole. It will only get worse for him if he doesn't take action against us so even if we did, by some miracle, get connected with a sympathetic chapter they'd need to purge us to avoid significant problems.

Unless we kill, capture, or otherwise isolate the entire hostile portion of the group from the Imperium this is going to be a problem. I find that sort of unlikely considering we're clearly fighting at a serious disadvantage and on the defense. Unless they make a serious mistake they should be able to disengage anytime they like, and get at least a few survivors or a message out if things go really bad.
Edit: grammar
 
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It all depends on what this company/chapter is like and what their situation is. If they're descended from the Salamanders or maybe the lamenters, we're in luck- our benign and protective nature may appeal to them.
The marines malevolent, less so.

BronzeTongue said:
If we flip some of the marines then the minute the Imperium hears about it
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So we don't let them hear about it. What, you expect them to trumpet this stuff from the rooftops? We're not gonna have them go around with pamphlets titled "Plant Cults And You," all they have to do is corroborate our story of "hey it's all taken care of, fuck this planet is boring, nothing happening over here"
 
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We can't really interract with them, so no idea how we would corrupt them. Like in 40k marines need lots of time to fall, or massive memetic influence right in the face. When they will arrive they will start to kill our dudes, and I, personally, value lifes of our followers more than hypotetical chance to flip one or two marines.
 
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DocMatoi said:
So we don't let them hear about it. What, you expect them to trumpet this stuff from the rooftops? We're not gonna have them go around with pamphlets titled "Plant Cults And You," all they have to do is corroborate our story of "hey it's all taken care of, fuck this planet is boring, nothing happening over here"
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You know how eye-catching AND high-profile they are? At minimum they would know that the astartes went to this planet with a chaos sighting and just.... Dissappeared......
Which is likely alone enough for major action, and people might guess what happened even before they get reports of a group that 'strangely' looks like astartes.
Conversion is an old hat for chaos, and the imperium (and every important expert on the warp, or veteran against chaos )knows it.
 
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Shard of Victory said:
We can't really interract with them, so no idea how we would corrupt them. Like in 40k marines need lots of time to fall, or massive memetic influence right in the face. When they will arrive they will start to kill our dudes, and I, personally, value lifes of our followers more than hipotetical chance to flip one or two marines.
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If we are given the option to open with diplomacy - which we might well have if we take the Spire and seize the inhabited parts of the planet - then I think we should try.

We simply need to plan for diplomacy to fail, which we've been doing this entire time - nobody IC believes it to even be an option at this point.
 
Themarineguy said:
You know how eye-catching AND high-profile they are. At minimum they would know that the astartes went to this planet with a chaos sighting and just.... Dissappeared......
Which is likely alone enough for major action, and people might guess what happened even before they get reports of a group that 'strangely' looks like astartes.
Conversion is an old hat for chaos, and the imperium (and every important expert on the warp, or veteran against chaos )knows it.
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So we just send em back to Terra. They don't gotta stay here, they just need to not kill us. I'm not looking to create Chaos Marines, I'm looking to create the Look The Other Way Marines
 
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Raising Kittens said:
If we are given the option to open with diplomacy - which we might well have if we take the Spire and seize the inhabited parts of the planet - then I think we should try.

We simply need to plan for diplomacy to fail, which we've been doing this entire time - nobody IC believes it to even be an option at this point.
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But way to many people OOC belive that we can flip them. Don't do diplomacy with Chaos, it's like Warhammer 101. Each of them is hardened, indocrinated fanatic. Changing minds of fanatics is really fucking hard! If we had them imprisoned and several turns, we could probably do it, but even original Four coudn't corrupt space marine by vox.
 
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One big reason I doubt we'll be able to flip these marines, outside of the short timeframe and lack of contact and general difficulty of corrupting space marines, is that these aren't just any random marines. These are marines who are being trusted to respond to a chaos-triggered 'Forlorn Contingency', and if the Imperium has even the smallest modicum of sense (which, granted, isn't guaranteed) they wouldn't trust that task to anything but the most loyal of the loyal.
 
Shard of Victory said:
Each of them is hardened, indocrinated fanatic
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the question then becomes, what are they a fanatic of? Are they a fanatic of the Emperor's Boot upon the back of the Imperial citizen? Are they a fanatic of the Imperium as a shield for the weak? Are they fanatics of Please Love Us Daddy We Only Want You To Be Proud Of Us? 2 out of 3 of those, we can work with.
 
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