Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Sigmar is the most useless god to use this on, jokes about Italian plummets aside-he does not seem to have other faces.
I mean, a not uncommon theory is that there's a connection between Sotek and Sigmar, considering that both are connected to Twin-tailed Comets and that in recent editions Sotek is not neccesarily an Old One.

Would also help explain why Sotek the Snake's pictogram is on the Obernarn Stone.
 
We did apply wind magic to it, that makes it explode into winds, great it you are casting High Magic spells or hell even Cataclysm spells outside a storm of magic, but interesting is not what I would call it
That was Mathilde investigating the substance so she could have dwarven levels of thoroughness before involving a Runelord.
She wasn't actually trying to find a use for it.
We still have three (as Jreengus reminded me) options that relate to Wind magic which we haven't looked into.

Before this vote, there were people saying we should give just AV to Runelords and close the case because nothing we could do could compare.

And lo, the fire of the gods appears and now it's one of the most contentious votes in the quest.

I wouldn't dismiss the remaining options so quickly as uninteresting. I for one would never have thought of either option that Boney came up with, so just because I can't think of anything, doesn't mean that Mathilde won't come up with anything.
 
I mean, a not uncommon theory is that there's a connection between Sotek and Sigmar, considering that both are connected to Twin-tailed Comets and that in recent editions Sotek is not neccesarily an Old One.

Would also help explain why Sotek the Snake's pictogram is on the Obernarn Stone.

True, I had forgotten that, but we are likely not going to Lustria to chase down lizards anytime soon.
 
That is two AP because we do not know how to make powerstones. Trying to shake 2AP loose on a turn for non job expenses is not easy at the best of times
We could just reveal the fact that AV exists and hire someone who can make powerstones for some CF, letting us get it done in 1AP.

Unless, of course, we go for Truth, in which case we'll feel obligated to up the secrecy level of AV so that we don't get found out.
 
That was Mathilde investigating the substance so she could have dwarven levels of thoroughness before involving a Runelord.
She wasn't actually trying to find a use for it.
We still have three (as Jreengus reminded me) options that relate to Wind magic which we haven't looked into.

Before this vote, there were people saying we should give just AV to Runelords and close the case because nothing we could do could compare.

And lo, the fire of the gods appears and now it's one of the most contentious votes in the quest.

I wouldn't dismiss the remaining options so quickly as uninteresting. I for one would never have thought of either option that Boney came up with, so just because I can't think of anything, doesn't mean that Mathilde won't come up with anything.

I was expecting to be able to get something from divine magic, there were even theories similar to this, I cannot recall much in the way of interest or enthusiasm for 'weaponize' or 'enchantment' and in the absence of that excitement you are likely not getting a vote through.
 
We technically already have the ability to create power stones from all winds already just from working with elves. Also even if we do want to take those AP in one go because there is no guarantee we will even pass the power stone course... which means they have to be on different turns, which has just pushed the AV study six or so updates down the line at the most optimistic.. assuming nothing else happens IC to need that AP.
Not sure if you saw my edit but I when I said next I meant as our next course of study not next turn. As for elves supplying Powerstones we can already buy them if we want to from the colleges. I'm mainly thinking of the benefit of having the inhouse knowledge and experience in WEBMAT.
 
We could just reveal the fact that AV exists and hire someone who can make powerstones for some CF, letting us get it done in 1AP.

Unless, of course, we go for Truth, in which case we'll feel obligated to up the secrecy level of AV so that we don't get found out.

So you want to trust random magisters or LM, who have never worked with the stuff to do never before tested stuff with the unique daemon guts... and that is before we publish the book on the stuff?

I mean on the one hand they could explode, but even worse we could lose credit. :V
 
Unless, of course, we go for Truth, in which case we'll feel obligated to up the secrecy level of AV so that we don't get found out.
...I had not considered that going for Truth means that it becomes pretty unsafe to publish our work. Oof. That means that trying to find Teclisean applications that the Colleges could use (like refueling the Winds on a battlefield to allow Battle Wizards to continue operation, which seems like the most straightforward possible result from booping it with a powerstone) becomes kind of closed off forever, since we won't be able to share.

Ugh. Previously I was OK with Truth winning, even if I preferred Faith, but preemptively closing off our ability to find other prosocial uses for it really rubs me the wrong way.
 
Not sure if you saw my edit but I when I said next I meant as our next course of study not next turn. As for elves supplying Powerstones we can already buy them if we want to from the colleges. I'm mainly thinking of the benefit of having the inhouse knowledge and experience in WEBMAT.

That is still an indefinite amount of time away for indefinite results that might or might not do something. Looking back at the history of the decades since Mathilde has had AV that does not inspire much confidence in me. I would rather take the world changing thing that is staring us in the face.
 
Hmmm, some good points were made in the last page. I think faith will be a fun option too, if it wins, because doing more with ranald is always fun. I just think that I like the truth option more right now. The idea of stealing from the gods sounds interesting in a way that I haven't had in a while.
And for the people who said that it's important to also get the good God prints, ye it's important. I just want to go for the bad gods first to see. How they react, if they can tell and what they throw at us for it. We are still stealing from GODs and should take a prudence we can. Yes we should Id Sigmar and ulric and Verena but not as our first target...
 
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...I had not considered that going for Truth means that it becomes pretty unsafe to publish our work. Oof. That means that trying to find Teclisean applications that the Colleges could use (like refueling the Winds on a battlefield to allow Battle Wizards to continue operation, which seems like the most straightforward possible result from booping it with a powerstone) becomes kind of closed off forever, since we won't be able to share.

Ugh. Previously I was OK with Truth winning, even if I preferred Faith, but preemptively closing off our ability to find other prosocial uses for it really rubs me the wrong way.

OK I have to ask where is the notion that we cannot share AV coming from? That is like saying that because you are in the habit of taking fingerprints you can't share the ink to do other things with. I do not think random magisters on the a battlefield no less will run at us with blessed items to dip in the AV for an aha moment.
 
Faith is about trusting Ranald to make the best of our gift to him. Until now, he hasn't given us reasons to doubt him.

And while the whole plausible deniability is certainly possible, Mathilde's own hypothesis in the update WAS that Ranald didn't notice. Hell, even if Ranald noticed and kept quiet other gods might not be so chill.

And as said before, I wouldn't want to spy on gods without our own god in our corner to shroud our actions.
 
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...I had not considered that going for Truth means that it becomes pretty unsafe to publish our work. Oof. That means that trying to find Teclisean applications that the Colleges could use (like refueling the Winds on a battlefield to allow Battle Wizards to continue operation, which seems like the most straightforward possible result from booping it with a powerstone) becomes kind of closed off forever, since we won't be able to share.

Ugh. Previously I was OK with Truth winning, even if I preferred Faith, but preemptively closing off our ability to find other prosocial uses for it really rubs me the wrong way.
I'm not quite following: why does picking Truth lead to closing off our ability to find other prosocial uses for AV?

I mean, I can see how the knowledge of AV being able to take divine fingerprints could lead to us wanting to be more secretive about it, and that could close doors to prosocial uses, but that'll still be true if we pick Faith.

Am I missing the point here?
 
Hmph. All this talk of "oh we'll totally only go after jerk god signatures" may not be precisely what I was concerned about earlier, but it's giving me the same impression that future attempts to actually implement the results of this vote are liable to run into further acrimonious disagreement. I'm in agreement with the position that most of the obvious benefits here will require willingness to cast a wide net, but if that's not the consensus among my fellow voters, then...

This. So much.

People are acting like this will be a great research and stuff but the true is that it will be added to the pile and every time we try to do research on it no one will be able to agree if we should or who should we do it to and, in the end, we will end up not doing it at all.
 
Ugh. Previously I was OK with Truth winning, even if I preferred Faith, but preemptively closing off our ability to find other prosocial uses for it really rubs me the wrong way.

I feel this would be no different than the use the AV has for Anvils of Doom. Sure it's helping them, but mechanically we're just using the AV as a currency for DF. In this case, I feel it'd be the same only we'd be using it in exchange for CF.
 
Hmmm, some good points were made in the last page. I think faith will be a fun option too, if it wins, because doing more with ranald is always fun. I just think that I like the truth option more right now. The idea of stealing from the gods sounds interesting in a way that I haven't had in a while.
And for the people who said that it's important to also get the good God prints, ye it's important. I just want to go for the bad gods first to see. How they react, if they can tell and what they throw at us for it. We are still stealing from GODs and should take a prudence we can. Yes we should I'd Sigmar and ulric and Verena but not as our first target...
I think the biggest issue with who to collect is that there are lots of conflicting visions ranging from: of course we will collect good gods to bad gods first to only bad gods. Goals range from IDing cults to stopping Waaaghs to killing Gods. This diversity of goals and motivations, combined with competing AP actions does give me concern that Truth won't be followed up for a very long time, in which case its benefits are non-exstistant.
 
So you want to trust random magisters or LM, who have never worked with the stuff to do never before tested stuff with the unique daemon guts... and that is before we publish the book on the stuff?
I want to avoid wasting AP out of a desire to hide knowledge from both our own college and even from the other members of WEB-MAT.
OK I have to ask where is the notion that we cannot share AV coming from? That is like saying that because you are in the habit of taking fingerprints you can't share the ink to do other things with. I do not think random magisters on the a battlefield no less will run at us with blessed items to dip in the AV for an aha moment.
You already don't want to share knowledge of AV, and given as we haven't shared knowledge of AV that seems to currently be the majority position. Given an additional reason to keep it secret (the gods might know that it can be used in this way, and investigate whether we're doing so) do you really think we'll become more open about it?
 
I think the biggest issue with who to collect is that there are lots of conflicting visions ranging from: of course we will collect good gods to bad gods first to only bad gods. Goals range from IDing cults to stopping Waaaghs to killing Gods. This diversity of goals and motivations, combined with competing AP actions does give me concern that Truth won't be followed up for a very long time, in which case its benefits are non-exstistant.
I mean, if that happens then by the same token the risks will be non-existant.
 
...I had not considered that going for Truth means that it becomes pretty unsafe to publish our work. Oof. That means that trying to find Teclisean applications that the Colleges could use (like refueling the Winds on a battlefield to allow Battle Wizards to continue operation, which seems like the most straightforward possible result from booping it with a powerstone) becomes kind of closed off forever, since we won't be able to share.

Ugh. Previously I was OK with Truth winning, even if I preferred Faith, but preemptively closing off our ability to find other prosocial uses for it really rubs me the wrong way.
I really doubt that is an issue. For one, AV already is out there, because we've sold a good chunk to runesmiths. So perfect secrecy isn't possible in any case. And if we put it out there, then so other wizard might decide to do the same as us and make a ruckus, but the blame will fall on them (and it probably doesn't happen anyway because Avatar is kind of a prerequisite and incredibly rare, while the Cults probably wouldn't try for the direction). They won't immediately search Mathilde for heretical secrets.

The thread might hold back on publishing for extra secrecy, but I'm sure it's not a requirement, and publishing would be a risk anyway (jealous mages, chaos dudes, etc).

And on a meta-gaming level, I think Boney would spell something like that out, because it really would suck and it's not exactly obvious.
 
...I had not considered that going for Truth means that it becomes pretty unsafe to publish our work. Oof. That means that trying to find Teclisean applications that the Colleges could use (like refueling the Winds on a battlefield to allow Battle Wizards to continue operation, which seems like the most straightforward possible result from booping it with a powerstone) becomes kind of closed off forever, since we won't be able to share.

Ugh. Previously I was OK with Truth winning, even if I preferred Faith, but preemptively closing off our ability to find other prosocial uses for it really rubs me the wrong way.
How is that any different for Faith? We don't have to mention anything about the interaction with the Divine. So that only leaves people extrapolating from what we publish on non-Divine interactions, and that isn't solved by the Faith option.
 
...I had not considered that going for Truth means that it becomes pretty unsafe to publish our work. Oof. That means that trying to find Teclisean applications that the Colleges could use (like refueling the Winds on a battlefield to allow Battle Wizards to continue operation, which seems like the most straightforward possible result from booping it with a powerstone) becomes kind of closed off forever, since we won't be able to share.

Ugh. Previously I was OK with Truth winning, even if I preferred Faith, but preemptively closing off our ability to find other prosocial uses for it really rubs me the wrong way.

Errr, how does Faith do anything different? The ability to come to this conclusion exists independently of us researching AV further.

Truth or not changes nothing on using it for other prosocial causes.
 
Hmm. Once we properly exploit this and get enough divine knowledge out of this and any other research avenues it opens up, I think we will be able to actually pull second coming of Nagash convincingly, if we go down that route.
 
...I had not considered that going for Truth means that it becomes pretty unsafe to publish our work. Oof. That means that trying to find Teclisean applications that the Colleges could use (like refueling the Winds on a battlefield to allow Battle Wizards to continue operation, which seems like the most straightforward possible result from booping it with a powerstone) becomes kind of closed off forever, since we won't be able to share.

Ugh. Previously I was OK with Truth winning, even if I preferred Faith, but preemptively closing off our ability to find other prosocial uses for it really rubs me the wrong way.

I mean at this point surely publishing AV at all is a no go regardless of who wins? At least until we figure out a way to reveal this without causing a war. Someone is gonna repeat this experiment in short order once AV is public.
 
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