Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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What's the motivation behind getting the Nova cannon? I get wanting to have a big gun, but having functional escorts seems more important? Also would really like to have -[] Gameified OMC (75 RP) and -[] Lower OMC Implant Specs (150 RP) to generate some naval officer heroes.

Also for warp communications slotting the -[] Shards of Humming Gemstone (100 RP) might just pay for itself considering it "discounts to technologies that involve resonance with the warp" which I would think covers empathy at range, Yelling into the Warp, and we might get discounts for it with the taste of chaos this turn.
 
It would be good to make a push for void development and defence related techs once we have a foundation in warp and chaos stuff and Denva is stable?
We do need more than one ship: If nothing else, having disposable ships is great for high risk techs.

Since this quest is meant to scale hard and presumably allow us to reap the benefits of doing so, we should be attempting to do so safely before the Imperium does the Draugr meme in our faces :V
 
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I gotta ask, how many turns do we plan to spend helping Denva clear out the corruption? I beleive the next action we should do is start gestating the Navigator after researching the appropriate techs. While he's growing up, we can start building our fleet.
 
Getting the navigator going seems cool and useful, but it doesn't really seem urgent? We have the void abacuses which fulfill much of the same purpose for now.
 
henkalv said:
What's the motivation behind getting the Nova cannon?
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Chaos may be the most common enemy, but they are not the only one.

We got confirmed Orcs, Necron, Eldar (Dark & Craftworld), Space marines.

Orcs & Necron will definitely be a fight. Dark Eldar already were a fight.
Craftworld Eldar and Space marines may also be a fight or may be diplomanced, depending on the situation.

We do need better weapons to stand against all of those.

Even in the current fight a single ship a size smaller than ours still managed to take down our void shields before we blasted them to pieces.
 
Speedemon22 said:
But to the same potential as a Navigator could as Neablis has pointed out in the past.
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Yes, but I don't think we urgently need that improvement right now.

If the benefit is that you can jump farther at once then that seems more useful when we have explored farther out and want to be able to return quick, but we aren't there yet.
LightLan said:
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But do we need the Nova cannon to deal with those? Especially for the eldar sensor tech seems more useful than a bigger gun. Seems equally useful to focus on techs that improve escort ships and build those instead first.
 
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armentho said:
our tripwire research got a bare pass or failed if i dont misremember as result our anti corruption sensors are faulty and unstable failing at random sometimes
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You remember this one incorrectly. This was the narrative flavor of how they were failing when Vita first made them. She compensated by making them more robust, but now chaos-taint reaching point where it corrupts the machine won't always trigger. Especially slow and stealthy and subversive corruption might manage it without anything being triggered.

However, that is in the vacuum without any other of our countermeasures.
henkalv said:
What's the motivation behind getting the Nova cannon? I get wanting to have a big gun, but having functional escorts seems more important? Also would really like to have -[] Gameified OMC (75 RP) and -[] Lower OMC Implant Specs (150 RP) to generate some naval officer heroes.

Also for warp communications slotting the -[] Shards of Humming Gemstone (100 RP) might just pay for itself considering it "discounts to technologies that involve resonance with the warp" which I would think covers empathy at range, Yelling into the Warp, and we might get discounts for it with the taste of chaos this turn.
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It is not just a big gun. It is a VERY big gun.
 
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LightLan said:
We do need better weapons to stand against all of those.
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I don't think we need a better weapon to fight any of them. The Imperium, for all its faults, has been fighting them with macros, lances, and torpedoes as their primary weapons and managing to mostly win.

While a better weapon would certainly make fights easier, it is not at all needed. The only thing we need is ships.

LightLan said:
Even in the current fight a single ship a size smaller than ours still managed to take down our void shields before we blasted them to pieces.
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Our flagship is a special case since we only have 4400 / 12000 or roughly one-third the weapons a grand cruiser should have. Compared to a purpose built Heavy Cruiser with 6000 BP spent fully on combat and I'm glad we were able to punch up as well as we did.

So not a matter of our weapons being good enough, just not have enough. Which is also solved by more ships.
 
meianmaru said:
You remember thid one incorrectly. This was the narrative flavor of how they were failing when Vita first made them. She compensated by making them more robust, but now chaos-taint reaching point where it corrupts the machine won't always trigger.

Especially slow and stealthy and subversive corruption might manage it without anything being triggered.
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thanks for the correction,tho the highlighted bit still a fundamental flaw,slow subtle corruption of the shield going undetected is a big issue for long term usage ,turns passive corruption into a "when'' rather than ''if" specially in regions where passive long lasting presence of artifacts and cultists is expected

is 100RP to fix to nip this issue on the bud before a nurglite or tzenchian cultist grooms a psy shield into chaos emitter (or just a random chaos star graffity gradually damaging the thing) while we are out,doubly so if we are leaving denva for a long term period

please for the love of god guys actually get ahead of the very obvious weak spot issue in our lynchpin against chaos before we leave denva on their own

i aint asking for a 400 RP vanity project
is a 100RP patch on a fundamental flaw on our vital asset against chaos
 
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armentho said:
of the things yet to be done:

they are the ''is safe to touch warp and chaos stuff'' benchmark

reliability to make the sensors on the shields work consistently (having your anti corruption sensor fail at random when doing warp research is asking for problems),our tripwire research got a bare pass or failed if i dont misremember as result our anti corruption sensors are faulty and unstable failing at random sometimes

faith because is a foundational tech in how to use belief as a passive way to shield against chaos,so even if you aint in a area covered in shields

and demonology because is foundational to studying demons

of the things already completed:

>chaos resistant machine spirit: make our tech less prone to corruption
>machine spirit psy shield: further buffs our psy shields resilience
>taste of chaos: ability to track down big concentrations of cultist activity
>hardware psy encryption: to deny warp scrying



no we havent,we did what we always do wich is one big push to leave things half cooked then leave it there for several turns and then come back to shit on fire because we didnt finish the job proper

im not asking for another "everything into anti-chaos research" turn,im asking for "do one research a turn,slowly chiping away this thing off,so by the time we leave we dont have to worry about it ever again"

consistent gradual progress rather than panicky crash development

like our entire anti chaos cults aproach plan relies on psy shield infrastructure,yet the sensors of said shield fail to catch chaos at random is a pretty big fundamental flaw on it,leaving without patching the ''sometimes the shield doesnt realize its been corrupted by chaos" is something awful

it costs 100RP to fix it and be done with it

my general idea is:

>next turn demonology
>following turn reliability for sensors
>finish up with faith

im begging you guys to spare 75-100 RP out 500-ish RP over 3 turns to save us headaches for ages to come
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I don't think the reliability is for the sensors. It's for the tripwires. The reason they fail is because their means of detection is to get very small sections broken by an attack; if psy shields have any appreciable attrition rate, this means this sensitivity needs to be reduced, which in turn reduces trustworthiness.

What Reliability does is it reduces psychic shield maintenance (less relevant to us) and improves Tripwires specifically. Still useful, but not urgent.

Getting navibean is urgent, because we want them raised near a society and not while we're fighting or whatnot, and because we're not sure what warping while gestating/very young will do to them.

Setting up R&D is urgent, because we need to do it while we have access to Denva. Same for warp comms.

Studying the Necrons is urgent, because getting near a necron ship or world could wake them up and that would be Bad.

Getting the fleet is urgent, because we need the BP from being here.

We could delay the fleet by getting warp comms and having the Miners build it from afar and send it to us/come and get it when it's ready.

Same with R&D, I suppose, if push comes to shove.
 
Nightlord256 said:
I don't think we need a better weapon to fight any of them. The Imperium, for all its faults, has been fighting them with macros, lances, and torpedoes as their primary weapons and managing to mostly win.

While a better weapon would certainly make fights easier, it is not at all needed. The only thing we need is ships.
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Neither Denva or we got the amount of ships the imperium regularly loses in those engagements.
We'd also have to regularly replace those losses.
Again and again.

Better tech means having less losses.
 
henkalv said:
Yes, but I don't think we urgently need that improvement right now.

If the benefit is that you can jump farther at once then that seems more useful when we have explored farther out and want to be able to return quick, but we aren't there yet.

But do we need the Nova cannon to deal with those? Especially for the eldar sensor tech seems more useful than a bigger gun. Seems equally useful to focus on techs that improve escort ships and build those instead first.
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It would also make Warp travel safer... but also: do you want our Navigator's first jump to be 10+ systems, or do you want to level them up a bit first?
armentho said:
thanks for the correction,tho the highlighted bit still a fundamental flaw,slow subtle corruption of the shield going undetected is a big issue for long term usage ,turns passive corruption into a "when'' rather than ''if" specially in regions where passive long lasting presence of artifacts and cultists is expected

is 100RP to fix to nip this issue on the bud before a nurglite or tzenchian cultist grooms a psy shield into chaos emitter (or just a random chaos star graffity gradually damaging the thing) while we are out,doubly so if we are leaving denva for a long term period

please for the love of god guys actually get ahead of the very obvious weak spot issue in our lynchpin against chaos before we leave denva on their own

i aint asking for a 400 RP vanity project
is a 100RP patch on a fundamental flaw on our vital asset against chaos
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How likely are we to run up against one of those who is in a position to do that undetected while we're in Denva right now? At best they corrupt a panel before Vita notices. Macro scale corruption of the shields was noticeable before Tripwires.
 
Haganeko said:
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is not a binary issue,you can still progress all things you mentioned while still getting the 101 done
it costs 100RP to deny chaos the "groom psy shield into chaos emitter over the decades" option

if we do demonology (as most as intending to do) and coop R&D (to increase our RP) we should have enough to spare to adress this fundamental flaw in our assets for gods sake

is not a 400RP niche research,is key issue at the core of our shields that isnt expensive to fix and that can save us for massive issues down the line
that we can easily patch for cheap

is like refusing to patch a gas leak in the gast tank just because isnt inmediatly urgent at the moment
there will be a spark and it will fuck us over because we are being greedy and spare 10 bucks for a plug

Haganeko said:
How likely are we to run up against one of those who is in a position to do that undetected while we're in Denva right now? At best they corrupt a panel before Vita notices. Macro scale corruption of the shields was noticeable before Tripwires.
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long short story,this flaw falls into the "is fine untill is not"
is low probability but is cumulative (chance of failure increase over time)
if it were to happen it would be a major pain in the ass,like a loose screw that comes off at the worst possible moment,or a load bearing part slowly decaying,or a gas leak igniting because a loose spark or climate change

it will eventually happen by virtue of being deployed around chaos over long periods of time

and we have a comparatively cheap (100 RP) way to fix it right here and now before the shit hits the fan

is not expensive(compared to those 200 to 400 actions we usually take),it doesnt require crippling overfocus commitment and it will save a "FUCK LETS SPEND 500 RP FIXING THISS SHIT" turn

again im not asking you guys to spend 104929392 RP every turn
but take this easy 100RP fix before we leave denva so we dont have to deal with inevitable "shield corrupted itself slowly under our nose" scenario and have to deal with over one or two turns of fixing shit
 
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Nightlord256 said:
I don't think we need a better weapon to fight any of them. The Imperium, for all its faults, has been fighting them with macros, lances, and torpedoes as their primary weapons and managing to mostly win.

While a better weapon would certainly make fights easier, it is not at all needed. The only thing we need is ships.
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This is fundamentally missing one extremely important detail: the Imperium has been fighting with those weapons and overwhelming numbers. And it is still dying piece by piece.

Oh, and the Imperium actually has some amount of functional Nova Cannons -equipped ships. So without them, we would be actually be fighting in some cases less advanced weapons than the Imperium.
 
How about we spend the boon we ought to be earning this turn on Denva R&D psychic shields (and one more, since we can choose two per boon)?
Neablis said:
-[][Boon] Expanded Technology Focus/sharing (write-in two tech trees)
They're still researching the General design/various Industry focus you gave them before, and will share techs & designs from those trees occasionally. Pick two more tech trees for them to start investing in and they'll share techs from those trees when they get them. This isn't a zero-sum game. Invest into their research capabilities to get more out of this.
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This ought to make Denva research the Psychic Shielding Reliability on their own and share it with us.
 
LightLan said:
How about we spend the boon we ought to be earning this turn on Denva R&D psychic shields (and one more, since we can choose two per boon)?

This ought to make Denva research the Psychic Shielding Reliability on their own and share it with us.
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thats fine by me,my idea at its core is

>leave the basics done so chaos doesnt have a "cripple denva with this one easy trick"

if we can outsource the reliability to denva im happy
 
meianmaru said:
This is fundamentally missing one extremely important detail: the Imperium has been fighting with those weapons and overwhelming numbers. And it is still dying piece by piece.

Oh, and the Imperium actually has some amount of functional Nova Cannons -equipped ships. So without them, we would be actually be fighting in some cases less advanced weapons than the Imperium.
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but why is the solution to this problem to get a bigger gun and not better sensors to find them, or better armor and shields to outlast them, or better engines to outmanouver them, or better officers to out-smart them? What capability does the Nova cannon give us that makes it better than one of the other many options we have to improve our fleet, and what problem does it solve that is urgent?

The main case I can see for it is if we need it to get through necron armor, but I think our main response to Necrons at this point should be to run away, in which case having a better engine seems better.
 
Nightlord256 said:
I certainly agree. I really want to grab gravity weapons, and nova cannons, and heavy shields, and heavy armor. Any of them would be a huge leg up for our fleet and all of them would be fantastic.

I just want to do it after seeing to our immediate defense.
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That's my rough draft for next turn right now. Building some candles to tide us over while we get the rest going.

Turn 32:
-[] Construction: repair shipyard, build 6 candles. Turn over candles to Denva.
-[] Diplomacy: Help Denva get their R&D up and running
-[] Research x2 (400 + 85 (Anexa) + 60 (Anexa staff) = 545 RP)
--[] Collaberative Computational R&D (250 RP)
---[] Anexa assist
--[] Gravity Weapons (200 RP)
--[] Abacus Manufacturing (50/100 -> 100/100 RP)
--[] Alternative Shielding Meanings (45/150 RP)
-[] Turn over Abacus Manufacturing, Star Charts, Collaberative R&D to earn two boons together with the diplomacy action.
-[] Spend last turn's boon. Options (Psyker, R&D: Psy-shields (should make Denva research Psychic Shielding Reliability on their own and share it with us, manufacturing (either permanent or one-time))
 
henkalv said:
but why is the solution to this problem to get a bigger gun and not better sensors to find them, or better armor and shields to outlast them, or better engines to outmanouver them, or better officers to out-smart them? What capability does the Nova cannon give us that makes it better than one of the other many options we have to improve our fleet, and what problem does it solve that is urgent?
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We already have the better sensors. And will get even better ones as part of the warp com research. That's not in doubt.

Better armor or shields would be useful too, but not quite as game-changing as the (Gravity Weapons + Biggest Booms) =>Nova cannons combo.

Those are exterminatus-grade nukes sent at range.
One hit, one kill. At long range.
Neablis said:
-[] The Biggest Boom (150 RP) So. There's no actual upper limit for how big a fusion warhead can get. But it does get more complicated to build bigger and bigger bombs. Let's figure that out. (Unlocks bigger, exterminatus-grade warheads for nukes. The other half of the research necessary for Nova Cannons)
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Only better things are vortex weapons.

Which.. uh. Have some reliability and warp-problems.
 
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LightLan said:
Turn 32:
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That is a nice plan. I'd toss 12 RP at updating the Candle blueprint with warp drives. Living space is the same cost as a Warp drive + Abacus, so the cost would stay the same.

Im also not sold on having Denva research psychic shielding. I think they are pretty set on that front after this turn. I'd say Biology and Cybernetics, which both have lots of lower cost techs that would be hugely beneficial to Denva (and nice for us to have as well).
 
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