Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
I would agree with you, but this is begging that some child finds a cult artifact and then starts dreaming about the "savior beyond the stars."
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Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
The cultists are currently being stomped on everywhere but the nest, which will be getting stomped on next turn. It'll be at least 5 years to research and start deploying regardless of what we do, and the locals probably won't have the attention to start really making use of it for 10.
Also, scavenging the Echo is almost certain to give some bonuses to it, so I'd sort of prefer to do that first. But if it's a deal-breaker for people who otherwise like my plan, I could be convinced to drop OMC Streamlining for it.
- Location
- Europe
Just caught up with the quest. Its a good read, had a lot of fun.
While it makes a lot of sense mechanically, is it really reasonable in universe to make use of the one time manufacturing boon right now? They're just coming out of a siege and commandeering a significant fraction of their industrial output for our own purposes rather than their, presumably, planned relief, repair, and reconquest efforts might be less than ideal. Though in concert with a suitable command action for coordination it might work very well.
While it makes a lot of sense mechanically, is it really reasonable in universe to make use of the one time manufacturing boon right now? They're just coming out of a siege and commandeering a significant fraction of their industrial output for our own purposes rather than their, presumably, planned relief, repair, and reconquest efforts might be less than ideal. Though in concert with a suitable command action for coordination it might work very well.
This is my goal. Get the industry up and running this turn while we support the nest reclamation, next turn work out a deal to borrow the Crucible ships, then crash-build a Stellar Ascendancy Space Force to immediately hand back into local control and make sure this shit never happens again.
In the immediate term, make up for the missing industry by loaning them a grand cruiser, thousands of bots, and the best combat-psyker in the system to help with the urgent battle.
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
I had a somewhat similar thought process but instead we retake the nest ourselves.
- Location
- Milky Way
As I understand the Research it mainly provides Information about how Chaos Cults works, which then result in them being easier to find. So it will probably be useful in the same turn or worst case next turn.
Salvaging the remnant pieces of the Echo of Apotheosis makes sense.
- Location
- Earth
I think this needs two actions.
I was thinking we would have some amount of time before the attack on the nest starts, to build the bots and get the Denvans ready if nothing else, and we could do it then. You may be right though, if so I'd say try to just nudge it into a stable orbit near the edge of the system to deal with next turn or go ahead and let the locals kick it into the sun.
Too many things to do too urgently.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There's a bit of an optimization challenge in front of us - it goes like this:
But I absolutely understand putting her on Curio Cabinet this turn.
Trip wires are in a similar, if less severe boat. The "put it in literally everything" techs are likewise followups. Not to mention that we need the reliability tech in the first place to let them be effective at preventing corruption of our implants - they're specifically vulnerable to slow-burn corruption, and these cultists will be the ones who successfully escaped W's net, and they came from a warband that demonstrated four novel attacks against Psy Shields in the first place.
Our fancy implants won't do so hot if they're turned against their user by a clever sleeper agent.
It's a conundrum, but with a little clever runoff, we might be able to make it work.
@Neablis , some rapid fire questions for you:
Basically: Neablis has let us put RP towards followups sight unseen before. Depending on what's available, we could take tripwires and its civvie followup this turn and have anexa on Curios, and then take faith and it's followup next turn with Anexa on the first one to make sure we get that follow-up.
And then chaos in the Denva system will have a very bad no good decade.
Faith has lead time, because it only becomes properly usable to us with the follow-up in bold. There's an argument for Anexa to be assigned, since a bad roll might put that follow-up out of reach for a while - it's in the "May" category, after all.
But I absolutely understand putting her on Curio Cabinet this turn.
Trip wires are in a similar, if less severe boat. The "put it in literally everything" techs are likewise followups. Not to mention that we need the reliability tech in the first place to let them be effective at preventing corruption of our implants - they're specifically vulnerable to slow-burn corruption, and these cultists will be the ones who successfully escaped W's net, and they came from a warband that demonstrated four novel attacks against Psy Shields in the first place.
Our fancy implants won't do so hot if they're turned against their user by a clever sleeper agent.
It's a conundrum, but with a little clever runoff, we might be able to make it work.
@Neablis , some rapid fire questions for you:
- Can we design, build, and use the advanced tech lab in the same turn?
- Can we get ballpark figures for the RP cost of the Civilian version followup to tripwires?
- And for the "non-objectionable faith" action?
- How much RP would 100 researchers get us?
- Can we temporarily get more (RP/Researchers) through a wartime resource sharing agreement with Denva via a diplomacy action?
- Likewise, for BP since we could in theory use their factories at 4 times speed and let them use it as normal during our non-construction actions.
- Can we temporarily get more (RP/Researchers) through a wartime resource sharing agreement with Denva via a diplomacy action?
- Is the entire command action needed for scavenging the Apotheosis? If so, how about for just keeping it available for scavenging on the turn after?
Basically: Neablis has let us put RP towards followups sight unseen before. Depending on what's available, we could take tripwires and its civvie followup this turn and have anexa on Curios, and then take faith and it's followup next turn with Anexa on the first one to make sure we get that follow-up.
And then chaos in the Denva system will have a very bad no good decade.
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- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
As long as we don't panic we should be able to handle everything
- Location
- Boston
If we can start using the free BP right away, could I suggest a second research action instead. Specifically to get Small-scale design-integrated psychic shielding (150 RP) which will add Psy shielding to all of our bots for free, and our vehicles, and our installations. Since our warp sensors function as an offshoot of our Psy-Shields this would be very useful for cultist hunting, beyond the base-line protection it gives them.
And carry a towel... Everyone does have their towel handy, yes?
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- Location
- Europe
I'm more talking about what your Victan action does. Because of the way turn plans work it becomes awkward to coordinate with other actors rather than run roughshod over them. Since we don't know what they planned to do with those 15,000 BP I find it hard to judge whether our plan uses them better than they "would have".
However, I think your plan broadly does what I'm looking for.
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
Of course, I wouldn't go anywhere without my wonderful towel.
So I absolutely want at least Large-Scale OMC done ASAP, as it's the primary remaining roadblock to being able to just place the Aetherion Industrial Complex under Cogitare control to be expanded and made use of via more-or-less free actions.
But I'm also strongly sympathizing with the people who want A Curio Cabinet of Cultists to help find the cultists who are even now running for cover... And although I haven't mentioned it, I'm also right there with you on how good it would be to spin up our own faith as a counter to Chaos, and right now may be the best possible time for it given everything that's just happened to the locals...
I think the strong push towards boosting the Cogitare in my current plan puts us in a good position to start establishing an actual religion within the next couple of turns... But I'm gonna have to think on this.
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
Well that's enough thread reading for now. I'm going to go play some video games.
I'm stepping away to figure out breakfast, but I'm currently strongly considering the merits of dropping Psychic Encryption and most of the Abacus progress for this turn in favor of A Curio Cabinet of Cultists and Faith is my shield?, and maybe also dropping OMC Streamlining to put the RP towards boosting Faith and/or immediately beelining towards figuring out our own religion.
In truth, we want to hit the ground running. We also want Denva to. Also no reason not to give them most of our tech. To be frank, they can't really use Aetherion or the hulls right now, they have their hands full rebuilding and rooting out chaos presently. May as well take them ourselves for a few turns and fix the refineries and build ships, especially since we were planning on building a mini-fleet anyway. Not to mention that Denva still doesn't have a way to escape their solar system. We need to finish Abacii to give it to them.
The benefit spending our boon mostly on fixing the orbitals and shipyard is that they're ours for now. We'll get a shitton of prod until we give them back that will more than pay for itself in one or two turns (depending on what we make), and there's no other reasonable way to do so. Like 7800 BP fucking prod, and if we don't, we're flat out stuck with what we have. Maybe even 8500~ depending on how superconductive goes. More than enough to pump our a small fleet. Repair the shipyard next turn, or whenever we want to build on the hulls. Preferably do some much-needed efficiency R&D and make some dedicated shipbound manufactorums so we have more than a pittance in the field.
We have more than enough insanely dangerous random unresearched shit in our hold, no need to scavenge the ship ourselves.
Anywho, tentative plan. We have a goddamn army now, motherfuckers, with tanks even. Never again!
[] Plan Sane and Sensible
-[] Repair Bay (1000 BP) - (125 BP structure, 875 BP (175 pts) Outer Hull)
-[][Aetherion] Keep.
-[] Spend Boon: banked manufacturing capacity.
-[] Construction x1 16600 BP (15000 boon, 1000 perm boon, 600 local), 2380 CP
--[] 130x Repair Aetherion Orbital Manufactories (machine-spirit) 13000 BP, 1950 CP
--[] Repair Large Shipyard (425/3000)
--[] Spector (100 BP, 20 CP)
--[] 5 x Light Humanized Machine-spirit infantry bots (60 BP, 20 CP) = 300 BP, 100 CP
--[] 10 x Medium Humanized Machine-spirit Infantry Bots (100 BP, 20 CP) = 1000 BP, 200 CP
--[] 5 x Heavy Machine-spirit humanized Infantry Bots with Machine Spirit Jammers (190 BP, 20 CP) = 950 BP, 100 CP
--[] Medium Machine-spirit tanks (375 BP, 5 CP)
--[] Basic Machine-spirit Artillery (450 BP, 5 CP)
-[] Orders
--[] Deal with Klyssar's Nest
-[] Research x2
--[] The Taste of Chaos (210 RP + 90 RP Anexa = 300 RP)
--[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (100 RP)
--[] Superconductive Shenanigans (50 RP)
--[] Abacus Manufacturing (40 RP)
-[] Anexa active Action: Research (The Taste of Chaos)
-[] Victan passive action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[] Technology Transfer (All corruption defenses & results from the Taste of Chaos)
-[][Boon] Permanent Manufacturing capacity
-[][Boon] Specialized Crew (Tech Priests)
Cogs are imperative to benefit from much faster R&D and uplifting and such. Boons conserved for an unknown future, instead of used to accelerate our development massively, or further our purposes are wasted boons.
The benefit spending our boon mostly on fixing the orbitals and shipyard is that they're ours for now. We'll get a shitton of prod until we give them back that will more than pay for itself in one or two turns (depending on what we make), and there's no other reasonable way to do so. Like 7800 BP fucking prod, and if we don't, we're flat out stuck with what we have. Maybe even 8500~ depending on how superconductive goes. More than enough to pump our a small fleet. Repair the shipyard next turn, or whenever we want to build on the hulls. Preferably do some much-needed efficiency R&D and make some dedicated shipbound manufactorums so we have more than a pittance in the field.
We have more than enough insanely dangerous random unresearched shit in our hold, no need to scavenge the ship ourselves.
Anywho, tentative plan. We have a goddamn army now, motherfuckers, with tanks even. Never again!
[] Plan Sane and Sensible
-[] Repair Bay (1000 BP) - (125 BP structure, 875 BP (175 pts) Outer Hull)
-[][Aetherion] Keep.
-[] Spend Boon: banked manufacturing capacity.
-[] Construction x1 16600 BP (15000 boon, 1000 perm boon, 600 local), 2380 CP
--[] 130x Repair Aetherion Orbital Manufactories (machine-spirit) 13000 BP, 1950 CP
--[] Repair Large Shipyard (425/3000)
--[] Spector (100 BP, 20 CP)
--[] 5 x Light Humanized Machine-spirit infantry bots (60 BP, 20 CP) = 300 BP, 100 CP
--[] 10 x Medium Humanized Machine-spirit Infantry Bots (100 BP, 20 CP) = 1000 BP, 200 CP
--[] 5 x Heavy Machine-spirit humanized Infantry Bots with Machine Spirit Jammers (190 BP, 20 CP) = 950 BP, 100 CP
--[] Medium Machine-spirit tanks (375 BP, 5 CP)
--[] Basic Machine-spirit Artillery (450 BP, 5 CP)
-[] Orders
--[] Deal with Klyssar's Nest
-[] Research x2
--[] The Taste of Chaos (210 RP + 90 RP Anexa = 300 RP)
--[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (100 RP)
--[] Superconductive Shenanigans (50 RP)
--[] Abacus Manufacturing (40 RP)
-[] Anexa active Action: Research (The Taste of Chaos)
-[] Victan passive action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[] Technology Transfer (All corruption defenses & results from the Taste of Chaos)
-[][Boon] Permanent Manufacturing capacity
-[][Boon] Specialized Crew (Tech Priests)
Cogs are imperative to benefit from much faster R&D and uplifting and such. Boons conserved for an unknown future, instead of used to accelerate our development massively, or further our purposes are wasted boons.
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- Location
- Boston
Quick point of information @Cookiesndip, we already have a captive holding cells built. Are you looking to build a 2nd one?
PS - I do like the idea of cashing in the BP boon this turn
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- Location
- colombia
We need consistent effort here
2 anti chaos research a turn
For warp research and chaos 101 we need
>taste of chaos
>cultist
>demonology
>MS chaos resistant
>MS psy shields
>improved tripwires
Thats a 2 chaos countetmeasures a turn,thats 3 turns,make it 4 given any setback or new developments
And still leave us space for researching other stuff each turn
By the time we leave denva should be able to handle the standard chaos vectors
2 anti chaos research a turn
For warp research and chaos 101 we need
>taste of chaos
>cultist
>demonology
>MS chaos resistant
>MS psy shields
>improved tripwires
Thats a 2 chaos countetmeasures a turn,thats 3 turns,make it 4 given any setback or new developments
And still leave us space for researching other stuff each turn
By the time we leave denva should be able to handle the standard chaos vectors
I'm repairing the depleted shielding on it, not the capacity, though?
Given we have chaos prisoners, I'd prefer the shielding be fixed.
No. Don't go all in on this shit.
There's always more. We almost got blown up and taken over if not for Cia, because you guys are like a dog with a bone when it comes to warptech and neglect everything else entirely. What we have is more than 'good enough' with Taste of Chaos and Demonology (and the latter I'm tentative about and might replace with manufactory tech). We would get utterly obliterated by any ship of comparative size, and even this thing dealt hull damage.
Our mobile production capacity is beyond garbage (something we can and should specifically focus on while we're here), we have no fleet or ships, we have no R&D labs internally, etc. etc. We aren't spending 90% of our actions and researches here at Denva researching more goddamn warptech, when 90% of the purpose coming back to Denva was to use their manufacturing. We won't have it after we leave, so take that into account.
Remember, the whole reason we stopped researching void manufacturing is because Denva would have it. Well, now we're here, and we're still at a 1:10 ratio. Priorities, people, the next time we're almost definitely going to have a grand cruiser tossed at us, and we will lose badly.
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I'm not gonna let the opportunity to scavenge a freshly killed enemy ship for more options pass us by. (or well, I'm not gonna vote for a plan that lets it pass us by) Yes, we have a ton of options, yes, we might not actually get to research it for many turns. But we don't know what comes out of it, and it might be really, really good.
- Location
- Boston
Ahh, the shielding their is at full the first number is amount of cells we are currently using.
Er... are you sure you want to argue that your problem is too much warp-tech on the turn when our psychic shielding is 7/240? Because it looks to me like we spent just barely enough.
We already have Dark Eldar shit and a ship, a part of the Emperor's armor, fucking Necrons, our daemon pet, all sorts of cultist shit, cultists themselves, chaos space marines/their armor, etc. etc. We have more than enough that we will never get to, and there will be many more where that thing came from.
The benefit is negligible and feels more like 'oh shinies!' than something sane. We're already nearing something out of SCP or Trazyn's wet dreams.
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