Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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I don't feel that psykers are not useful, but I do think they need a lot more care and attention, with a lot more risk, for a lot less immediate utility than Cogitare.

Once we've got the Cogitare reestablished as a major local faction under our control and we've done some more of the psyker as opposed to warp research (amplification and suppression devices, probably some other stuff, maybe setup our own religion) we'll be in a good position to leverage our ability to help the monasteries in exchange for access to their psykers... Or even just do an end-run around them by starting to find and recruit psykers ourselves before they can.
 
@Alectai
Nearly the sames as the Plan I was Working on.
Not sure the Psychic Experimentation Lab helps, we may need the Warp Research Lab.
Not sure about using a boon for Psyker.
Is there a reason you don't transfer technology?
 
Aerrow Shadow said:
@Alectai
Nearly the sames as the Plan I was Working on.
Not sure the Psychic Experimentation Lab helps, we may need the Warp Research Lab.
Not sure about using a boon for Psyker.
Is there a reason you don't transfer technology?
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... I should have, it's not automatic?

You're right though, having re-read the update, I'll put that money elsewhere.
 
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LightLan said:
Those bots are way to expensive to build until we can shake lose the 300 RP for cheap void shields and the 150RP for integrated psy shields.

Not worth the design imo, would rather finish up the Abacus or spend the 50 on Superconductive Shenanigans (50 RP). 5-15% more production depending on rolls.
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That is the design im talking about. As a friendly rebuttal I'd say that they are expensive because they are valuable. 1000 Bots with Psy and Void shields would make a huge difference for our operations retaking the nest this turn.

Although I think the main value is in the detection offered by the psy shields. Would you consider a modified version with just Psy Shielding? It would drop the RP cost to 50/2= 25 and the build cost to 683 per 1000. Still expensive but feasible to build.

Id be okay with superconductors if not.

Also Id say put your floating boon on 2x permanent manufacturing. More BP as a free action can only be a benefit.
 
This is only legal, if we can spend the building boon without taking a build action, but it would be hilarious.

[] Plan: Secure the system
-[][Repair Bay]: Fix up your ship, prioritize your nearly depleted psy shields. Psychic Shielding Outer Hull (7/240 HP -> 207/240 HP), 0/125 structure damage, 510/540 HP Oubliette
-[][Aetherion] Keep.
-[] Boons:
--[] Help conquer Klyssar's nest (+1)
--[] transfer OMC/machine spirit technology (+1)
--[] transfer corruption defenses, including all Psychic shielding, Cognition Filter & warp sensors. This will also mandate you to transfer basic cultist detection if you get it. (+1)
--[][Boon] Permanent Manufacturing capacity
--[][Boon] Specialized Crew (Diplomats for Victan)
--[][Boon] Specialized Crew (Cogitare for Anexa)
--[][Boon] Psykers
--[][Boon] One more to spend
-[][Free due to boons] Construction (15000 BP boon spent + 1000 BP perm boon + 1000 Repair Bay):
--[] Psychic Shielding Outer Hull (7/240 HP -> 240/240 HP) [1000 Repair Bay BP gone] (165 BP)
--[] 125 BP structure damage
--[] 510/540 HP Oubliette -> 540/540 HP Oubliette (150 BP)
--[] Fix up Aetherion orbital manufactories to MS manufactories (13000 BP)
--[] Replace Psychic Experimentation Lab (-200 BP, as well as -675 BP for Max Shields) (875 BP)
--[] Specter x 3000 (300 BP)
--[] Medium Humanized Machine-spirit Infantry Bots x 3000 (300 BP)
--[] Heavy Machine-spirit humanized Infantry Bots with Machine Spirit Jammers x 3000 (570 BP)
--[] Light Machine-spirit tanks x 100 (150 BP)
--[] Build Stealth Asault Shuttles x 4 (100 BP)
-[] Research x2 (400 + 80 (Anexa) + 50(? may be a lil more) (Anexa staff) = 530 RP)
--[] A Curio Cabinet of Cultists (100 RP)
---[] Anexa assist
--[] Psychic Encryption (150 RP)
--[] Intelligence Coding (170/400 -> 400/400)
--[] Abacus Manufacturing (50/100 -> 100/100)
-[] Orders: Salvage the remnant pieces of the Echo of Apotheosis
-[] Orders: Free Klyssar's nest from the cultists. Deploy your bots, Cia and as many troops from Denva as W wants to provide.
-[] Anexa active Action: Research
-[] Victan passive action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[] Cia: Assist assault on Klyssar
 
Alectai said:
I mean, giving Cia a team of battle-nuns and doing Sororitas but Cooler would be kickin' rad, I'm less interested in a specific Hero Unit rather than just getting Cia some blorbos, now that they're blooded.
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Psykers are not going anywhere and Cogitare barely exist on Denva, if we want them to exist we need to act now.
But I must admit that psyker battle nuns equipped with "Yes" level of tech sounds metal as fuck.
On the other hand already blooded and determined psykers do not appear every day, we should take both, the crew must grow.
 
Picio said:
Psykers are not going anywhere and Cogitare barely exist on Denva, if we want them to exist we need to act now.
But I must admit that psyker battle nuns equipped with "Yes" level of tech sounds metal as fuck.
On the other hand already blooded and determined psykers do not appear every day, we should take both, the crew must grow.
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Yeah, agreed. I'll adjust, we've got the Boons for it. We're still net +1 at the moment as of my most recent revision, we'll want to build more Crew Quarters before we head off again though.
 
[] Plan Sane and Sensible
-[] Repair Bay (1000 BP) - (125 BP structure, 875 BP (175 pts) Outer Hull)
-[][Aetherion] Keep.
-[] Spend Boon: banked manufacturing capacity.
-[] Construction x1 16600 BP (15000 boon, 1000 perm boon, 600 local), 2380 CP
--[] 130x Repair Aetherion Orbital Manufactories (machine-spirit) 13000 BP, 1950 CP
--[] Repair Large Shipyard (425/3000)
--[] Spector (100 BP, 20 CP)
--[] 5 x Light Humanized Machine-spirit infantry bots (60 BP, 20 CP) = 300 BP, 100 CP
--[] 10 x Medium Humanized Machine-spirit Infantry Bots (100 BP, 20 CP) = 1000 BP, 200 CP
--[] 5 x Heavy Machine-spirit humanized Infantry Bots with Machine Spirit Jammers (190 BP, 20 CP) = 950 BP, 100 CP
--[] Medium Machine-spirit tanks (375 BP, 5 CP)
--[] Basic Machine-spirit Artillery (450 BP, 5 CP)
-[] Orders
--[] Deal with Klyssar's Nest
-[] Research x2
--[] The Taste of Chaos (210 RP + 90 RP Anexa = 300 RP)
--[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (100 RP)
--[] Superconductive Shenanigans (50 RP)
--[] Abacus Manufacturing (40 RP)
-[] Anexa active Action: Research (The Taste of Chaos)
-[] Victan passive action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[] Technology Transfer (All corruption defenses & results from the Taste of Chaos)
-[][Boon] Permanent Manufacturing capacity
-[][Boon] Specialized Crew (Tech Priests)

Anything that needs changing? Leveraging our boon and manufacturing as much as possible here. Following turn will have us at a full 10k prod~/action. In one turn we could literally build an entire fleet and secure this region properly.

Do note that they know, Bongo gave our all our info, and now they're kicked back to warpspace. I'd expect a follow up attack in a couple turns, in truth - either Eldar/Dark Eldar opportunists, or yet another Chaos band. We have to be ready. Denva is a prized target, especially us whose nature they are entirely aware of now.
 
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Cookiesndip said:
In truth, we want to hit the ground running. We also want Denva to. Also no reason not to give them most of our tech. To be frank, they can't really use Aetherion or the hulls right now, they have their hands full rebuilding and rooting out chaos presently. May as well take them ourselves for a few turns and fix the refineries and build ships, especially since we were planning on building a mini-fleet anyway. Not to mention that Denva still doesn't have a way to escape their solar system. We need to finish Abacii to give it to them.

The benefit spending our boon mostly on fixing the orbitals and shipyard is that they're ours for now. We'll get a shitton of prod until we give them back that will more than pay for itself in one or two turns (depending on what we make), and there's no other reasonable way to do so. Like 7800 BP fucking prod, and if we don't, we're flat out stuck with what we have. Maybe even 8500~ depending on how superconductive goes. More than enough to pump our a small fleet. Repair the shipyard next turn, or whenever we want to build on the hulls. Preferably do some much-needed efficiency R&D and make some dedicated shipbound manufactorums so we have more than a pittance in the field.

We have more than enough insanely dangerous random unresearched shit in our hold, no need to scavenge the ship ourselves.

Anywho, tentative plan. We have a goddamn army now, motherfuckers, with tanks even. Never again!

[] Sane and Sensible
-[] Repair Bay (1000 BP) - (125 BP structure, 875 BP (175 pts) Outer Hull)
-[][Aetherion] Keep.
-[] Construction x1 16600 BP (15000 boon, 1000 perm boon, 600 local), 2380 CP
--[] 130x Repair Aetherion Orbital Manufactories (machine-spirit) 13000 BP, 1950 CP
--[] Repair Large Shipyard (425/3000)
--[] Spector (100 BP, 20 CP)
--[] 5 x Light Humanized Machine-spirit infantry bots (60 BP, 20 CP) = 300 BP, 100 CP
--[] 10 x Medium Humanized Machine-spirit Infantry Bots (100 BP, 20 CP) = 1000 BP, 200 CP
--[] 5 x Heavy Machine-spirit humanized Infantry Bots with Machine Spirit Jammers (190 BP, 20 CP) = 950 BP, 100 CP
--[] Medium Machine-spirit tanks (375 BP, 5 CP)
--[] Basic Machine-spirit Artillery (450 BP, 5 CP)
-[] Orders
--[] Deal with Klyssar's Nest
-[] Research x2
--[] The Taste of Chaos (210 RP + 90 RP Anexa = 300 RP)
--[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (100 RP)
--[] Superconductive Shenanigans (50 RP)
--[] Abacus Manufacturing (40 RP)
-[] Anexa active Action: Research (The Taste of Chaos)
-[] Victan passive action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[] Technology Transfer (All corruption defenses & results from the Taste of Chaos)
-[][Boon] One-time Manufacturing Capacity (banked: 1)
-[][Boon] Permanent Manufacturing capacity
-[][Boon] Specialized Crew (Tech Priests)

Cogs are imperative to benefit from much faster R&D and uplifting and such. Boons conserved for an unknown future, instead of used to accelerate our development massively, or further our purposes are wasted boons.
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My version:
[] Plan: Aerithon Power
-[] Repair Bay (1000 BP) - (125 BP structure, 875 BP (175 pts) Outer Hull psychic shields)
-[][Aetherion] Keep.
-[] Spend Boon: banked manufacturing capacity.
-[] Construction x1 17600 BP (15000 boon, 2000 perm boon, 600 local), 2222 CP
--[] 130x Repair Aetherion Orbital Manufactories (machine-spirit) 13000 BP, 1950 CP
--[] Repair Large Shipyard (3000 BP)
--[] 10× Basic Stealth Assault Shuttle (25 BP, 5 CP) = 250 BP, 50 CP
--[] 1900 Specters (190 BP, 20 CP)
--[] 2× Basic Stealth Missile (10 BP, 2 CP)
--[] 3× 1000 Light Humanized Machine-spirit infantry bots (60 BP, 20 CP) = 180 BP, 60 CP
--[] 4× 1000 Medium Humanized Machine-spirit Infantry Bots (100 BP, 20 CP) = 400 BP, 80 CP
--[] 3× 1000 Heavy Machine-spirit humanized Infantry Bots with Machine Spirit Jammers (190 BP, 20 CP) = 570 BP, 60 CP
-[] Research x2 (2× 200 + 80 = 480 RP)
--[] The Taste of Chaos (220 RP + 80 RP Anexa = 300 RP)
--[] A Curio Cabinet of Cultists (100 RP)
--[] Drugs? Drugs.
--[] Overflow: Psychic Encryption
-[] Orders: Deal with Klyssar's Nest
--[] Use the drugs research to take people down less lethally. Use knowledge from our studies to screen cultists.
-[] Anexa active Action: Research (The Taste of Chaos)
-[] Victan passive action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[] Cia: help retake the Nest
-[] [Boon] +1 transfer new OMC/machine spirit technology
-[][Boon] +1 transfer corruption defenses, including all Psychic shielding, Cognition Filter & warp sensors.
-[][Boon] +1 reconquest Klyssar's Nest
-[][Boon] 2× Permanent Manufacturing Capacity
-[][Boon] Expanded Technology Sharing (Machine-Spirits, Biology)
-[][Boon] Psykers
 
Cookiesndip said:
Anything that needs changing? Leveraging our boon and manufacturing as much as possible here. Following turn will have us at a full 10k prod~/action. In one turn we could literally build an entire fleet and secure this region properly.
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Haganeko said:
My version:
[] Plan: Aerithon Power
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LightLan said:
[] Plan: Secure the system
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Alectai said:
[] Plan: Start Stacking the Sandbags.
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Could I persuade any of you to spend a boon on getting official NGO recognition for the Cogitare with us in charge and at least one more to set up ongoing recruitment campaigns for them? I don't think I can understate the degree to which that could pay off in even the medium term.
 
Rationales: Drugs + Cultist studies would help us with the Klyssar's Nest action. Would be lovely to get the Echo's salvage, but we have enough to study for now, and gettinh Aerithon online is something we need to do.
...also, I suspect that using Denvan permanent manufacturing to produce the bots we then use to help them retake the Nest is not something they would appreciate.
 
LightLan said:
This is only legal, if we can spend the building boon without taking a build action, but it would be hilarious.
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The one time building boon specifically modifies a construction action (below) versus the permanent boon which specifies a free action. So unfortunately not valid.

Neablis said:
One-time Manufacturing Capacity (banked: 1)
Grants +15,000 BP from Denvan manufacturing to a single construction action as you ask for material help.
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KyleDaScourge said:
Could I persuade any of you to spend a boon on getting official NGO recognition for the Cogitare with us in charge and at least one more to set up ongoing recruitment campaigns for them? I don't think I can understate the degree to which that could pay off in even the medium term.
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Could get that as the boon when we return Aerithon to them though I'm honestly more interested in Permanent Social Intervention for then.
 
Hm, another thing. @Neablis , will we get the ability to make the Dark Eldar splinter rifles for our bots directly from the Dark Eldar weapon study research?

KyleDaScourge said:
So I absolutely want at least Large-Scale OMC done ASAP, as it's the primary remaining roadblock to being able to just place the Aetherion Industrial Complex under Cogitare control to be expanded and made use of via more-or-less free actions.
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I'm not sure we can get free actions in a short time frame, outside the permanent manufacturing boon.

Even if we can, I think OMC techs can be deferred. With the industrial complex, we will have the BP we need for immediate operations. We just need to strike while the iron is hot about rooting chaos out of the system, because the longer we take on locking that down, the less certain we get to be about anything we do here.

I'm more in alignment with Lightlan's plan than yours at the moment, considering those factors.

Also Alectai's. I started drafting this before I had time to finish it and stuff had happened in thread, haven't yet caught up lol.

Of course, this is before clarifications and optimizations, so there's still a lot that can change.
Cookiesndip said:
--[] Demonology (140 RP)
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Hard-no to doing this without psy encryption and a external holding cell. Neablis laid out the risk, I will not have demons emerging inside of our ship. @Neablis , is Bongo's old vault (the 400 HP one) still there?

Also, I think we probably would have to roll for safety even if it doesn't complete this turn, since it's going to be directly interacting with Bongo. Deferring our research's payout is not the same as deferring Bongo's chance to pull Shenanigans.
 
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Haganeko said:
Rationales: Drugs + Cultist studies would help us with the Klyssar's Nest action. Would be lovely to get the Echo's salvage, but we have enough to study for now, and gettinh Aerithon online is something we need to do.
...also, I suspect that using Denvan permanent manufacturing to produce the bots we then use to help them retake the Nest is not something they would appreciate.
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Eh, I harshly disagree. The biggest thing we benefit from being in Denva is manufacturing. Elsewhere we have literally only 600 BP, and would take forever to build anything, even an incredibly small ship. We have to change that.

Our manufacturing tech is beyond garbage, shipbound we're still stuck at depressing 1:10 ratios here. We should be focusing on ship, design, and manufacturing technologies to leverage what we have to the best before we leave. Other stuff can be done in the void of space.

Nightlord256 said:
Anexa is 16th level so she produces 80 RP.
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Neablis said:
Specialties (3/4): Machine Spirits. The Warp, Cybernetics. Grants a +10 bonus when doing research rolls in the relevant category.
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Ah, thought it was +10. Whoops.

Prime 2.0 said:
Hard-no to doing this without psy encryption and a external holding cell. Neanlis laid out the risk, I will not have demons emerging inside of our ship. @Neablis , is Bongo's old vault (the 400 HP one) still there?
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Long changed to industry tech.
 
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