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Absolutes can make good catchphrases but the situation is most of the times more complex than that. Wich leaves the same catchphrases be often missquoted.

We have some weakness that should be shored up, they need because not doing so is end up in GG.

That being said by her very Nature Vita is not predisposed to a evenly distributed setup, she do have very strong points focused around basically being a better version of the Mechanicus.
So coldtech before biotech and that before psytech for most cases.
 
So, because I apparently have nothing better to do today, here's a rough outline of research priorities for the near future. 100% subject to change, but here's my outline for the moment.

Cybernetics
-[] Large-Scale organic-machine Control (100 RP)
-[] Void Organic-Machine control (100 RP)

Machine Spirits
-[] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP)

General Design
-[] Abacus Manufacturing (50 RP)
-[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (50/100 RP)

The basic thinking is to first get the rest of the OMC basics and Abacus Production out of the way. Machine Spirit Chaos resistance goes here too because given how incredibly useful machine spirits continue to be, I really don't want them getting corrupted, particularly given the upcoming swerve in warp research. Also start chewing away at Large-scale Void Manufacturing, which I believe to be the future of our industry. Hopefully this turns non-research actions will include building a Warp Research Lab in the outer system, but that may take a back-seat based on what we actually find regarding Denva.
The Warp
-[] Immaterium Understanding (225 RP)

General Design
-[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (25/50 RP)

Psychic Shielding
-[] Psychic Encryption (150 RP)

This turn, Immaterium Understanding is probably going to discount a lot of things that we'll be looking into over the next several turns so it makes sense to get it first. Psychic Encryption is also important and frankly we've been letting Bongo watch us for far too long already. I'm sort of banking on Cia eventually being able to really-kill his ass, because he knows too much as it is, but Psychic Encryption will hopefully keep other gribblies from getting into a similar position in the future.
Psychic Shielding
-[] Alternative Shielding Meanings (150 RP)
-[] Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP)

General Design
-[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (25 RP)

Machine Spirits
-[] Large-scale Machine spirits (75 RP)

This is sort of a miscellaneous turn, which I have mixed feelings about. Alternative Shielding Meanings does need to get done and I don't think anything here is unimportant but this is also the first turn after Immaterium Understanding and the expected discounts from that start really throwing off my predictions. If it turns out to be possible to fold Empathy at Range and/or Yelling into the Warp into this turn, that would probably be the thing to do.
The Warp
-[] Empathy at Range (200 RP)
-[] Yelling into the Warp (175 RP)

Machine Spirits
-[] Machine Spirit Hallucinations (25/300 RP)

In addition to the basics for Warp Communications, I really want to get started on Machine Spirit Hallucinations. More research is always better, but even as I type this I'm expecting that by the time we get to this turn events will have transpired such that we'll have other priorities. Optimistically, this could be the turn where we actually unlock Warp Communications.
The Warp
?? Warp Communication ??
Hopefully a sharp turn towards Machine Spirit Hallucinations, Companion Cogitators, and Intelligence Coding although which would be best is up for debate. I'm inclined to think Companion Cogitators, because humans are in plentiful supply and the ability to bring them closer to our level is likely to be easier to get off the ground with than producing more Stone-People. Also we can just pick ones we like and who have compatible/useful goals to so empower rather than trying to engineer a personality which would be inclined to do what we want from scratch.
Build our first warp communicator and go check on Vothryn.
 
So, because I apparently have nothing better to do today, here's a rough outline of research priorities for the near future. 100% subject to change, but here's my outline for the moment.

Cybernetics
-[] Large-Scale organic-machine Control (100 RP)
-[] Void Organic-Machine control (100 RP)

Machine Spirits
-[] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP)

General Design
-[] Abacus Manufacturing (50 RP)
-[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (50/100 RP)

The basic thinking is to first get the rest of the OMC basics and Abacus Production out of the way. Machine Spirit Chaos resistance goes here too because given how incredibly useful machine spirits continue to be, I really don't want them getting corrupted, particularly given the upcoming swerve in warp research. Also start chewing away at Large-scale Void Manufacturing, which I believe to be the future of our industry. Hopefully this turns non-research actions will include building a Warp Research Lab in the outer system, but that may take a back-seat based on what we actually find regarding Denva.
The Warp
-[] Immaterium Understanding (225 RP)

General Design
-[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (25/50 RP)

Psychic Shielding
-[] Psychic Encryption (150 RP)

This turn, Immaterium Understanding is probably going to discount a lot of things that we'll be looking into over the next several turns so it makes sense to get it first. Psychic Encryption is also important and frankly we've been letting Bongo watch us for far too long already. I'm sort of banking on Cia eventually being able to really-kill his ass, because he knows too much as it is, but Psychic Encryption will hopefully keep other gribblies from getting into a similar position in the future.
Psychic Shielding
-[] Alternative Shielding Meanings (150 RP)
-[] Machine Spirit-controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP)

General Design
-[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing (25 RP)

Machine Spirits
-[] Large-scale Machine spirits (75 RP)

This is sort of a miscellaneous turn, which I have mixed feelings about. Alternative Shielding Meanings does need to get done and I don't think anything here is unimportant but this is also the first turn after Immaterium Understanding and the expected discounts from that start really throwing off my predictions. If it turns out to be possible to fold Empathy at Range and/or Yelling into the Warp into this turn, that would probably be the thing to do.
The Warp
-[] Empathy at Range (200 RP)
-[] Yelling into the Warp (175 RP)

Machine Spirits
-[] Machine Spirit Hallucinations (25/300 RP)

In addition to the basics for Warp Communications, I really want to get started on Machine Spirit Hallucinations. More research is always better, but even as I type this I'm expecting that by the time we get to this turn events will have transpired such that we'll have other priorities. Optimistically, this could be the turn where we actually unlock Warp Communications.
The Warp
?? Warp Communication ??
Hopefully a sharp turn towards Machine Spirit Hallucinations, Companion Cogitators, and Intelligence Coding although which would be best is up for debate. I'm inclined to think Companion Cogitators, because humans are in plentiful supply and the ability to bring them closer to our level is likely to be easier to get off the ground with than producing more Stone-People. Also we can just pick ones we like and who have compatible/useful goals to so empower rather than trying to engineer a personality which would be inclined to do what we want from scratch.
Build our first warp communicator and go check on Vothryn.

Why wait so long for warp comms? Get those first. Then we can set up a station for it on Denva, and do a research institute with them, and share research more generally, and it'll make all the rest easier, while also allowing us to build more fleets and send out sensor ships and all sorts of cool stuff like that.
 
Cybernetics
-[] Large-Scale organic-machine Control (100 RP)
-[] Void Organic-Machine control (100 RP)
One thing worth noting is that, before we left, Neablis frequently said that OMC techs were going to be a high priority for Denva's research program. I suspect that Void OMC at least will already be done.

The other bit is that we'll want to have machine spirit controlled psy shields and Faith researched before Immaterium Understanding - otherwise we'll miss discounts being applied to their follow-ups. Maybe reliable tripwires too? That one seems more like an engineering problem than a warp understanding one.

I think. Like, it seems as though the same principle that applies to studying the DEldar boarding craft would apply here, but this is fundamental research rather than cribbing somebody's notes, so I'm not actually sure if it does. MSCPS's follow-up for regenerating shields is one of the things to turn shields into a viable export good, so it sticks out in my head.

Personally, I actually have quite an interest in the stealth techs right now - but whether or not they're immediately applicable the way I imagined would depend heavily on the state Denva.

Likewise, how much research assistance we can expect from plugging away at warp comms is up in the air from their state. I'm positive that they would be over the moon at the chance to have it, but how much capacity do they have right now? Questions, questions.

Improved abacuses would have an outsized effect on Denva's ability to help in the system and otherwise see to their own security - and us finally popping the cork on the navibean would in turn let Vita follow up on those far-flung out-of-sector plot hooks with ease - and given that we're the odd one out for having slow warp travel, that will probably include striking back at whoever attacked Denva.
Why wait so long for warp comms? Get those first. Then we can set up a station for it on Denva, and do a research institute with them, and share research more generally, and it'll make all the rest easier, while also allowing us to build more fleets and send out sensor ships and all sorts of cool stuff like that.
Because warp comms has three different techs we need, four if you count psy encryption, 5 if you count multi-meaning shields. Getting Immaterium Understanding before that chonker of a research binge is just good sense, and enhancing Denva's industry before any of those so it's humming the whole time makes even more.

Before focusing on forging our favorite sword, we need to make sure the forge is turned on and that our other irons are in the first first. Just how it is imo.
 
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My own research priorities:

-[X] Research x3 (400 + 75 + 20 = 695 RP)
--[X] Improved Passive Stealth (50 RP)
--[X] Combat Neural Implants (50 RP)
--[X] Faith is my shield? (75 RP)
--[X] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP)
---[X] Anexa assist
--[X] Machine Spirit Controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP)
--[X] Alternative Shielding Meanings (150 RP)
--[X] Psychic Encryption (150 RP, Boosted if necessary)
--[X] Improved Armor Articulation (50 RP if not spent to boost Psychic Encryption)
--[X] Empathy at Range (45 RP if not spent to boost Psychic Encryption, + Overflow, if any)

--[X] Empathy at Range
--[X] Yelling into the Warp
--[X] Demonology
--[X] Abacus Manufacturing (50 RP)
--[X] Large-scale Void Manufacturing?
--[X] Superconductors?
--[X] Large Scale Machine Spirits?
--[X] Advanced Materials?
--[X] Large-Scale organic-machine Control?
--[X] Void Organic-Machine control?

--[X] Warp comms
--[X] Large Scale Machine Spirits
--[X] Advanced Materials
--[X] Large-Scale organic-machine Control?
--[X] Void Organic-Machine control?
--[X] Intelligence Coding?

--[X] Intelligence Coding
--[X] Large-Scale organic-machine Control
--[X] Void Organic-Machine control
--[X] Immaterium Understanding?

Note that with wayfarer, we can only spend so many turns on Denva. Which is another reason to get warp comms, because then we can still work with them on research even after we go exploring elsewhere.

Because warp comms has three different techs we need, four if you count psy encryption, 5 if you count multi-meaning shields. Getting Immaterium Understanding before that chonker of a research binge is just good sense, and enhancing Denva's industry before any of those so it's humming the whole time makes even more.

Before focusing on forging our favorite sword, we need to make sure the forge is turned on and that our other irons are in the first first. Just how it is imo.

We'd get more out of Immaterium Understanding if we did it *after* all of those, because then it would discount their follow on researches instead. And while there are a lot of researches to get, they're all reasonably cheap, and the prereq tree is only two layers deep, so we could do that in three turns if we started now without needing to do a tech and it's follow on in the same turn. See my plan above.

As for Denva's industry, we already gave them a ton, and they're probably ahead of us at the moment - assuming hey haven't been trashed too badly by whoever showed up. Which they shouldn't have been, we left them defenses, even if they didn't build much in addition.
 
We'd get more out of Immaterium Understanding if we did it *after* all of those, because then it would discount their follow on researches instead. And while there are a lot of researches to get, they're all reasonably cheap, and the prereq tree is only two layers deep, so we could do that in three turns if we started now without needing to do a tech and it's follow on in the same turn. See my plan above.
I gave it a look, I just kinda disagree on timing.

The comms checklist is meaty enough and the prize valuable enough that I don't think this makes sense. Where psy shields are concerned this isn't like stealth where we haven't even touched the basics of the field yet - we should look first and foremost at what our priorities are and how this can help them, and the top of that list is "get warp comms faster".

This is particularly relevant when intel coding and stealth research and grav guns for Necrons are still burning a hole in our pockets. Opportunity costs are wicked right now even without considering how much stuff can start happening the second we have warp comms. Even if we saved RP overall by deferring - something I'm not actually convinced will be true - the delay to warp comms itself is probably not worth it.

Also, I don't see multi-meaning shields on there. If ship-scale shields are needed for inter-system comms units, then that tech will... not exactly be a requirement, we can still nest shields, but we'd really, really, really want to have it.
 
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I was thinking about the way that we get a lot more BP out of a manufacturing plant on our flagship than one in void or in another ship, and it occurred to me that building other ships for labs, scouting, and fighting would let us fill a grand cruiser full of factories. Go full homeworld, in other words.

I know I'm not the first to suggest this, but it seems like it might be more effective than trying to build factory ships. Then we could take the Spark and use the repair bay to strip out manufacturing, add weapons beck, and have it become our main combatant.

Why wait so long for warp comms? Get those first. Then we can set up a station for it on Denva, and do a research institute with them, and share research more generally, and it'll make all the rest easier, while also allowing us to build more fleets and send out sensor ships and all sorts of cool stuff like that.

I was going to say it makes sense to do it late given we are going to be here a while to let our navigator grow up around people, but then I realized I didn't see the navigator in any of the research priority lists, so IDK.
 
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I can't point to anything specific right now, but from the past couple of days skimming back through various things Neablis has said, I'm pessimistic on Denva's odds of having gotten much "real" research done, by our standards at least. I'll be thrilled if they've got large-scale and void OMC (And it would seem like the one (shipyards) would come before the other (ships)) but we'll see.

On the placement of Immaterium Understanding, the idea that it might be better to do any other warp research first because a better foundational understanding of the field would somehow be more useful if acquired later is... Odd, to me. Maybe that actually is how the mechanics of the quest itself have things working out but I'd want to hear from the QM on that one.
 
I gave it a look, I just kinda disagree on timing.

The comms checklist is meaty enough and the prize valuable enough that I don't think this makes sense. Where psy shields are concerned this isn't like stealth where we haven't even touched the basics of the field yet - we should look first and foremost at what our priorities are and how this can help them, and the top of that list is "get warp comms faster".

This is particularly relevant when intel coding and stealth research and grav guns for Necrons are still burning a hole in our pockets. Opportunity costs are wicked right now even without considering how much stuff can start happening the second we have warp comms. Even if we saved RP overall by deferring - something I'm not actually convinced will be true - the delay to warp comms itself is probably not worth it.

Also, I don't see multi-meaning shields on there. If ship-scale shields are needed for inter-system comms units, then that tech will... not exactly be a requirement, we can still nest shields, but we'd really, really, really want to have it.

We'd have to delay to get Immaterium Understanding anyway, though, cause we need to build a lab for it. So we might as well go ahead with the research that's already cheap and accessible in the meantime, and start chewing off the longer prereq leg, starting with ASM - that tech isn't likely to get discounted much anyway, as it's already sub 200. Psychic Encryption has the same thing going on, and is immediately useful for wrapping up Bongo, which is also something I want to make a priority of.

As for Intelligence Coding and Grav guns, I think those are both going to require a whole bunch more RP invested before they're really worthwhile, and so we should leave them until after we get warp comms.

Also, first I've heard about needing multi-meaning shields or the like. We already have nested shields, which I would think would be sufficient, assuming we need anything like that. If we need multi-meaning or triple-nested or the like, we can grab it when we find that out, it should be pretty cheap by then.
 
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Do other factions have long distance warp comms that are better than astropaths though? It seems like it's kind of just a consequence of the warp being very loud a lot of the time, to have difficulties and low bandwidth.

I'm also thinking about combining an engineered faith, psytech, genetic enhancements, and astropathic choirs to make formations of shrine worlds to cage demon worlds. Take back territory against chaos by putting faith bubbles around demon worlds to force them out of real space, so the rest of the space around them can be reclaimed and cleansed.

Do it enough and the calmer galaxy would soothe the warp- isolating and putting direct pressure on all the bleeding wounds is first aid, right?
 
We encouraged the Stellar Ascendency to model itself after the federation, a collection of states. "Uplift different people" was already the plan, and I've never skimped on planning specifics of how different polities could stand on their own side by side with Denva. We argued for days over how best to do that with Caldereth, remember?

Collective defense is a necessity in 40k, and Denva merely happens to be best equipped to bootstrap it and get those agreements and uplift moving. We spent a boon on making sure they'd do so ethically, and we're not far off from the warp comms to keep an eye on it even then, so I don't see the problem.

Nor do I see anyone arguing for imperialism. This is SV, decrying it is preaching to the choir.

Denva is our closest partner. We don't have to be them to see their success as beneficial, nor does their success come at the expense of other people we want to help. And without them, doing EMT for the whole subsector becomes way, way harder.

If an imperial faction rolled over Denva, that might be it, yeah.

If she did intervene, I bet that means she grabbed the 85. Classic W, most fitting name.

It came with me going to the map page to count the number of systems in between us and different factions and comparing it to navigator travel times. When I said "argued" with past tense in the quoted post, that should have been your cue to find the post I was referring to. If you did remember that earlier post or reread it, then I have no idea how you could think I didn't back my claims up.

And even then, my claim was that it was something that could happen, not that it did. It. Was. A. Hypothetical. Just like Bongo choosing to drive those ships into the planet was a hypothetical.

"It could plausibly have happened" - and you've made no argument why the citations I had don't say that's true. I did literary analysis, dice analysis, and analysis of the mechanics of travel time and you discarded all of it while forgetting what that analysis was even for despite me saying what it was for at length.

For you to come away from that and say I presented "no citations, no reasoning behind it, no concepts" was unnecessary, insulting, and objectively wrong.

Please ask me questions about my position rather than confidently saying it's wrong if you're not sure you understand or didn't have time to review the whole discussion.
People (not you) are talking about having Denva take over the sector. As far as I understand, that's an imperialist position.

Note that there is a difference between decrying the concept of imperialism and arguing that a given position is imperialist, though its defenders may not agree.

A citation is a reference. You cannot expect people to dig through all your poats to find context or argumentation that is missing. That aside, the post to which you linked contains, as far as I can tell, no calculations that would explain that "twenty years for a scout to come, another twenty for an alpha strike" estimation, much less provide confidence in it. You also have, as far as I can tell, not provided a reasoning as to why an alpha strike would be certain to follow.
The problem is, I was never claiming anything about what would happen in the update, or what did happen behind the scenes - just figuring out things that could plausibly have happened based on what we know. As a hypothetical, not as an actual claim that it did happen.

And because I was talking about general possibilities... the update isn't actually guaranteed to confirm or falsify that they were plausible? The main ways I see it showing "whether I'm right or not" is if we arrive in the middle of or after a third invasion, or the characters decide to do discuss the possibility of what I laid out and that discussion supports or shoots down.

Or there's just, a flat out A/N about it, but it would suck for this to have gotten bad enough that Neablis felt he had to do that.

I'm more bothered by this pattern Haganeko has of putting words in my mouth or otherwise wildly mischaracterizing me over things I was extremely clear about. This has happened a lot, one of the times turned out to also be Haganeko deliberately "taking a shot at me" by their own admission, and I'm tired of it.
You did not make claims that you were certain what would happen, but you proceeded to argue as if you had. You started confidently stating what the mistake was, what could be done to address it, and so on, as if a reliable claim of what went wrong, how, and why had been established—one that conformed to those predictions.

We have no way to know whether first contact was a year ago, ten, twenty, forty, or three hundred. What I was criticising was precisely this construction of a model of the problem and its causes in such a precise way as to corroborate one's beliefs. Even if such constructions turn out to be perfectly accurate, it is still hazardous to make such claims—as I said, hindsight is 20/20.

I cannot find an instance of me saying I was "taking shots" at you, but I may have used the expression erroneously. I am by no means attempting to attack you. I simply have had strong disagreements with your positions of late.
 
The Imperum has astropaths, that's not a high bar. XD
Kinda, it's less a performance issue with the imperium and more the fact they have horrible safety measures and logical shitshow that makes you wish you die before getting to it.

As for who have it better, well Skeletons and elves have the tech but not the reason to want big logistical chains.

While orks always know when the WAAAAAAAAAAGH needs Da Bois.
 
-[X] Research x3 (400 + 75 + 20 = 695 RP)
--[X] Improved Passive Stealth (50 RP)
--[X] Combat Neural Implants (50 RP)
--[X] Faith is my shield? (75 RP)
--[X] Machine Spirit Chaos resistance (75 RP)
---[X] Anexa assist
--[X] Machine Spirit Controlled Psychic Shields (50 RP)
--[X] Alternative Shielding Meanings (150 RP)
--[X] Psychic Encryption (150 RP, Boosted if necessary)
--[X] Improved Armor Articulation (50 RP if not spent to boost Psychic Encryption)
--[X] Empathy at Range (45 RP if not spent to boost Psychic Encryption, + Overflow, if any)
Slight miscalculation here Angle we no longer have any tech-priests on board due to leaving the last twenty we had behind on Calderath to start a Cogitare branch also I would put a boost Machine Spirit Chaos resistance condition on Machine Spirit Controlled Psychic Shields so as to avoid a poor roll rendering us unable to research Machine Spirit Controlled Psychic Shields.

EDIT: Also you've forgotten that we need to research Abacus Manufacturing for Denva like we promised too.
 
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Do other factions have long distance warp comms that are better than astropaths though? It seems like it's kind of just a consequence of the warp being very loud a lot of the time, to have difficulties and low bandwidth.

I'm also thinking about combining an engineered faith, psytech, genetic enhancements, and astropathic choirs to make formations of shrine worlds to cage demon worlds. Take back territory against chaos by putting faith bubbles around demon worlds to force them out of real space, so the rest of the space around them can be reclaimed and cleansed.

Do it enough and the calmer galaxy would soothe the warp- isolating and putting direct pressure on all the bleeding wounds is first aid, right?

No, but it doesn't stop them from instantly finding out anyway, the only factions that actually have reliable FTL comms are the Imperium for the most part, everyone else mostly figures shit out from Divine Revelation or couriers.

Even Astrotelepathy isn't that reliable, they just make up for it with sheer volume, meaning at least one message will usually get through in a comprehensible way.
 
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Afaik, the imperium is the only faction whose FTL comms are fleshed out.
With other factions it just seems to happen. Imo, a case of "they have it, but we don't care enough to figure out how it works"
 
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