Slight change to the plan

[] Plan preparing a live ship
-[] [repair bay] [Free] finish fixing the damage to the psy shields and use the remaining capability to swap ship manufactories for machine spirit manufactories
-[] Evacuate any non-chaos stations that will fail this turn to the Auric Burden
-[] Construction X 2
--[] 5 Machine Spirit Manufactory in the Auric Burden
--[] use last 100BP to start building a large automated medical facility in the Auric Burden
-[] Research
--[] Mechanized agriculture (150 RP)
--[] Large automated medical facility (25 RP)
--[] Abacus Manufacturing (100 RP) 25RP
-[] Anexa's and the Tech Gremlins Research
--[] Machine Sprit Production Improvements (75 RP)
--[] Improved Void Abacus (125 RP) 42RP
-[] Victan active action: aid in persuading the populations of the failing stations to evacuate to the Auric Burden
-[] Cia: troubleshoot any problems from the evacuation
 
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We can help prop up the shuttle, maybe leave some tech-priests, and then I'm for any plan that has us going to Caldereth to explore. Vita was stuck in Denva for a century building up before leaving. She deserves to at least finish this little round of exploring before having to go back to Denva to build up again.

As for any research to do, Alternative Shield Meanings is definitely up there. We need that for Yelling into the Warp, which we need for Warp Communication, which should be a big priority, both for us and Denva. That way next time we run into something like this, we can just leave a message for them rather than have to turn around. And Denva obviously to maintain any sort of multi-system presence.
 
Yep. See my edit, already copped to it.

The core metric remains the same though - how many people can we save given any set of actions. On Ascalon, the answer is "less than here". After here, anywhere but Denva it's "less than setting up Denva"

Thus, I advocate for 2-3 actions spent here setting up first response with our tech-priests, then going back to Denva to equip them to scout the system and relieve the stations before the failure rate outstrips the stopgap.

Angle has been doing the numbers on how long it would take to get a reasonable response to Vorthryn sent out. He said 3 turns, I trust that means 3 turns is a reasonable estimate. There will be variances based on the as-yet unknown "civ doing exponential industrial growth off-screen" mechanics, but I'm optimistic.
If the question was getting a useful response back out to Vorthryn, based on what we know now, I'd think we could do it in one turn, maybe 2 if we make sure to industrialize ourselves first and Denva doesn't contribute their own efforts beyond crewing it.

But getting Denva to send an intervention for one system over the course of 3 turns is not an impressive play or one that is at all mitigating the 'what about everyone else' issue. Which was what you appeared to be saying it did resolve. Which thing do you think you're solving in that time?
Hence why part of my idea is "give Denva void abacuses, and get cheap scouting ships ready to check everywhere at once". Screw gambling checking systems one at a time (literally gambling, neablis rolls for system generation), if there's easy interventions withering on the vine, we should get eyes on them.

Also, check out the actual rolls: Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest Mature - Sci-Fi

Vorthryn is objectively a really unlucky system. I ran the odds in a calculator, and there was about an 8% chance of getting rolls this shit or worse. There are 13 systems unexplored by vita, and that's without discounting the 4 minimum the space marines had to pass through - they'd have their own opinions on, say, an alien invasion killing people.

So how many systems as bad or worse than Vorthryn should we expect to find?
0.08 chance * 13 systems = 1.04

one.

Our expected number of systems this badly off is one.

Is that clear enough?
You're making a really wild jump in supposing that the dice roll total translates to the (inverse) degree of humanitarian crisis.

EDIT: I'd think it's that the dice roll translates more into 'what does this offer to us', and I'm not sure whether it's working by sum instead of die-by-die either. Basically, a "good" system could be very bad to live in, or have nobody living in it. And a "bad" system could be an agri-world that's just agri-worlding along peacefully and has no interesting artifacts or knowledge.
As for any research to do, Alternative Shield Meanings is definitely up there. We need that for Yelling into the Warp, which we need for Warp Communication, which should be a big priority, both for us and Denva. That way next time we run into something like this, we can just leave a message for them rather than have to turn around. And Denva obviously to maintain any sort of multi-system presence.
I've gotten an added interest in that tech because our void sensors are tied to our void shields - in some cases, we might want to build void sensors that are more likely to last and thus preserve our vision rather than break themselves fighting against threats, which would probably fall on Alternative Shield Meanings.
 
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You're making a really wild jump in supposing that the dice roll total translates to the (inverse) degree of humanitarian crisis.
I also fucked up my math and had to edit it twice, lol. This time I did it in excel though, so it should be better.

And by better I mean it went from "one system with rolls this bad" to "an 8.9% chance of finding even one system with rolls this bad".

And while the connection between degree of humanitarian crisis and system rolls is untested, there is clearly some connection between the state of the system and the rolls, and it doesn't take much for this to come off as probably the most in-crisis system absent outside forces in all of the subsector.

8.9% chance of a single other system with rolls this bad. You might not like it, but it's a better indicator than random guessing, no? That's not even accounting for the added filter of "can we do something about it".

So just stem the bleeding here, and then go back to Denva for a few turns so they can handle seeing if there's anything else that demands immediate attention so they can triage it.

And then also because we can use their manufacturing, we will be better equipped to go on our own adventures, and do the shiny research because we have discount pinatas waiting for us to build a lab before we can crack them open.
 
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I also fucked up my math and had to edit it twice, lol. This time I did it in excel though, so it should be better.

And by better I mean it went from "one system with rolls this bad" to "an 8.9% chance of finding even one system with rolls this bad".

And while the connection between degree of humanitarian crisis and system rolls is untested, there is clearly some connection between the state of the system and the rolls, and it doesn't take much for this to come off as probably the most in-crisis system absent outside forces in all of the subsector.

8.9% chance of a single other system with rolls this bad. You might not like it, but it's a better indicator than random guessing, no?

And the suggested action is the same. Stem the bleeding here, go back to denva to get scouting ships going.

Simple.
No, I actually think it's a worse indicator than random guessing. I stuck in my argument above, probably while you were writing:

I'd think it's that the dice roll translates more into 'what does this offer to us', and I'm not sure whether it's working by sum instead of die-by-die either. Basically, a "good" system could be very bad to live in, or have nobody living in it. And a "bad" system could be an agri-world that's just agri-worlding along peacefully and has no interesting artifacts or knowledge. Or this system, except with no stations.

In short, I believe that you're creating a completely false indicator and then using it as a justification.

("Good" system concepts: The remains of a forge world with survivors in much the same position as the ones here - there's no livable biosphere, and the artificial living spaces are breaking down. But instead of being in a moderately useful asteroid belt, they're sitting on a horde of the Mechanicus' more useful toys. Or an adamantium mining world in much the same state as Denva Primus - natives optional, humans who haven't all starved yet also optional and somewhat likely to be cannibal cultists.)
 
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No, I actually think it's a worse indicator than random guessing. I stuck in my argument above, apparently while you were writing:

I'd think it's that the dice roll translates more into 'what does this offer to us', and I'm not sure whether it's working by sum instead of die-by-die either. Basically, a "good" system could be very bad to live in, or have nobody living in it. And a "bad" system could be an agri-world that's just agri-worlding along peacefully and has no interesting artifacts or knowledge. Or this system, except with no stations.

In short, I believe that you're creating a completely false indicator and then using it as a justification.
No, I saw the edit. An agri-world agri-worlding would actually free up some of Denva's labor force to focus more on industry and research. It'd be a pretty sweet find, actually.

The thing about "having things we want" is that that... well, correlates with available wealth.

Just as squalor and suffering that can be easily solved with food aid inversely correlates with available wealth.

It'd take a pretty strong justification to say why "things useful to vita" won't inversely correlate to "humanitarian crises that can be solved without a lot of wealth or investment" enough for that 8.9% chance of a single other system with rolls this bad to matter, because if Vita would want it, so would anyone else and that would mean that "anyone else" would leave someone to keep it, which mostly precludes the current style of crisis.

And if they have things worth getting and people are still dying in masses, then their problems are probably a lot harder for us to mitigate than "throw some tech priests at it".
("Good" system concepts: The remains of a forge world with survivors in much the same position as the ones here - there's no livable biosphere, and the artificial living spaces are breaking down. But instead of being in a moderately useful asteroid belt, they're sitting on a horde of the Mechanicus' more useful toys. Or an adamantium mining world in much the same state as Denva Primus - natives optional, humans who haven't all starved yet also optional and somewhat likely to be cannibal cultists.)
Scenario 1 does not happen because the admech would pull their toys out, just like they did here and on Denva. If they can't, they destroy them or leave a detachment. It's SOP.

Scenario 2 is sad, but not easily solveable, nor would it cause mass death. Action economy to lives saved would still be higher where we are, and wildly higher on Denva where there are 12 other chances for something worse to be solved by them doing the triage for us.

EDIT:
Considering you already favor doing stopgap measures where we are, the only disagreement is whether or not to go to Denva to delegate the rest of the sub-sector's humanitarian efforts. And for that, the odds don't matter because they can hit more places than we can.

So, you know, sure. Claim that it's a stretch to say that poverty does not correlate to suffering and does not inversely correlate to "things Vita wants to have". Doesn't matter, and I need to get to work on other stuff.
 
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No, I saw the edit. An agri-world agri-worlding would actually free up some of Denva's labor force to focus more on industry and research. It'd be a pretty sweet find, actually.

The thing about "having things we want" is that that... well, correlates with available wealth.

Just as squalor and suffering that can be easily solved with food aid inversely correlates with available wealth.

It'd take a pretty strong justification to say why "things useful to vita" won't inversely coorelate to "humanitarian crises that can be solved without a lot of wealth or investment". If they have things worth getting, their problems are probably a lot harder than "throw some tech priests at it".
I have big doubts about interstellar food shipping being a good idea rather than Imperial Dumb (potentially with purposes for them, like control and making paperwork easier), but we'll have to see how the QM deals with that when it comes up.

This system would have the exact same humanitarian problems if the ship were a damaged Imperium warship. With adamantium armor and a nova cannon for us to look at, and a wrecked Thunderhawk containing the mummified remains of a Space Marine squad sitting in one of its hangar bays.

That'd be at least four separate valuable research samples for Vita. None of which are at all useful to the survivors.

(I'm a little frustrated with our having obtained zero research samples from our positive actions on the expedition so far. Our three Dark Eldar samples are probably pretty good loot actually, but we got them from our nat-1! There were other possibilities in Ascalon, but as it turned out we couldn't get the ones we saw without risking fights we didn't want.)
 
Scenario 2 is sad, but not easily solveable, nor would it cause mass death. Action economy to lives saved would still be higher where we are, and wildly higher on Denva where there are 12 other chances for something worse to be solved by them doing the triage for us.
If there's anybody still in such a situation, we could feed them very easily.

And yeah, I do claim "wealth" has no useful correlation to suffering in these stars, really. One huge reason with a few forks that, in my opinion, slam dunk the issue.

One is the Imperium. The Imperium structurally reroutes wealth to cause rather than alleviate suffering for the overwhelming majority of the population.

Another is also the Imperium, which intentionally makes people unable to use wealth, and wealth people can't use. A wrecked Imperial Titan would be arguably more valuable than a habitable planet - but it would probably lower, not raise, the standard of living of an inhabited planet it lay on. (With or without active Imperial government.) It might even cause an ongoing mass death event by poisoning the biosphere or something, that sounds pretty 40k.

A third is still the Imperium, but in a somewhat less condemnatory way. While I criticized interstellar food shipment, trade networks aren't a bad idea, and the Imperium had them. They're gone now, severing producers from consumers and making chunks of capital and natural resources alike far less useful, if not outright useless, to the people who possess them.

And a minor add is that what Vita gains value from isn't what people need to live or live well in general.
 
About that. This ship is too small.
We could use it to become a Ark Mechanicus equivalent wich are big supertech factory ships trough.
It just that craftworlds are well, mobile wrolds, shipyards and command of the fleet, we could make our own version of a gloriana dreadnought and it would still be small.
Fuck it, let's put all tech research just into scale for the next couple turns. We're taking Denva with us. We Homeworld now.

Also do know that creating dangerous turds specifically for Denva to fix and clear up on a regular basis is a massive burden both economically, but also socially. Do you really think the insane communist engineer cult will get along with anyone in Denva, like in any way? What about the bunch of equally crazy Imperial LARPers that there is no fucking way Denva would want near the controls of anything of significance? They can hypothetically be assimilated with their numbers, but decidedly not without issues. Immense friction will occur if we do this too often in the future and we also risk undermining our position, the goodwill we earned will not last forever, especially with mortal lifetimes and memories. So do keep in mind, that Denva is not a charity, nor are they our personal slaves, they need personal incentive.

Even moreso, iirc, we didn't even give 'em Abacuses so they have a systembound fleet, and we plan to effectively commandeer some of their production for a couple decades, on top of now leaving them this problem to fix afterward. All of that will spend all of our present goodwill. Well, if they haven't been wiped out due to some particularly bad luck by now, it's been like 20 years by now.
 
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1-5 stations doing per turn. Pretty basic math.

At best, 100 turns. At worst, 20.

1-5 per year would be worse, 20 at the high end, 4 at the low end.


Regardless, we should be able to get back fairly quickly, and the Ship is 100% the best way to stem the bleeding while that's happening.

We don't lose much by setting them up before we leave. Not much that isn't easily able to be recovered and recouped in the mean time. One turn, maybe two, then we move on. Keep at least 1 research per turn, and it doesn't even impact research much. And it gains us, or Denva, a new manufacturing center that is specialized to the purpose.

Overall, not a bad thing, and it gives Denva a direction to start expanding their polity. As long as we don't skip research, we're not wasting our time or our resources. This also gives us an idea on how to handle similar situations in the future, if we find them.

Practice and experience should streamline things a bit. Not to mention the boons we might earn from the Vorthrynites themselves in the future. Even if they're folded into Denva, I think we'd earn something for the act.

If nothing else, it'll get any humanitarian Techs we want out of the way so we don't need to get them later. Or argue about them. Or consider them in any capacity other than 'oh yeah, we have that'. Getting a baseline lets us focus on other things, since our 'basic' is better than the 'advanced' of most of the Imperium.


More… it's a step towards man-made technological Craftworlds. Which would be amazing to set up, and possibly have Hans and Eldar on at the same time.

I wonder how an Eldar would react to being unable to feel Slaanesh's pull on their souls, thanks to a specially tuned, regenerating Psychic Shield…?
 
@Prime 2.0 and @LightLan, what are your thoughts on this:

[]Plan: Fix the stuff and get smahter
-[]Order: Destroy the Chaos Stations
-[]Construction 2x:
--[]Build 5 MS Manufactories (250 BP output) on the ship
--[]100 BP of bots and urgent repairs
--[]leave behind 17 techpriest volunteers to manage the ship and run the repairs (backed by a detachment of ~4,000 bots)
-[]Research
--[] Machine Spirit Hallucinations (300 RP)

Put the breaks on the system's decline so it won't break, removes the obvious chaos, and gets us more RP for more research.

edit: quick post between DnD sessions
 
Last sentence just cuts off in the middle of itself.



The Bolded is two words stuck together because of a lack of a spacing between them.



We are in fact no longer in Ascalon.

As for the Tech-Priest issue I am all for getting volunteers to build up the ship over a longer period of time while we go back to Denva to get this experimental shipyard set up later.
Fixed, thanks.

It hasn't even done anything since we last poked it.
well:
Bongo Psychic Energy = 18/??? Represented as approximate damage potential.

A thought - the Auric must have been warp capable at some point no? It would take effort but we could claim it for our "we're totally a rogue trader" fleet, having a visually imperial vessel would actually help us there.
Nope. As far as you can tell it's been built for sublight only.

@Neablis In principal, can AIs's directly self-duplicate, or is construction of new AI's always going to be a matter of effectively having an AI kid that you need to raise?
The latter. No self-duplicating for you.

Also, do Omakes ever get rewards besides maybe introducing a new research or blueprint or character?
Omakes are a chance to influence the world. A good Omake can tilt the worldbuilding in a way that is favorable to Vita. But no mechanical rewards, no.


How much CP is the Repair Bay? Could we build one of our own repair bays on the ship for the Tech Priests to use?

Probably not, the implication was that it couldn't repair Imperial Tech, but could it slowly replace everything on the ship with our own version of it? That's a lot of BP in 'repair/restoration' that could be obtained for relatively little CP and ship space.
No, it's very specifically built to work with your tech only. But leaving behind manufactories and tech-priests is a budget version of that.

If I've understood this correctly, we should just throw X amount of generic BP at the ship to get result, without specifying what we are building. We can trust it to be allocated efficiently without us, participants of this quest, trying to micromanage where every single point of BP goes. EDIT: ...But on a closer look, the wording about manufactories makes me think that maybe this is not completely the case? @Neablis, is making manufactories on the ship different from giving it aid in other forms? I thought at first it was just "throw X amount of generic BP at the problem" kind of thing.
"Repair the ship to be livable" and "give it Manufactories" are separate buckets.

We got told all bot types have their uses, better to go with a mix of bots.
I'd prefer you make bots in units of 1000, just to keep accounting easier.

@Neablis How effective and how necessary is the Mechanized Agriculture tech, here? DO they need it? If they are having food shortages, how much would is cost for us to do anything about it?
Helpful but not necessary. They are having food shortages but they do have their own solutions. They're currently barely holding on and one fungal infection away from a famine, but that would be fixed with repairs (a few of the 100-bp breakpoints would address that). However, if you do mechanized agriculture you could install your own version that would produce more food of better quality with less risk.

@Neablis, can we do mixed squads of bots without raising the CP cost, at least if its for more narrative stuff like our tech-priest controlling them while away from under our control (so as to not add more mechanical complications)? Also, do we get the BP from manufactories retrofitted to our ship via repair bay on the same turn with a single construction action, or would we have to have more than one construction action to benefit from this? Or would it just be on the next turn?
No. Abstraction.

... you could use the repair bay to refit manufactories and then use them on the same turn with construction actions.

Though I can't find a more explicit quote on the subject, so we can double check. @Neablis, can the repair bay refit the contents of our modular slots, and thereby add new ground manufactories to our flagship?
Yes.

1-5 stations failing each year, out of a total of 100-ish, killing about ten thousand of people each. Neablis clarified the numbers, and running with the ones he gave shows that by the end of 20 years most of the 8 million people here will already be dead if there is no intervention.
1-5 stations failing every turn, so 5 years. It's not quite as urgent as you're saying. Ah, I see you have seen that.
 
By adding a mere 5RP to the design cost (and an unknown amount of BP cost, it's not listed) we can add psychic shields to this installation.
Given the recent and still existing chaos presence, that should be worthwhile.
After looking at the text more closely:
Psychic Shielding - (+4x base BP cost for tanks, small craft, +9x base BP cost for bots, +1x base RP to design blueprint) - Adds psychic shields to the object, dramatically increasing survivability. Can be applied to: Combat Bots, Vehicles, Small craft. Add it to defensive installations when you build them.
I think it might mean that we can just use normal psychic shielding rules. So max 20 HP of shielding for one installation, in increments of five HP, with the cost of the shielding being for the max amount of HP at 100 BP? Probably? Is that how this works, @Neablis?
 
One is the Imperium. The Imperium structurally reroutes wealth to cause rather than alleviate suffering for the overwhelming majority of the population.

Another is also the Imperium, which intentionally makes people unable to use wealth, and wealth people can't use. A wrecked Imperial Titan would be arguably more valuable than a habitable planet - but it would probably lower, not raise, the standard of living of an inhabited planet it lay on. (With or without active Imperial government.) It might even cause an ongoing mass death event by poisoning the biosphere or something, that sounds pretty 40k.

A third is still the Imperium, but in a somewhat less condemnatory way. While I criticized interstellar food shipment, trade networks aren't a bad idea, and the Imperium had them. They're gone now, severing producers from consumers and making chunks of capital and natural resources alike far less useful, if not outright useless, to the people who possess them.
Any problem that is caused by ongoing imperial misgovernance is not an easily solveable issue - the utilitarian metric is what actions can you do to get the best result, or for us, how can we achieve the highest velocity of saving lives saved and alleviating suffering.

It's not enough for suffering and death to be present. It has to be cost effective for us to solve relative to other opportunities to mitigate death and suffering, and as even as our most optimistic plans for ascalon showed, nevermind what actually happened, those are issues that can only be dealt with on a longer term scale because they can fight back, and we can't stay around to create a functioning government without, you know, staying around.

And then everyone else gets hit by a trolley. We brought techpriests with us, not diplomats or nation builders.

We can lay groundwork in passing, such as in my oft-repeated "diplomacy is not friendship" basing rights fait accompli plan, but for actually executing on the humanitarian concerns, that's going to be up to people we delegate to. And we can do that delegation, because most of these problems don't need an AI to solve if you're willing to take your time with it, and Denva expanding its territory and influence also expands its power, which expands its ability to do humanitarian aid.

Riches attract and retain people with power and guns. If we are dissatisfied with how they are handling a situation, we will probably have to fight them. They are not low hanging fruit, nor quick to deal with, and we're rapidly exhausting our ability to create detachments to handle situations in our absence just with this one system.

We have to go back to denva for a few turns for humanitarian at a scale worth caring about to be possible. I only disagree with angle on doing it as our very second action after blowing up the stations because this case is acute, we can stabilize it enough for it to wait for relief to arrive.
I agree on the second part of number 2 as it happens, though in general if it's not bolted down the retreating imperials will have tried to take it with them. It's very 40k, but it gets to be because 40k is big, and the subsector isn't. This is a corner case.

Number 3 is... well, kind of what we're witnessing in the system we're in. This is a mining and industrial hub. But it's the low end, which goes a long way to explaining why it was abandoned as completely as it was.

And ultimately, it's that abandonment that makes it so easy for us to just fix things. There is nobody who can reasonably stop us.
@Prime 2.0 and @LightLan, what are your thoughts on this:

[]Plan: Fix the stuff and get smahter
-[]Order: Destroy the Chaos Stations
-[]Construction 2x:
--[]Build 5 MS Manufactories (250 BP output) on the ship
--[]100 BP of bots and urgent repairs
--[]leave behind 17 techpriest volunteers to manage the ship and run the repairs (backed by a detachment of ~4,000 bots)
-[]Research
--[] Machine Spirit Hallucinations (300 RP)

Put the breaks on the system's decline so it won't break, removes the obvious chaos, and gets us more RP for more research.

edit: quick post between DnD sessions
We might be able to shave off a construction action - depends on how much more population the ship can handle right now, and how much extra population we can add for a given breakpoint of repairs, versus rate of necessary population influx. Would let us do 2 MS manufactories + medbay and urgent repairs with slace, or 2 MS manufactories with a third almost complete for the techpriests to finish, and then they make the medbay themselves.

Even if the math comes back to say humanitarian operation can manage it on that budget though, I'd want to check in on whether or not it'd cause discontent with the detachment.

MS Hallucinations is... tempting, but the research text says it's not by a "huge" amount. I'm not sure this is the right time, compared to, say, having void abacus manufacturing ready to go right the fuck now AND being in Denva by the end of the turn to give it to them so relief ships can start being made immediately.

Could probably get it the turn after, though.
Omakes are a chance to influence the world. A good Omake can tilt the worldbuilding in a way that is favorable to Vita. But no mechanical rewards, no.
I want to talk about this later actually, because one of the ways a quest provides content is making specific incentives for specific kinds of work - and with the main update schedule slowing down, that's going to be more important for Vox.

I've mentioned it before, but there's lots of room for people to write their own shenanigans about what happens among the crew - and if it's, say, techpriests debating different well detailed potential designs for a potential research (or a tolkein-esque attempt at making the in-universe document detailing a potential design), you could take 1 or 2 RP off of that tech as a reward if you, the QM, liked it. Anexa's passive in hyperminiature, basically.

And if you didn't like it, then those techpriests were just being ineffectual. Lower c crew does as lower c crew does.

And since it's rando techpriests doing it, you'd be under zero obligation to actually make the final tech work that way. As edison once said - all the failed prototypes mattered, because he had to find all the ways to do it wrong before he found the way to do it right.

That's just one example. But even very, very tiny mechanical bonuses can get excellent creative work flowing for your thread.
 
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Updated plan:

[] Plan: The Disciples of the Cogitare Exploratium
-[][FREE] Spark of the Ancients Repair Bay: 1 shuttle bay / shuttles dismantled (Installation 100 BP - 2 slots freed) - 2 Machine Spirit Manufactories added (360 BP) (1 MS Manufactory = 1 slot). Rest goes to repairing the Bongo Oubliette (640 BP - 128 points of repairs) (443/540 HP -> 540/540 HP).
-[] Command: Blow up any Chaos-tainted stations you find and detect.
-[] Construction (450 VBP / 500 LC): 450 BP the ship, of which 360 BP to 3x Machine Spirit Manufactory (120 BP, 20 CP), 1x Small automated medical facility (50 BP, 50 CP), 40 BP plus any additional BP from MSPI to immediate aid/bribes on the ship. The cluster of installations shall be the HQ for Cogitate Exploratium base of operations.
--[] Write-in: Send 22 members of the Cogitare Exploratium to be left on the ship temporarily, with the gift of 12 personal void shields from the bodyguard bots that saw battle against Chaos, removed from the bots and crafted into their augmented bodies or given as a talisman to the most militant members, as their preference. And 1000 Heavy Machine-spirit Infantry Bots (20 CP). Their primary goal is to stabilize the ship and ease the suffering of its population, then the stations and their populations (or prepare the ship to hold evacuations most likely), while also helping by arming people to stomp out Chaos cults where they appear, if feasible. Aim with the repairs to convert the ship to hold people instead of ore. Tell the tech-priests to primarily ally themselves with the Ductsworn. They are free to recruit initiates to the Cogitare Exploratium after making sure of their trustworthiness to expand their numbers, but are to keep the truth about Vita's true nature a secret for now. They also encouraged to freely share basic uplift primers and teaching and augmenting people they don't directly recruit (especially to control the new installations they will be making), if they think it will help the situation. Only restricted cybernetic for non-Cogitare initiate is the Human Simulation brain-implant.
--[] Cogitare starting CP: 130/220
-[] Research (317 RP)
--[] Psychic tripwires (50 RP)
--[] Machine Sprit Production Improvements (75 RP)
---[] Anexa assist
--[] Mechanized agriculture (150 RP)
--[] Blueprint: 25 RP - Large automated medical facility (500 BP, 50 CP)
--[] Blueprint: 5 RP - Anti-personnel Bunker (20 BP, 2 CP)
--[] Basic Active Stealth (34/75 RP) -> (46/75 RP)
-[] Explore: Calderath
 
Any problem that is caused by ongoing imperial misgovernance is not an easily solveable issue - the utilitarian metric is what actions can you do to get the best result, or for us, how can we achieve the highest velocity of saving lives saved and alleviating suffering.

It's not enough for suffering and death to be present. It has to be cost effective for us to solve relative to other opportunities to mitigate death and suffering, and as even as our most optimistic plans for ascalon showed, nevermind what actually happened, those are issues that can only be dealt with on a longer term scale because they can fight back, and we can't stay around to create a functioning government without, you know, staying around.

And then everyone else gets hit by a trolley. We brought techpriests with us, not diplomats or nation builders.

We can lay groundwork in passing, such as in my oft-repeated "diplomacy is not friendship" basing rights fait accompli plan, but for actually executing on the humanitarian concerns, that's going to be up to people we delegate to. And we can do that delegation, because most of these problems don't need an AI to solve if you're willing to take your time with it, and Denva expanding its territory and influence also expands its power, which expands its ability to do humanitarian aid.

Riches attract and retain people with power and guns. If we are dissatisfied with how they are handling a situation, we will probably have to fight them. They are not low hanging fruit, nor quick to deal with, and we're rapidly exhausting our ability to create detachments to handle situations in our absence just with this one system.

We have to go back to denva for a few turns for humanitarian at a scale worth caring about to be possible. I only disagree with angle on doing it as our very second action after blowing up the stations because this case is acute, we can stabilize it enough for it to wait for relief to arrive.
I agree on the second part of number 2 as it happens, though in general if it's not bolted down the retreating imperials will have tried to take it with them. It's very 40k, but it gets to be because 40k is big, and the subsector isn't. This is a corner case.

Number 3 is... well, kind of what we're witnessing in the system we're in. This is a mining and industrial hub. But it's the low end, which goes a long way to explaining why it was abandoned as completely as it was.

And ultimately, it's that abandonment that makes it so easy for us to just fix things. There is nobody who can reasonably stop us.
Ongoing imperial misgovernance is only really one of the three points, though. Probably the least important one in many respects, because what we want frequently isn't imperial productive capital, it's stuff that the imperium regards as ruins and relics.

Not every local authority will necessarily be harder to knock over than the ones here, even if they're sitting on something more valuable to us. And since the Imperial pull-out, people with power and guns are mostly incapable of space-faring in the sector, so they're unable to concentrate on points of special interest to us. In some cases, they might also be unable to survive on those points.

Consider Denva Primus! Certainly a valuable location for us, totally abandoned. Or Klyssar's Nest, which was a literal treasurehouse and had zero living defenders. (In other circumstances we might have had to fight through the adMech expedition as well, but that wouldn't have made it much harder to take.)


I don't think it would have necessarily taken a huge amount of time for us to put Ascalon Primus under a better order because nationbuilding is too hard. (That would have limited how much better we could get it on our visit - we'd probably realistically need to kingmake somebody local in the end.) It would have taken us a huge amount of time because we don't currently own the right assets to overpower the existing authorities or install major capital projects. Which is a valid constraint, of course, but not one that we intend to preserve indefinitely.



Stepping back a little - would it be accurate to say that you really just want to go back to Denva, full stop, and are only in favor of not being there immediately due to feeling we must do work here?

Because while we've been arguing about the justification for must do work here, our actual difference is way wider considering I want to explore 1-2 more systems.
 
Personally I would like to explore Caldereth before going back to Denva so that we can fill them in on what's going on in this part of the subsector.

Helpful but not necessary. They are having food shortages but they do have their own solutions. They're currently barely holding on and one fungal infection away from a famine, but that would be fixed with repairs (a few of the 100-bp breakpoints would address that). However, if you do mechanized agriculture you could install your own version that would produce more food of better quality with less risk.
Yeah this makes me want to do mechanized agriculture just to reduce the risks beyond what fixing their current food production would do.

Yet another revision taking what Neablis said about the difference between building manufactories and actually fixing things into account.

[] Plan preparing a live ship
-[] [repair bay] [Free] finish fixing the damage to the psy shields and use the remaining capability to swap ship manufactories for machine spirit manufactories
-[] Construction X 3
--[] 5 Machine Spirit Manufactory in the Auric Burden
--[] 300BP to be spent repairing the Auric Burden
--[] use last 150BP to start building a large automated medical facility in the Auric Burden
-[] Research
--[] Mechanized agriculture (150 RP)
--[] Large automated medical facility (25 RP)
--[] Abacus Manufacturing (100 RP) 25RP
-[] Anexa's and the Tech Gremlins Research
--[] Machine Sprit Production Improvements (75 RP)
--[] Improved Void Abacus (125 RP) 42RP
-[] Victan passive action: Counterespionage & Alliance-building
-[] Cia Active Psyker improvement
 
Updated plan:

[] Plan: The Disciples of the Cogitare Exploratium
-[][FREE] Spark of the Ancients Repair Bay: 1 shuttle bay / shuttles dismantled (Installation 100 BP - 2 slots freed) - 2 Machine Spirit Manufactories added (360 BP) (1 MS Manufactory = 1 slot). Rest goes to repairing the Bongo Oubliette (640 BP - 128 points of repairs) (443/540 HP -> 540/540 HP).
-[] Command: Blow up any Chaos-tainted stations you find and detect.
-[] Construction (450 VBP / 500 LC): 450 BP the ship, of which 360 BP to 3x Machine Spirit Manufactory (120 BP, 20 CP), 1x Small automated medical facility (50 BP, 50 CP), 40 BP plus any additional BP from MSPI to immediate aid/bribes on the ship. The cluster of installations shall be the HQ for Cogitate Exploratium base of operations.
--[] Write-in: Send 22 members of the Cogitare Exploratium to be left on the ship temporarily, with the gift of 12 personal void shields from the bodyguard bots that saw battle against Chaos, removed from the bots and crafted into their augmented bodies or given as a talisman to the most militant members, as their preference. And 1000 Heavy Machine-spirit Infantry Bots (20 CP). Their primary goal is to stabilize the ship and ease the suffering of its population, then the stations and their populations (or prepare the ship to hold evacuations most likely), while also helping by arming people to stomp out Chaos cults where they appear, if feasible. Aim with the repairs to convert the ship to hold people instead of ore. Tell the tech-priests to primarily ally themselves with the Ductsworn. They are free to recruit initiates to the Cogitare Exploratium after making sure of their trustworthiness to expand their numbers, but are to keep the truth about Vita's true nature a secret for now. They also encouraged to freely share basic uplift primers and teaching and augmenting people they don't directly recruit (especially to control the new installations they will be making), if they think it will help the situation. Only restricted cybernetic for non-Cogitare initiate is the Human Simulation brain-implant.
--[] Cogitare starting CP: 130/220
-[] Research (317 RP)
--[] Psychic tripwires (50 RP)
--[] Machine Sprit Production Improvements (75 RP)
---[] Anexa assist
--[] Mechanized agriculture (150 RP)
--[] Blueprint: 25 RP - Large automated medical facility (500 BP, 50 CP)
--[] Blueprint: 5 RP - Anti-personnel Bunker (20 BP, 2 CP)
--[] Basic Active Stealth (34/75 RP) -> (46/75 RP)
-[] Explore: Calderath
Unless you expect them to not have the CP, I'd suggest giving them a thousand of our light bots as well? Even with them potentially building bunkers shortly, they're outnumbered quite heavily. (They still would be, but a factor of 2 is a factor of 2!)

I don't love leaving the Cogitare responsible for surviving ship politics until we get back without having diplomatically adjusted things, but actions are very tight.

I do worry that they won't have the capacity to use things like the medical facility or, potentially, MechAg - they've only got 150 BP plus whatever MSPI gives, and they're presumably not going to be able to run that 4x per turn like Vita can.
 
Stepping back a little - would it be accurate to say that you really just want to go back to Denva, full stop, and are only in favor of not being there immediately due to feeling we must do work here?

Because while we've been arguing about the justification for must do work here, our actual difference is way wider considering I want to explore 1-2 more systems.
I mean, denva appeals to me, I was in favor of switching to a breadth-first exploration from denva when we were deciding where to go next from Ascalon, but I was actually in favor of completing the 3 system circuit since the previous update. It was discussion and analysis and math that made me go "wait, that might not work at all for addressing this issue".

I really do actually think that going back is the best way to get the humanitarian concerns out of the way, for here and the rest of zantris. That is my chief concern, and the issue I'm most invested in right now.

But, as always, I advocate for this specific solution because it makes progress on a lot of our problems at once, and sets us up for doing more of the things we find fun - such as via the scouting ships telling us about every adventure hook we can choose to zoom off to, with a much cheaper research docket thanks to immaterium understandings and the DEldar reverse engineering getting done using denvan BP, and our ship being fully refit with better cramming to put more stuff in it, if not having some tenders come along with us outright so we can do more manufacturing in-situ.

I have a lot of experience spinning plates, so I'm always at least trying to optimize my planning to keep our irons in the fire, risks hedged, and goals pursued. With most of our problems right now being due to BP and labor shortages, this time that just happens to mean going to Denva, where we keep the lion's share of both.

Not enough industry to do the repairs, not enough people to delegate the operation to - and I'd like to not go through this rough ride a second time, so I want Denva to see for itself what needs triaging in the rest of Zantris, which is entirely reasonable if we just design a ship made for scouting and get a bunch made.

And having done that, we will have no trouble making up for lost time at our layover in The Planet That We Want To Stop Being At Forever Oh God Oh Fuck.
 
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Fuck it I don't think we should leave priests here I think we should just leg it to denva give them warp travel, research and build some Foundry factory ships come back and then start working on stuff while Denva gets a fleet together it'd be allot faster and more effective use of our actions.


Foundry Factory Ship (15,625 BP), Heavy Cruiser, 100 RP, 300 CP, Hull 6000 BP, 6000x1200 meters, Engines: 3 gravities for 400 BP, Shields: medium for 400, Armor: medium for 400, Warp Drive (600 BP), Void Abacus (600 BP), Psychic Shielding (240) for (1200 BP), Troop compartment (25 BP), Manufactory (5000 BP), Repair Bay (400 BP), 2x Light Lances (200 BP), 2x Shuttles (200 BP, 100 CP, 1000 Lift Capacity), 4x Point Defense (200 BP)
 
Do we have a prior statement on whether FTL comms is by itself enough to control things we leave in other star systems? If so, we move towards that and don't spend too much effort here until that's available.
 
Do we have a prior statement on whether FTL comms is by itself enough to control things we leave in other star systems? If so, we move towards that and don't spend too much effort here until that's available.
We have prior statement that that capability is in the FTL comms tree, in the form of one of the starter payloads that wasn't picked, but we don't know whether the first FTL comms tech (which is a tech behind 525 RP of currently available techs) will allow that.

The first FTL comms tech probably would at least let us get regular updates from detachments? But again, that sticker price.
 
The first FTL comms tech probably would at least let us get regular updates from detachments? But again, that sticker price.

Honestly that would probably still be better than a lot of places with only Astropaths, I would imagine that even our first tier would be more consistent than them. And while it is a big sticker price, I think its one of our most important concrete goals to work towards along with Navigators. With proper Warp comms and some automation, we could keep construction orders going for things while exploring.
 
So, I've been stewing on this, and I think I know what we need.

@Neablis , could you answer the following?
  1. How much spare capacity for population does the ship have right now.
  2. How much capacity is added for each breakpoint of 100 BP (I assume this is just going to be a linear scale for simplicity? If so, we can derive that from the answer to Q1 and the "5000 BP achieves housing for everyone")
  3. how can we determine BP/Turn in repairs from a given input of techpriests and manufactories? Or whatever else affects it
I ask, because if we have the answers to that?

Spare Capacity + (Capacity added/turn - Expected Capacity used up/turn) * turns = 0

Capacity Added/turn = capacity/100bp in repairs * BP in repairs/Turn

BP in repairs/turn
= functionQ3(techpriests, manufactories)

10,000 people ~<= Expected Capacity Used Up/turn ~<= 50,000 people

Then if someone solves this system of equations, they now have a formula for how much time any given investment in manufacturing and techpriests assigned to factories/repair will buy.

Which is to say, a big part of our conundrum will be reduced to three steps:
  1. Choose your timeline for getting relief into the system
  2. Make an investment that pays for that timeline
  3. Get relief into the system on time.
(set expected capacity used up/turn according to your appetite for risk, basically - you can do more math to determine a "nigh zero" risk route that takes advantage of how much starting spare capacity we have, but I'll leave that for later.)
 
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