I'd be inclined to try to push the build toward four destroyers at around 1450 BP each instead. Should be able to fit in more stuff that way, in principle. Probably could start from the Veles Mk II proposal? I can take a swing at it and see what it ends up looking like.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
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With 3 tiny system monitors we're already being hit with not being in enough places at one time, so I think 5 ships is still preferable.
We have 2, don't we? And we're being hit with all our assets being in the same place. We could have the same problem with a dozen cruisers...
If we had five destroyers and split them up, we'd have at least one place with at most one destroyer (between the gas giant, the homeworld, and the nest). Four has the same consequence there. But a 1-2 destroyer picket is stronger than it would be, and a 4-ship fleet in being is (hopefully) stronger than the 5-ship fleet in being. If the design works out.
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Hm - I went back and checked, and must have been remembering a plan draft where we made 3 monitors to replaced the 2 destroyed ones or something. You're correct, we just have two.
That said, I think the gas giant would be a good place for the odd destroyer out, provided the gas station's defenses are brought back online. Figuring out what capabilities we can expect in a 5-vs-4 design/build plan I'll leave to others like Nightlord, because I really haven't dug into those mechanics much at all. Seems like a good conversation to have, though.
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Angle
Release Candidate Enby
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...Hmm. How old is the average eldar? Is there a decent chance of us getting one that actually remembers the stellar federation?
I suppose most eldar wouldn't have interacted with it much in the days of the dominion. And the few who did probably aren't out here. Too bad.
I suppose most eldar wouldn't have interacted with it much in the days of the dominion. And the few who did probably aren't out here. Too bad.
Here's my variation on the building program:
[] Bigger Crash Research and Build
-[] 50 RP Research the Candle (below)
--[] Candle (1450 void BP, 1 ship construction slot) Destroyer, Hull 450 BP 1600x350 meters. 8 gravities of acceleration. Medium armor, Medium Shields. Living Space, Psychic Shields (100 BP) 2 Light Macrocannon batteries, 2 light lance battery. High-maneuverability thrusters.
-[] Build 4 Candle (1450 * 4 = 5800 BP)
Compared to 5x Veles, it has:
+ Trivially more total hull points (1800 instead of 1750)
+ Medium instead of light shields
+ Significantly more psychic shields in bigger stacks (80 vs 50 hp total)
+ Similarly more lances (8 vs 5)
- Noticeably fewer macrocannons (8 vs 10)
- 4 instead of 5 hulls, so less dispersable.
(Not attached to the name, I just didn't want to swipe a name simultaneously being used for a competing proposal.)
I think we should blitz for the gas giant, destroyers out ahead and ready to die for the cause, to minimize the damage. Unless we think the intruder will abduct the engineers and we might be able to save them by capturing the intruder in turn? (And, yes, of course we should also try to talk.) EDIT: And also advise the engineers to bring the defenses up, because that seems mostly upside.
[] Bigger Crash Research and Build
-[] 50 RP Research the Candle (below)
--[] Candle (1450 void BP, 1 ship construction slot) Destroyer, Hull 450 BP 1600x350 meters. 8 gravities of acceleration. Medium armor, Medium Shields. Living Space, Psychic Shields (100 BP) 2 Light Macrocannon batteries, 2 light lance battery. High-maneuverability thrusters.
-[] Build 4 Candle (1450 * 4 = 5800 BP)
Compared to 5x Veles, it has:
+ Trivially more total hull points (1800 instead of 1750)
+ Medium instead of light shields
+ Significantly more psychic shields in bigger stacks (80 vs 50 hp total)
+ Similarly more lances (8 vs 5)
- Noticeably fewer macrocannons (8 vs 10)
- 4 instead of 5 hulls, so less dispersable.
(Not attached to the name, I just didn't want to swipe a name simultaneously being used for a competing proposal.)
I think we should blitz for the gas giant, destroyers out ahead and ready to die for the cause, to minimize the damage. Unless we think the intruder will abduct the engineers and we might be able to save them by capturing the intruder in turn? (And, yes, of course we should also try to talk.) EDIT: And also advise the engineers to bring the defenses up, because that seems mostly upside.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The only known Space Elf who remembers the Dominion era is Eldrad, and he's explicitly a massive outlier.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
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The main question with the destroyers is 'should we worry about them sneaking around behind us and going after Denva' or the like. I don't think so? But it would be really embarrassing to be wrojg on this, so we should think it out carefully...
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IMO, it's either that or cut off paths to denva and the nest while getting the engineers to activate the station's defenses:
...what's the DCs on that, @Neablis ? Any modifiers for time bought?
Off-hand it sounds like a "more likely than not to be ineffective", from how you talk about it, but when there's questions of "can we throw monitors into the breach to give those engies a better chance of success" the details matter to planning.
Personally I'm leaning towards just gunning for the station, but knowing what our options are for a higher risk option where we lean on the station coming online - or faking it till the engineers on board make it, claiming the defenses are already online as part of our initial warning/hail is an option - to cover some of the hard power we need in this situation would be good.
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I think we shouldn't not worry. But I also think the value add of the destroyers blitzing towards the gas giant at nearly three times our flagship's acceleration is going to be bigger than having them try to cover Denva Secundus.
I think we should ask the engineers to activate the defenses in addition, but should assume that even if they succeed that buys them time rather than negating the threat. (Editing above accordingly.)
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Hrm. Yeah, are we able to feed them a targeting solution if we're not close up? Or at all, frankly. What's Vita's take on the station's ability to try fighting what she's tracking, @Neablis ?
If we can't rely on the station to shoot despite the eldar ship's stealth, the rush to bring it online might be more a liability than having it operational would be an asset. The raiders might well be prepared for the fully operational version in the first place.
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Actually- blitz the destroyers at the station, and bring the cruiser around to pin them against the planet. If they fight the destroyers and win they'd get pinned by the cruiser, but if they run from the destroyers then they'd also escape the cruiser.
With the destroyers going full burn, they'll get there pretty quick, so this should be the fastest way to drive them off. It is also leaving an obvious escape as long as they don't engage.
With the destroyers going full burn, they'll get there pretty quick, so this should be the fastest way to drive them off. It is also leaving an obvious escape as long as they don't engage.
Unless they destroy the destroyers while barely noticing which they might if 'smaller than the Spark' means one category smaller.
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Tech Marine: ...But I like doing maintenance on the machines.
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Then we'll know that they can actually threaten us and act more cautiously. It's valuable information in that case.
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Personally, I'm hoping we can work Vita up to positron lances At some point
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I want to put a design up but the problem is I don't think destroyers should diversify their weapon load outs they're just too small for it on the other hand Denva will only be able to build a few of them a turn so they need to brawl hmmmm I'll think about until I get to my comp.
I'm not sure what to vote but I'm definitely sure we should NOT tell the eldar we're from the federation. Sure they can figure it out if they stuck around a while but no need to tempt fate.
İf these are Dark Eldar and the word of there being a person/ship from before slannesh around here with relatively little to defend it self reaches Commorragh it would be basically apocalyptic for our survival chances. And some Dark Eldar can "live" to tell the tale after getting "killed" to make it more complicated.
Now I know this is a edge case with it requiring them being dark eldar and have their words believed back in Commorragh if they even can get back there but we did pick a totally fucked up neighbourhood it's totally possible. And anyways the quest hasn't been as paranoid as it should be so I'll play the part.
İf these are Dark Eldar and the word of there being a person/ship from before slannesh around here with relatively little to defend it self reaches Commorragh it would be basically apocalyptic for our survival chances. And some Dark Eldar can "live" to tell the tale after getting "killed" to make it more complicated.
Now I know this is a edge case with it requiring them being dark eldar and have their words believed back in Commorragh if they even can get back there but we did pick a totally fucked up neighbourhood it's totally possible. And anyways the quest hasn't been as paranoid as it should be so I'll play the part.
While I think the emergency destroyers are important, note they're not meant to be Denva's navy for keeps, they're meant to give Denva enough of a navy to survive a turn or two while they get to work on their own designs.
They could pretty reasonably build themselves a full-up light cruiser next turn, I think? Depending on what their economic system is like it could maybe take two. But they also could get hit by something during the next turn, before they have time to get anything out of the yard. That's what the crash build is trying to mitigate.
If they are dark eldar they will know and there isn't anything we can do about it, there is no world in which Dark Eldar set foot on a human installation and do not take slaves, that is reflexive to them and all the humans on that station know, if they are not dark eldar telling t hem might instead allow a diplomacy roll where none could otherwise be made
True they would definitely take slaves but it's not guaranteed they would bother with "intelligence gathering" or simply skip ahead to torture for tortures sake and "check out my new cool flesh fountain! Made out of the "best and brightest" to ensure they actually understand in detail how their suffering works thus enhancing it"
They found a Grand Cruiser in the middle of the galactic sticks. The Dark Eldar are evil not stupid, they would get what information they can.
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If they do start taking people then they get shot down corsairs would only take people to sell them to Dark Eldar and craftworlders would use them for some sorta frame job.
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Aineko good news while I was on the train I did some math your ship thanks to it's BP and efficient weapons has 90BP of space so again thanks to efficient weapons you've got the room for one more light macro or las or adding a fighter bay it could also contain 2 point defence or missiles.