Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest

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Alright so unless something catastrophic happens here's my research wish list:

Machine Spirit Design discounts to designing blueprints, ship cram and is confirmed from Neablis to be on the route to more RP.

Medical school get that shit done now nuff said.

Large-scale Void Manufacturing we're going to be sourceing most of our BP from ship based manufactories getting more out of them is just saving us time and building.

Streamlined ship design anouther supporting designing because the earlier we get it the earlier It pays off.

While we're on the move I want to focus on supporting techs that will be easier to refit and make future actions cheeper again assuming everything goes smoothly we should get all this reasearch done in three turns.
 
LightLan said:
I made that mistake too.
I have been told that our ship uses ground-based manufactoring rules due to our wayfarer trait...
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Yeah not talking about our ship at this point the sooner we build a manufacturing purposesed ship the better because our ship's manufacturing is just garbage due to all the other stuff we need the module space for.

Right now Foundry Factory Ship (15,625 BP) beats the pants off our ship's BP cap with large scale void Fabricator Factory Ship (5,600 bp) will beat our ship's BP too.
 
Hm, we'll need to do this one, or we'll be limited to one ship while exploring:
Neablis said:
-[] Abacus Manufacturing (100 RP) You understand all of the physical parts of an abacus. Now you need to figure out all of the manufacturing techniques needed to actually put one together. (Unlocks the void abacus ship equipment)
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I also doubt we'll get that many BP easily before returning, unless we choose to build up at one of the points?

other Research I'd like to do while exploring:
Neablis said:
-[] Efficient Equipment Distribution (100 RP) Let's see if you can apply the benefits from weapon packing to equipment (Equipment costs count as 0.9x for ship capacity packing.)

-[] Extremely Efficient Weapon Distribution (200 RP) You did a good job already in packing more weapons into less space. But you think you see ways to make it even better (Weapons cost at 0.75 for ship capacity packing)
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This will allow us to pack more of everything in our ship refitting, including more manufactories which just took a hit due to making space for the scrapcode-cancer. At least the first one, second if the trip keeps getting longer and longer.

Neablis said:
-[] Personal-sized Psychic shielding (100 RP) You were able to break your psychic shielding down into components to rescale it, but that gets you down to a size measured in tens of meters. If you want to make another one that's even smaller, then you're going to have to break it down into even smaller pieces and build something back up again. But doing that would let you start weaving the shielding into armor or individual bots. (Allows you to outfit individuals with psychic shielding, though it may be less powerful than what you can build into larger structures. Unlocks additional technology for further miniaturization to put it into totems or implants.)
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More personal chaos protection for our crew, including on excursions.
Neablis said:
-[] Demonology (250 RP) Demons. They can be summoned, bound and banished. Preferably in that order. How? That knowledge could be powerful... and dangerous. (Allows you to do basic demonology to summon/bind/banish demons. Unlocks further technology around all of that, including potential better protection from demons.) Price will triple without the Scrapcode generator to experiment on.
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Get this done so we can get rid of the ticking time-bomb. Only research with Anexa once she got some personal psychic shielding.

Neablis said:
-[] Superconductive Shenanigans (100 RP) Room-temperature superconductors are a thing. But only kind of, and they still need to be highly pressurized to be stable. You know some people cracked this problem, but they didn't publish on it, which was annoying. But you think you might have an idea how they did it. Figuring it out would be great for manufacturing, and drop costs across the board. (A flat production boost of 5-15% depending on rolls).
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Cheaper manufactoring with relatively cheap RP-cost? Yes!
 
dgr11897 said:
I get the vibe that we may have just invented a defense against scrapcode which doesn't even need the physical equipment of the shields, or at least a reduced amount, or if not, then the shielding is probably practically immune to scrapcode.
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Bongo is in big trouble,we have specced against scrapcode to the point only brute force can defeat our shields

And bongo aint the strongest fella
 
LightLan said:
I made that mistake too.
I have been told that our ship uses ground-based manufactoring rules due to our wayfarer trait...
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I know it's supposed to be a trait feature and probably balancing + I'm currently in a haze of sleep-deprivation, food coma and bad ideas so unfiltered dogwater takes incoming, but it feels really underwhelming to spend so much on our flagship and spend so many slots on the manufactories only to have its BP output be matched by a destroyer.

At that point, we might actually be better off just gutting the manufactories and figuring out a way to carry a factory ship inside our flagship whenever we jump into the Warp.

Currently, our flagship has 19 slots total, 10 of those are being used by Manufactoried and they all generate 50bp each, totalling 500.

If we weren't using the ground manufactory model for our flagship (and assuming we researched manufacturing efficiency for the 1/5th of total ship cost), we would be producing 6730BP per turn. over a tenfold increase to our current output.

As it is right now, we wouldn't even be able build a cruiser on a reasonable timescale if we were down to 500BP again unless we find an empty system and enough time to restart our industry - no doubt leaving a trail of mothballed factories behind us for any tech-priests wanting their own mini forge-world.

This might be an unpopular take and a bit of a harsh question, but how is it that Vita is able to put the Manufactories in just fine with any ship that isn't the Spark of the Ancients, but our flagship is so horrendously inefficient to the point that its industrial output can be matched (or even surpassed) by a ship thousands of metres smaller than it? Am I missing something?
 
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meianmaru said:
Our flagship uses ground manufacturing rules, due to how Wayfarer buffs our flagship. And our flagship's manufactories too do currently require a construction action or I-OCM operators to produce anything, like every single manufactory type we have. If we want automation anywhere, ground or void manufacturing, we have to go first climb one (or multiple) automation tech tree(s).

Also, even if we get to where we have that kind of automation that it does not require a construction action from us, we would still have to specificy what we want them to produce every single turn.

Well, unless we build a specific automated manufactory, that is early in the machine spirit automation tree, that can make one thing. It will keep making it until told to shut down or it runs out of resources. But at least initially would have to still be networked to Vita locally to work. And would still require CP until/if we research that away. So it is actually less desirable than one where we can just switch it freely between what we want. Here is the description for it:
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We might be able to get it to do the "build blanks" thing? Or that might need another tech.
LightLan said:
I made that mistake too.
I have been told that our ship uses ground-based manufactoring rules due to our wayfarer trait...
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Click to shrink...
I think what was meant was "for building other ships that do manufacturing" (only our flagship uses ground manufactories).

I think we should look into researching Immaterium Understanding. Guaranteed level for Anexa, probably other goodies.

Now, a list of all 50 RP research (as of turn 21, per the Informational post):
Ship Design
Medium Defense Platforms
General Design
Ground Manufactory Efficiency
Mothballing
Stealth
Basic Ground Force Stealth
Improved Passive Stealth
Robotics
improved Armor Articulation
Physics
Miniaturized Antigrav
Biology
Servitorization
Maube there's a point to med school
Cybernetics
Combat Neural Implants

This adds up to 470 RP. 420 if we ignore Servitorization. Now some of these are more useful than others, but I think we at least ought to finish Med School and get Combat Implants, GME, Improved Passive Stealth, and Medium Defense Platforms. Getting all the non-servo ones in one turn might be better, though.
 
For handling chaos we need:

>monitoring
>tracking
>defensive measures
>offensive measures
>stealth/diversion

And each one needs a passive (cheap to use and produce,wide effect,able to stay working almost non stop etc) and active (strong,focused,high power but also needs attention/focus,cant be active 24/7 and may be more expensive to make/use)

Monitoring is simple, way to check if things are going well,the personality checks for AI and the counter memetics implants,as well empathy sensors and psyker (and navigator) genetics can help here

Tracking is for following trace of warp presences,empathy sensors are a must here,navigator and psyker genes may help here as well,maybe even faith

Defensive measures: ways to block or mitigate warp effects,we made great progress with the psy shields,machine spirits also help here and finally we got a faith tech tree to aid here

Offensive measures: ways to actively harm/counter warp agression hurt them back, faith tree,scrapcode research and demonology

Stealth/diversion: hide or avoid being tracked/monitored by others,here your guess is good as mine


Now that we got the basic defensive measures done,we should gradually climb and upgrade untill we get regenerating psy shields (chaos resistant machine spirit combined with psy shields,maybe add the gellar field sidegraded to cushion damage further)

Then work on monitoring and tracking
(Counter memetic implants and personality check for AI)
 
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LightLan said:
This will allow us to pack more of everything in our ship refitting, including more manufactories which just took a hit due to making space for the scrapcode-cancer. At least the first one, second if the trip keeps getting longer and longer.
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And I do want to get them but after streamlined because a high rolls will probably decrease the RP costs of efficiency or give us other options that might work better
 
Derpmind said:
There's another possibility: The warp/galaxy itself might have a mind. Perhaps the nature of the galaxy's dream could be changed.
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I really want to get a look at Necron pylons, figure out if we can make something to sing the galactic subconscious a lullaby to cover for all the horrified screaming going on these days

avatar11792 said:
Nah, not grim enough.

Legendary Iron Warrior who has used a Chaos techno virus to create an Obliterator Norn Queen, fusing the best elements of warp sorcery, advanced war technology, and Tyranid biological adaptation together, creating a new faction of Cyber Tyranids.

And we're breakfast.
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...you know, I think Vita and Anexa would actually be really interested in the obliterator virus (also super horrified, but still fascinated). The "perfect" intersection of cybernetics and the warp, with some biology and probably daemonology thrown in
 
BigFungus26 said:
If we weren't using the ground manufactory model for our flagship (and assuming we researched manufacturing efficiency for the 1/5th of total ship cost), we would be producing 6730BP per turn. over a tenfold increase to our current output.
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10 Manufactories cost 1000 BP, and in exchange gives us 500 BP per Construction action.
An equivalent amount spent on a normal ship with the Large scale research gives us 1000/5=200 BP per action.

The 1/5 is 1/5 of the amount spent on the manufactories themselves, not of the total amount spent on the ship.
 
Xon said:
All of the WH40K video games are weirdly free of cranes even when it would make a ton of sense for them to be used. I think cranes might literally be archeo-tech for segments of the Imperium
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When you have relatively ubiquitous anti gravity, you don't need cranes to lift stuff.

I can see how they fell out of use and were forgotten about.
 
AltF4152 said:
When you have relatively ubiquitous anti gravity, you don't need cranes to lift stuff.

I can see how they fell out of use and were forgotten about.
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Yeah, but it's a...crane. like big hamster wheel cranes were used to construct medieval castles. Considering how many Knight and Feral Worlds the Imperium has, not being able to figure out a crane is the height of world building idiocy.

And don't try to play the "Mechanicus Holy Omnissiah secret, you see a crane without permission you die to keep the Holy Knowledge" card. That's another element of 40k idiocy I kinda hate too. I know the above idea is not literally canon, but so much of 40k is written like (ie grimderp) that I wouldn't be surprised if somebody tried that as a defense.

***

If I was coming at the universe of 40K with a blank slate approach, I would probably have most Worlds at a minimum of Renaissance or early 19th century level of technology. Given that over 5,000 years went by between the age of strife and the Imperium expanding from terra, that would have been enough time for most worlds to rebuild themselves from the ashes. What we view as human history or civilization has occurred in roughly the past 5,000 years, even the most obliterated world should have been able to rebuild to a minimal State like that.

There's also the point that the Dark age of technology did not use such primitive concepts as coal or oil, which could physically pop up as deposits on relatively life-bearing planets. Those deposits, made by alien life and alien ecosystems, would have remained undisturbed the entire time human civilization was built on top of them. So if humanity did fall from using such sophisticated things as anti-gravity, they would rebuild and use the deposits on said worlds, at the very least building themselves up back to 20th century levels of technology with oil and coal.

I don't know, the concept of Feral worlds never made any sense to me, and medieval Knight worlds barely make any sense to me either. If there were so many threats hitting certain worlds that they could not advance technologically to a minimum state like the Renaissance or early Victorian or 20th century, then said alien threats would have just wiped them out entirely. 40K orks would obliterate anyone earlier than medieval, there's no way in hell someone with the technology of say ancient Rome could fight off 40K orks.

Anyways, those are my two cents and my small soap box rant about how 40Ks World building is really really dumb. Doesn't really matter much for the game, but I have faith in the GM that they can have the better parts of 40K be made manifest, while avoiding the idiocy of "somehow nobody could figure out how a crane f****** worked".
 
The opening of Space Marine 1 has cranes scaled to carry and move capital craft.

That being said, on the giant spaceships is where I think bizarre improvised solutions and mass sacrificing human labor to make up for technology makes by far the most sense, as they're deeply isolated and weird societies. The officer's deck isn't even going to talk to them unless something breaks beyond function, much less resupply them. And that talking is likely to consist of orders of decimation for heretical labor-shyness, so they'll do quite a bit to avoid it.
 
Haganeko said:
We might be able to get it to do the "build blanks" thing? Or that might need another tech.

I think what was meant was "for building other ships that do manufacturing" (only our flagship uses ground manufactories).

I think we should look into researching Immaterium Understanding. Guaranteed level for Anexa, probably other goodies.

Now, a list of all 50 RP research (as of turn 21, per the Informational post):
Ship Design
Medium Defense Platforms
General Design
Ground Manufactory Efficiency
Mothballing
Stealth
Basic Ground Force Stealth
Improved Passive Stealth
Robotics
improved Armor Articulation
Physics
Miniaturized Antigrav
Biology
Servitorization
Maube there's a point to med school
Cybernetics
Combat Neural Implants

This adds up to 470 RP. 420 if we ignore Servitorization. Now some of these are more useful than others, but I think we at least ought to finish Med School and get Combat Implants, GME, Improved Passive Stealth, and Medium Defense Platforms. Getting all the non-servo ones in one turn might be better, though.
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Some of the tech that looks "foundational", by which I mean research that is
1. Not locked behind other research
2. Going to affect a lot of other research, by my reckoning:
Ship Design
Streamlined ship design (150 RP)
Stealth
Improved Passive Stealth (50 RP)
Basic Active Stealth (100 RP)
Materials and Armour
Advanced Materials (250 RP)
Robotics
Really good Robotics (600 RP)
AI
Intelligence Coding (400 RP)
Psychic Shielding
Efficient Psychic Shielding (100 RP)
Alternative Shielding Meanings (200 RP)
The Warp
Empathy as Sensors (150 RP)
Faith is my shield? (150 RP)
Demonology (250 RP) (750 RP without Bongo)
Immaterium Understanding (300 RP)
The Basics of Psychic Computation (500 RP)
Physics
Superconductive Shenanigans (100 RP)
High-energy Physics (300 RP)
Machine-Spirits
Large-scale Machine spirits (100 RP)
Machine Spirit Design (200 RP)
Psytech Machine spirits (100 RP)
Biology
Complex genetic enhancement (150 RP)
Understanding Mutations (200 RP)
Does in vitro have something to do with wine? (150 RP)
Cybernetics
Combat Mobility Cybernetics (100 RP)
Combat Neural Implants (50 RP)
Advanced organ replacements (150 RP)
Advanced Neural Implants (150 RP)

Would appreciate comment since it is subjective.
Prices all subject to change when update drops.
 
Psitech, including amplification, suppression, and weapons. Though in that case, the stuff they effect is mostly locked behind them, probably?
 
Bolo said:
Any thoughts on researching and making more AI's?
Either to travel with us or to build up our interests locally.
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I would like to work up to that, yeah. LSMS and Advanced Neural Implants are both noted to dicount it on crits.
 
I'm very keen to dive into machine spirit design, the new bonus tech we unlocked last turn. Seems like it would unlock the next tier of machine spirit boosts and potentially increase our RP per turn.

Neablis said:
Machine Spirit Design (200 RP) The potential of industrial machine spirits to improve the design process could be incredible. It might get to a point where you can simply input a design parameter and they could spit out a new design. And you could theoretically use them to generate new research ideas too... (Discounts all designs, from ships to installations to units. Unlocks technology to further optimize ship cramming, as well as potential technology to incorporate machine spirits into your research process, improving the number of RP you get per action).
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armentho said:
neat we got scrapcode resistant shields just in time,bongo must be seething
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I'm not going to count chickens until the update drops.

Alectai said:
Yeah, basically, I get the impression that "As we expected, he did try to stage an escape attempt, but our paranoia level precautions are enough to stop him dead in his tracks
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Last time, when we rolled a 16, he got his hands on two destroyers, corruption bombs inserted into our entire manufacturing chain, and a hundred some stealth missiles. We rolled a 4 this time. I would not bet on no consequences, not when this is narrative driven and we just mucked up bad on our 3rd interaction.

Bolo said:
I see a lot of low hanging fruit from the tech tree we aren't researching.
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YUP. THIS. And it never will be researched until Bongo is tossed into a sun, because we are riding that tiger hard right now.
 
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Glau said:
Last time, when we rolled a 16, he got his hands on two destroyers, corruption bombs inserted into our entire manufacturing chain, and a hundred some stealth missiles. We rolled a 4 this time. I would not bet on no consequences, not when this is narrative driven and we just picked up bad on our 3rd interaction.
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There is no functional difference between a 4 and a 16, both are poor successes with our +20, everything short on a 2+ is some kind of success when it comes to research, that is where the confidence of pocking a daemon with a stick comes from. We develop tech faster than it develops powers at least that is the idea... and we just rolled a 100 on scrapcope protections. I would be surprised if it manages to do more than chip our paint
 
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