- Location
- Boston
They do! Construction actions happen in sequence, not in parallel.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
The flagship isn't going to finish in time unless we put all our actions on building it. No time for fun or important stuff like exploring the system. Wouldn't it be better to build some light cruiser monitors to fight off the next assault instead?
Dumping all our actions on the flagship for two turns really doesn't interest me.
Dumping all our actions on the flagship for two turns really doesn't interest me.
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- Location
- Boston
We can, but would need to build a shipyard to make them and a research action to design them. The current plan for getting our flagship done in 6 actions also uses the majority of our CP, leaving us with only a few hundred left. Adding ships in would mean we would need to change the build order and it would likely take longer.
I agree that building the flagship will be a pain, but a 6 action commitment will always be a pain. I think it would be best to knock it out quickly. I trust Neablis to make the building process interesting. Worst case an uneventful turn is an easy to write short update and we move onto the next turn.
Here are the three draft plans I'm considering based on my earlier post. All three are on track to have the flagship built in 6 actions total and complete the first 2 of those actions.
[] Plan: Build our Ship, and Research
-[]Research 1
--[] Ground Manufactory Efficiency Improvements (50 RP)
--[] The Basics of Psytech (15/100 -> 45 + 40 RP)
---Axena assists
--[] Improved Psychic shielding: (40 -> 100 RP)
--[] 45 RP overflow to Ground Manufacturing if needed, else Medical School
-[]Research 2
--[] Scrapcode Research (200 RP)
-[]Construction 1 (4850 BP):
--[]48 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4800 BP, 2400 CP)
--[]Trade goods (50 BP)
-[]Construction 2 (7250 BP):
--[]22 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (2,200 BP, 1,100 CP)
--[]7 Spaceport (100 BP, 25 CP) --- (700 BP, 175 CP)
--[]70 Shuttle (20 BP, 5 CP) --- (1,400 BP, 350 CP)
--[]Orbital Observatory – Built at Denva L2 point (200 VBP)
--[]500 BP for Psy-shield upgrades (new ship -> bongo's prision)
--[]SHIP 2250 BP + overflow
[] Plan: Build our Ship, Hold the
-[]Research 1
--[] Ground Manufactory Efficiency Improvements (50 RP)
--[] The Basics of Psytech (15/100 -> 45 + 40 RP)
---Axena assists
--[] Improved Psychic shielding: (40 -> 100 RP)
--[] Spy Satellites (25 RP)
--[] 20 RP overflow to Ground Manufacturing if needed, else Medical School
-[]Order
--[] Your two new destroyers will conduct a shakedown cruise and survey the Denva system, they will take detailed readings from each planet and station and leave behind a small monitoring satellite to keep an eye on things.
-[]Construction 1 (4850 BP):
--[]48 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4800 BP, 2400 CP)
--[]Trade goods (50 BP)
-[]Construction 2 (7250 BP):
--[]22 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (2,200 BP, 1,100 CP)
--[]7 Spaceport (100 BP, 25 CP) --- (700 BP, 175 CP)
--[]70 Shuttle (20 BP, 5 CP) --- (1,400 BP, 350 CP)
--[]Orbital Observatory – Built at Denva L2 point (200 VBP)
--[]20x Spy Satellites (200 VBP)
--[]500 BP for Psy-shield upgrades
--[]SHIP 1800 BP + overflow
[] Plan: Build our Ship, Hold the
-[]Research 1
--[] Ground Manufactory Efficiency Improvements (50 RP)
--[] The Basics of Psytech (15/100 -> 45 + 40 RP)
---Axena assists
--[] Improved Psychic shielding: (40 -> 100 RP)
--[] 45 RP overflow to Ground Manufacturing if needed, else Medical School
-[]Construction 1 (4850 BP):
--[]48 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4800 BP, 2400 CP)
--[]Trade goods (50 BP)
-[]Construction 2 (7250 BP):
--[]22 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (2,200 BP, 1,100 CP)
--[]7 Spaceport (100 BP, 25 CP) --- (700 BP, 175 CP)
--[]70 Shuttle (20 BP, 5 CP) --- (1,400 BP, 350 CP)
--[]Orbital Observatory – Built at Denva L2 point (200 VBP)
--[]500 BP for Psy-shield upgrades (new ship -> bongo's prision -> Excess to Shipyard)
--[]Large Shipyard (0 -> 2,250 BP)
-[]Construction 3 (8,350 BP):
--Large Shipyard (2,250 -> 10,000 BP)
--All Excess BP to start ship (600 BP)
-Note: Flagship will cost 31,150 BP with shipyard. Built in 4 construction actions with 2,805 BP leftover
Edit: @Neablis, it doesn't seem like Victan's specialty or our new Psy-Bean would greatly impact any plan. Could we separate these out into their own task votes? That would avoid players voting for or against a plan just for a bean choice.
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meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Incorrect. I've already worked out the math with Karnax626 to do it in 6 actions in 2 turns. And it could probably be improved upon, if we either accept going over the CP limit after the ship is activated and letting the manufactories (or other installations) fall into disrepair, research to decrease the CP cost of our manufactories or research on how to mothball the manufactories.
Also, the problem is that we don't know what kind of problem will be arriving here, or with how much forces it will be arriving with. Just that it is probably not the Imperium, as they evacuated their most valuable personel and assets from here in response to something. So I think that aiming for an overkill, while still retaining the ability to run away if needed against a potentially overwhelmingly powerful enemy? Is probably in our best interests.
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- Location
- NYC
What do the numbers next to the psykers mean?
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I think we need to work backwards from the role we expect our crew members to serve.
We need someone who can run our armies and fight the named monsters, that's pretty much our biggest weakness right now. No champion, no general. I think the pyro would be perfect here: she's got the skill set and she wants to do great deeds.
We could also use an early warning system, since we can't see outside of a system yet and we are real shaky on knowing when to run and when to fight. I think the seer would be best here- giving us a line on what the upcoming threats are.
Telekine is nice, I kinda want to leave him his own ship, but I don't see what role he fills or how he contributes to us.
We need someone who can run our armies and fight the named monsters, that's pretty much our biggest weakness right now. No champion, no general. I think the pyro would be perfect here: she's got the skill set and she wants to do great deeds.
We could also use an early warning system, since we can't see outside of a system yet and we are real shaky on knowing when to run and when to fight. I think the seer would be best here- giving us a line on what the upcoming threats are.
Telekine is nice, I kinda want to leave him his own ship, but I don't see what role he fills or how he contributes to us.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly? After that poor shmuck blew his load I'd actually consider it if we were just a little better prepared.
However, we're missing a key piece - personal psychic shielding, applied to the bots going inside to do the work. One of the big risks of the scrapcode research is that it can attack whatever we use to run the experiments, and then turn those captured units towards physically sabotaging the vault from the inside.
That's aside from the vault shielding being less relevant in general since we'd be directly connected. We still want improved shielding for ourselves too - though now I'm contemplating beefing up the vault directly. If the demon hadn't completely jobbed, Alectai's 70% integrity red line would have been breached and we might have no more scrapcode daemon to study.
Oh well, with the bigger moratorium there'll be more time to consider plans in light of the daemon's current state.
Anyways - @Neablis , Anexa's action went to improved psychic shielding, not the basics of psytech, so that should still be at 15/100 while improved psychic shielding should be at 40/100RP.
Also, the available research spoiler for basics of psytech doesn't have the correct price at the moment.
Pyromancy is better than Telekinesis at that, but only somewhat better outside of specific high end powers that she won't be using for a long time and he's stronger. I think it's a wash champion-wise.
- Location
- Boston
I honestly could be convinced of any of the Psy-beans for our ship, part of the reason I asked Neablis to make it a separate task vote.
@Prime 2.0, I think we can take (and have taken) precautions against it jumping into our bots, but I understand your point and I do want mini-shields eventually. My thought for tackling it this turn is it is currently as weak as we have ever seen it. Now seems like the best time to roll the dice.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
"Pet" rolled a nat 100 on 4-dimensional psychological warfare.Yeah, it's great that our chaos pet will just passively give us bonuses to research like thata real team player!
Uh...
Are we certain there are hard mechanics for it?
And not vibes coalescing into narratively apropriate options when the time comes?
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
If we are going to be building alot of Manufactories to build this thing, we should research something like this:
-[] Superconductive Shenanigans (200 RP) Room-temperature superconductors are a thing. But only kind of, and they still need to be highly pressurized to be stable. You know some people cracked this problem, but they didn't publish on it, which was annoying. But you think you might have an idea how they did it. Figuring it out would be great for manufacturing, and drop costs across the board. (A flat production boost of 5-15% depending on rolls).
This will boost our Production by at least 5% and with the amount we have that's not a small amount.
-[] Superconductive Shenanigans (200 RP) Room-temperature superconductors are a thing. But only kind of, and they still need to be highly pressurized to be stable. You know some people cracked this problem, but they didn't publish on it, which was annoying. But you think you might have an idea how they did it. Figuring it out would be great for manufacturing, and drop costs across the board. (A flat production boost of 5-15% depending on rolls).
This will boost our Production by at least 5% and with the amount we have that's not a small amount.
- Location
- Boston
2 light macros and a light lance, full loadout below
@Speedemon22, hmmm. This would eat an action but would net us between 417 and 1252 extra BP (assuming 8350 BP base). Even at the high end it wouldn't get us under 6 actions for building. While we would have a lot of leftover BP to pour into other project we are looking to be very CP tight, so I'm not sure what would make sense.
Let me crunch some math...
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- Location
- Utrecht
There is a standard scale for psyker power levels. The number is the level on the scale.
Rho (neutral) is 0, Alpha is 16
I was just rereading and this jumped up at me:
The monasteries have two lines of descent, the astropaths who retreated here after the fall of House Denva and the 'rogue psyker' who first taught the governor's people psychic lore. Given that the abbot called out the inquisition by name, something most imperials avoid doing with almost superstitious dread I think it is almost guaranteed that 'rogue' was anything but and we are looking at some kind of Inquisitorial plan. At first glance it seems odd that any inquisitor would do something like this in a planet that shares space with a major Navigator asset, but thinking about it... if the planet is overshadowed by the station all the better for the plans of the inquisition not to be noticed.
The monasteries have two lines of descent, the astropaths who retreated here after the fall of House Denva and the 'rogue psyker' who first taught the governor's people psychic lore. Given that the abbot called out the inquisition by name, something most imperials avoid doing with almost superstitious dread I think it is almost guaranteed that 'rogue' was anything but and we are looking at some kind of Inquisitorial plan. At first glance it seems odd that any inquisitor would do something like this in a planet that shares space with a major Navigator asset, but thinking about it... if the planet is overshadowed by the station all the better for the plans of the inquisition not to be noticed.
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Fixed, thanks!
You don't have to. It might be optimal from a metagaming perspective but from a story perspective it's better if you only look stuff up when you need it. Then I don't need to write a completely disconnected chunk of the update that's just Vita looking stuff up.
Not really my plan, but he definitely came across that way. I was trying to portray Cia as a somewhat amazonian personality and I wanted to make sure she had some competition, and I may have overdone it.
I knew I forgot something big. Let me fix that. New text:
-[] Personal-sized Psychic shielding: (150 RP) You were able to break your psychic shielding down into components to rescale it, but that gets you down to a size measured in tens of meters. If you want to make another one that's even smaller, then you're going to have to break it down into even smaller pieces and build something back up again. But doing that would let you start weaving the shielding into armor or individual bots. (Allows you to outfit individuals with psychic shielding, though it may be less powerful than what you can build into larger structures. Unlocks additional technology for further miniaturization to put it into totems or implants.)
-[] Nested Psychic shielding: (200 RP) With multiple sizes of shielding comes the question - can you simply layer different kinds of shielding to protect against psychic attacks. The current answer is no due to some unfortunate resonance between different layers of shielding. You think you can solve for that, though it involves you making some assumptions about warp-psyker-stuff that you'll need to validate experimentally (Allows you to have multiple layers of shielding active at once. Unlocks additional technology for templating multiple effects into one shield, which will also require improved psychic shielding.) Locked behind warp understanding.
It won't usually happen, but if it does it's because you've figured out all of the parts of that technology from other angles, and just don't need to research it anymore. I'll probably just remove it from the list.
Technically yes - you can earmark it by saying "If this particular tech/any of the techs needs extra time then use this extra RP" and it'll help mitigate any poor successes depending on the size of the tech that rolled badly, the amount of unspent RP, how bad the roll was. Then you can put in a "If unneeded put it towards X" and if the tech(s) in question rolled well then it would go there.
I'd prefer you not abuse this too hard, specifically by making if you finish a second tech dependent on the first rolling well. And I may retract the option if you get in the habit of almost finishing techs and then using a giant pool of unspent RP to mitigate bad rolls and then using it to almost finish other techs.
It's a bespoke custom design that requires your AI core inserted inside to work. This is basically Vita's special explorer mechanic, to build 1 flagship that's bigger than what she could normally otherwise build.
You have destroyers in orbit now. They've got more sensors than an observatory would have. An observatory is mostly for checking out a local solar system, not necessarily spotting ships (unless they're big enough to get picked out from multiple AU away)
Yup.
Yeah, I can agree with that. Changed the update and also declaring here Crew vote & Victan specialty vote are seperate from major plan vote. So you'll vote like this:
[] Cia Steblin, confidant pyromancer. Zeta (11)
[] Diplomat-spy
[] Plan: Time to take up war-yodeling
How powerful they are, according to the assignment.
Fixed, thanks.
None of the psychic disciplines are inherently better than the others, but they've certainly got different focuses.
Pyromancy will be most champion-focused, and will scale with psytech into voidship & army-scale effects. It's very much the "now you die" discipline.
Telekinesis is more flexible, with both the ability to attack and defend and some mobility sprinkled in. It'll be significantly less effective at killing things, but can manage it in a pinch. It's probably the one the scales the worst with huge psytech. It'll be pretty effective for things like infiltration.
Divination isn't good in direct conflict, but it's benefits will be more strategic, and you can choose to either use it to learn what your enemies are up to or to manipulate your dice.
Biomancy is more around healing & buffing. A biomancer can be quite powerful in direct combat, but more in the "very strong and self-healing champion" then the "melt you and the room you're standing in" sense. Will also have applications in medical/enhancement/augmentation fields.
And then a telepath is weird. They're in some senses the ideal spy and diplomat, while also having the ability to directly attack people. Almost more versatile than the telekinetic, but with the limitations of not being able to interface with robots without psytech and being the easiest discipline to actively shield agaisnt.
And of course, all disciplines can use force weaponry, which is a big deal.
Regardless it'll be a while before these psykers are up and running - they'll start at level 0, and levelling them will either be slow or risky.
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- Location
- Utrecht
Burning a voidship out of the sky seems like the kind of deed Cia wants to perform
- Location
- Boston
Alright, so even with superconductors we cannot get down to 5 construction actions. Even assuming the full 15% increase we would be at 10,752 BP per action, after two construction actions which is just shy of the 11,216 BP breakpoint we would need.
However, going through all this math made me realize that my construction plan is based on last turns CP count which does not account for the discount of machine spirit bots (saved us 960 CP). This gives us some more space for factories in our CP budget.
We are currently using 6,045 CP of 12,500. If we get the factory improvement (and it give a 20% reduction like void) that puts us at 5385 CP before construction. After reserving the 1775 CP our flagship needs we have 5340 CP left. This would let us build 90 more manufactories (with spaceports and shuttles) and have 165 CP leftover.
-[]Construction 1 (4850 BP):
--[]48 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4800 BP, 2400 CP)
--[]Trade goods (50 BP)
-[]Construction 2 (7250 BP):
--[]42 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4,200 BP, 2100 CP)
--[]9 Spaceport (100 BP, 25 CP) --- (900 BP, 225 CP)
--[]90 Shuttle (20 BP, 5 CP) --- (1,800 BP, 450 CP)
--[]350 leftover
9350 BP / Turn
Personally I think this goes too hard on factories we will immediately have to divest after the ship is done, but the math is here if someone else want to use it.
Also, thanks for the answers @Neablis and adjusting the vote.
However, going through all this math made me realize that my construction plan is based on last turns CP count which does not account for the discount of machine spirit bots (saved us 960 CP). This gives us some more space for factories in our CP budget.
We are currently using 6,045 CP of 12,500. If we get the factory improvement (and it give a 20% reduction like void) that puts us at 5385 CP before construction. After reserving the 1775 CP our flagship needs we have 5340 CP left. This would let us build 90 more manufactories (with spaceports and shuttles) and have 165 CP leftover.
-[]Construction 1 (4850 BP):
--[]48 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4800 BP, 2400 CP)
--[]Trade goods (50 BP)
-[]Construction 2 (7250 BP):
--[]42 Manufactory (100 BP, 50 CP) --- (4,200 BP, 2100 CP)
--[]9 Spaceport (100 BP, 25 CP) --- (900 BP, 225 CP)
--[]90 Shuttle (20 BP, 5 CP) --- (1,800 BP, 450 CP)
--[]350 leftover
9350 BP / Turn
Personally I think this goes too hard on factories we will immediately have to divest after the ship is done, but the math is here if someone else want to use it.
Also, thanks for the answers @Neablis and adjusting the vote.
I assume you're accounting for the possibility of building orbital or deep space manufacturing instead of ground+lift for the better CP economy (currently at significant penalty to BP economy)?
Relatedly, has the thread probed for what going down Large Scale Void Manufacturing looks like? It seems like it's bound to be long-term superior but might not pay off soon enough.
- Location
- USA
This also gets us Quench Guns and is on the way to getting proper Macron Guns/Dust Guns/Sandcasters, so to replace the horrible and inefficient ammo and utterly ridiculous size necessary for what we use for macrocannons.
Right, @Neablis?
- Location
- Boston
Just mentioned above, but the construction plan was built around ground factories since those are the most BP efficient and thus faster to build. I imagine after our ship we would use the ground factories to build space ones at the same rate we hand over the ground factories.
There does seem to be a lot of potential behind Large scale void manufacturing, but it wouldn't be fast enough. Currently the desire is to get our ship built in two turns.
- Location
- California
I mean there isn't anything wrong with the occasional narrative choice having a more obvious answer. The thread as a whole was never gonna say no to taking Anexa onboard after all, should that have been balanced out somehow?