I think old means "1/10 of BP spend on manufactry".
New is 50 BP production at 100 BP cost. And using moduleslots+CP instead of counting for weapons cramming.
So we are getting 1/2 the invested BP as production, instead of 1/10.
Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
New is 50 BP production at 100 BP cost. And using moduleslots+CP instead of counting for weapons cramming.
So we are getting 1/2 the invested BP as production, instead of 1/10.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Yeah this is looking at two different things - one is a manufactory, as built into a base hull that's not our flag ship, the other is a manufactory, as built in a module slot on our flag ship.
You know when it comes to general void BP I think it might be worth it to just bite the bullet, find a dead system and set up some Manufactories and shipyards for the sole purpose of being a fallback base. In the long term we can set up a production AI there to keep the machines going, but for the short term just knowing we have a place to retreat to that isn't known to other people in the sector would be nice and (more importantly) we can space out visits to our bolthole so Vita doesn't go stir crazy during which we use the VBP there to make more ships and other equipment so we do not have to start from the 500 we have on the ship with every new system.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Sorry, I think that all research will be probably taken up by other more urgent issues. Like getting better/more psychic shield or alternatives up, and then the scrapcode. We might've gotten something AI-appliable from the monasteries, after all, and can't be sure.
This, on the other hand, would probably work. Even if it turns out that we can't turn them into manned manufactories because something more urgent comes up and requires all the BP suddenly and us using the ship immediately? Well, we can just cut them off the network, and they will still have paid themselves back and over their initial cost.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
I suspect just abandoning them will cause *some* kind of problems for *someone*... But if we're leaving, it probably won't be us, and as long as we give them some kind of warning I think the Denvans probably won't complain too much, even if they do have some casualties to the hazards of abandoned machinery, and said machinery is in worse condition than they'd like it.
That said, I would still like to recommend the research action in concert with this - if we research both GMEI and MMS, then the odds that *one of them* will complete and give us a CP discount is pretty high, high enough to justify the effort - and maybe even save us a build action, depending on how it goes.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
That sounds useful, but not as vital as psychic shielding and/or equivalent tech from the monasteries (if it requires researching before we can use it). Or the scrapcode, which is urgent to me because I fear us losing access to it. And not wanting to give the daemon more time than absolutely necessary to hatch any sorts of plans or gather power. On the chance this is what it is doing, instead of being mostly inert, which I admit is a possibility. Anyway, I don't see us researching those techs you mentioned atm. Though later on we absolutely should.
I like this idea. I think Neablis mentioned a mothballing research project that will come available to us once we hit the CP limit. So that could potentially work as an alternative before we get to making more AI.
- Location
- Don't know
- Pronouns
- Whats/That
If we do set this up we'll need to prep a defense network so it doesn't get destroyed or taken over while we're away. Alot can happen in five years, even by 40k's standards.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Between the two of them, they only eat 150 RP, possibly as little as 100 RP if GMEI discounts MMS, so we could fit them and half or more of the scrapcode research. And if the GMEI and MMS researches go very well, they could potentially free up an entire build action that we could dedicate to more research. It's a bit of a gamble, but I think the odds are pretty favorable. And we're doing a pretty good job staying ahead of the scrapcode anyway... Though it is probably best to wait and see how our existing researches go before we make any hard plans there.
Edit: To free up an action, I think the two of them would need to cumulatively free up 25% of the Manufactory CP - which given that the void manufactory efficiency freed up 20% CP and the machine spirits freed up 90% CP, I think is eminently possible.
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Ok, I'm finally out of travel & obligation time, can finally pay attention to the quest again!
First, an excerpt from the coming update:
I'm currently thinking that the level 10/20/30 options for a psyker would either be to pick up a new discipline or specialize further down their current discipline.
Psykers won't have active/passive actions in the same way as your other characters. Most of theirs will likely be focused on more/less risky ways to level.
Divination is likely both dice manipulation (of the reroll/pre-roll variety) and things like discerning the plans/rolls of your enemies.
Psytech is a large research tree, with some very powerful applications. A battleship-scale amplifier specialized to the right discipline would let a powerful biomancer terraform a world, a powerful pyromancer vaporize a (large) fleet or a powerful telekinetic change the orbit of a moon. The kinds of psytech you have access to will be gated behind what specialties you have access to, and at what power.
-[] Mothballing (100 RP) Keeping a bunch of systems functional and ready requires attention that is swiftly running out. Maybe you can figure out how to spend less attention on things that are mostly inactive (Unlocks the ability to mothball an installation for 10% of it's build cost, free reactivation that takes a few weeks. May unlock techs to allow you to freely turn things on and off, as well as increasing the speed of reactivation enough for you to keep military installations mothballed until they're needed.)
Also - I posted a link to this Quest on my other fic on a different site, so we're likely to get some new readers coming in. They may be new to Questing, and I might preemptively request a bit of foreberance for any newcomers who don't quite understand the ettiquete or standard practices here.
I might have missed things, there was a lot of stuff going by! Feel free to ping me with specific questions, but for now I'm going to work on the update. I'll try to get it done tonight, but no promises. I'm running on fumes on a borrowed laptop at the moment, but I've been thinking about writing all day.
First, an excerpt from the coming update:
I'm currently thinking that the level 10/20/30 options for a psyker would either be to pick up a new discipline or specialize further down their current discipline.
Psykers won't have active/passive actions in the same way as your other characters. Most of theirs will likely be focused on more/less risky ways to level.
Divination is likely both dice manipulation (of the reroll/pre-roll variety) and things like discerning the plans/rolls of your enemies.
Psytech is a large research tree, with some very powerful applications. A battleship-scale amplifier specialized to the right discipline would let a powerful biomancer terraform a world, a powerful pyromancer vaporize a (large) fleet or a powerful telekinetic change the orbit of a moon. The kinds of psytech you have access to will be gated behind what specialties you have access to, and at what power.
Yes, totally.
That's correct.
That's an error. It's been fixed. Thanks for calling it out!
Yeah. My plan is for mothballing to cost 10% of the build cost - but you don't have the tech for it yet. I was going to unlock it when you approached the CP cap. You're planning around it now so let me stick it in quickly. It'll be in the new turn.
-[] Mothballing (100 RP) Keeping a bunch of systems functional and ready requires attention that is swiftly running out. Maybe you can figure out how to spend less attention on things that are mostly inactive (Unlocks the ability to mothball an installation for 10% of it's build cost, free reactivation that takes a few weeks. May unlock techs to allow you to freely turn things on and off, as well as increasing the speed of reactivation enough for you to keep military installations mothballed until they're needed.)
Yeah, I think you figured it out. These folks have it right:
Yeah, the 1/10 number is bad and makes it hard to justify a factory ship. The -[] Large-scale Void Manufacturing tech will drop it to 1/5, or potentially even better if you roll well.
Also - I posted a link to this Quest on my other fic on a different site, so we're likely to get some new readers coming in. They may be new to Questing, and I might preemptively request a bit of foreberance for any newcomers who don't quite understand the ettiquete or standard practices here.
I might have missed things, there was a lot of stuff going by! Feel free to ping me with specific questions, but for now I'm going to work on the update. I'll try to get it done tonight, but no promises. I'm running on fumes on a borrowed laptop at the moment, but I've been thinking about writing all day.
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- Location
- Australia
If you don't mind me asking, could we have a link to that fic as well? I'd love to read more of your writing.
Here - unfortunately it's stubbed and only the latest book is available for free. The rest can be found on Amazon through Kindle Unlimited & Audible. Regrettably the only way to do decently as an indie author is to sign up for amazon exclusivity, and I've got a whole rant about how amazon has managed to monopolize the indie distribution market, though I think Sanderson said it better than I could.
Disclaimer 1 - Obviosuly I have a personal financial interest in this, so I'm not going to link the amazon/audible page or even name the story to try and avoid breaking SV advertising rules.
Disclaimer 2 - The pen name I use on my published work isn't my real name or linked to it.
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Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Okay, so mothballing isn't too bad... Except that we'd need to research it first. That's fine though, we can stick to refitting or abandoning manufactories if we need to.
On another note, what metric do yall think we should we pick our psyker by? We have three main criteria to judge at the moment, friendliness, power, and psychic discipline. I'd probably rank discipline as the most important and friendliness after that - but with all three pretty closely together. And I think that divination is the best discipline, but wouldn't put telekinesis too far behind, and pyromancy even closer behind that...
On another note, what metric do yall think we should we pick our psyker by? We have three main criteria to judge at the moment, friendliness, power, and psychic discipline. I'd probably rank discipline as the most important and friendliness after that - but with all three pretty closely together. And I think that divination is the best discipline, but wouldn't put telekinesis too far behind, and pyromancy even closer behind that...
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't think so? Machine spirits aren't a control interface, they're a computation platform.
I expect it to make factory OMC research cheaper though, because one of the hallmarks of machine spirits in this quest is that it makes control and interface easier, provided that's what you're doing.
It should be noted this is pretty complex technology. Sure Vita can easily make and repair it, but she can also make plasma weapons and power armor from random rocks she found in a hole. I think as a first step a planet could make it so that certain buildings of high risk are warded first, schools, hospitals and the like which are likely to be inherently high stress for the occupants and thus favorable to whispers of the warp
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Yeah there's a lot of infra on Denva in need of rebuilds and refits. Something for them to do with all the manufactories we're about to hand off to them in a few turns.
Obviously after we have some combat assets to avoid the instant-loss filter condition, and starting with monasteries. But frankly every major building (with priority based on how critical it is), and especially where people sleep should be covered in psyshields given the conditions in WH40K if it is possible.
Just that scrapcode generator would be enough to warrant it given how scrapcode jumps air gapped networks and takes control of technology as if there was suddenly a malevolent non-corporeal intelligence stapled to it.
Building psyshielding everywhere isn't something to crank out in a single turn or even half a dozen, but a civilization defining mega-project.
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Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Eh, with the kind of exponential growth in manufacturing we're capable of, half a dozen turns would be more than enough so long as we had volunteers to run the manufacturies and nothing trying to chew our legs off in the meantime. Though that last one might be difficult, given that this is 40k...
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
A thought ocurred, our Psy-Shield's work by basically thinking 'No' as loud as they can 24/7, answering any questions the warp may ask, so would this affect our psykers?
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
That is a thought. Even if there's no immediate effect, there could be long term ones. Though given they live under their own psy shields full time, we can probably conclude that there don't have to be negative effects. So if our shielding has them, well, that gives us something else to research. :/
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ehhh. Problem: adding miniaturized shielding worth a damn to a mere three complexes cost 200 BP. 250 BP is a significant enough share of the mechanicus's global production that freeing it up outweighed banning servitors as far as our popularity with them went.
Now multiply that by tens of millions. Now consider that it's ablative shielding, so you can't build it over generations and then call it done, there's an ongoing maintenance cost. And that it's actively powered.
Global psi shielding is not in any way practical, even for us. Psy shielded bunkers and emergency shelters are more plausible. Versus the scrapcode generator, the more relevant bit is just machine spirits going into everything, and how we're going to improve the cogitators they're made of to resist chaos even better.
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Angle
Release Candidate Enby
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Well I don't think the mechanicus global production was actually very high. And given we have a lot of options for boosting productivity and making the psy shields better (hopefully including cheaper), I think global psy shield coverage is something we could theoretically do, even if it took a while.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
...Hmmm. What about amplifying a psyker crewmember outside of the ship (I'm assuming the psyker is inside the ship in your example)? Ship in the orbit (or otherwise nearby them) somehow allowing the psyker on the ground with specific piece(s) of psytech (probably cybernetics) amplify their psychic strength to a lesser (but still very noticable) degree?
Half a dozen turns is nearly a century of dedicated plant-wide effort. That is a mega-project for a single world
It might have downsides, but the upside is everyone around the psyker not being eaten by bad-touch feelings doing koolaid man impressions.
Yes, it is ablative shielding but vastly more importantly is it is a trip-wire to detect warp bullshit. Functionally no one else in the IoM has that, and it is simple worth the absurd building cost and staggeringly large maintenance cost just to cover every major building and hack away at high density residential complexes (not individual houses...).