Gee Karl, that sounds like optimization to me, and I've already expressed disdain for that as an argument.
...no it is IC for Shu, compared to being build too close to the water. You cannot have it both ways, one option is IC because the Qm offered it and the other is optimization, even though it is also from the Qm or allowed by him.

Shu has already lost comrades and people died under his command, but he has not broken down in tears over it. Now, Ge Maiyu has apparently betrayed him and played him for a fool. I don't see it as being close to the Shu we have right now for him to break down and become depressed over it. The guy was ready and pragmatic enough to order torture on someone and you want to tell me he breaks down because of something like that. I'm sorry that is not Liang Shu. Hell, if Mi or Zhen die. Fuck yeah, that is a good cause for tears and a slight mental breakdown but this.

Just because something is offered as an option, does not make it reasonable or fitting for Shu. We could have let bandits free after capturing them. Ignore pleas of people. It has been quite some time since the start of the quest. Shu has been made into a character with certain attributes and getting depressed and crying over this is not even close to fitting him.

Your pathetic attempt to make this about masculinity and something, something I will just ignore.
 
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[X] Relieved. Everything starts to make sense, it was never you. The Ge were the true enemy hiding behind Leng Jun and manipulating things to the detriment of all. For the good of Xinshen, you will inform the prefect about your suspicions and act with him together for a brighter future for Xinshen.
 
That sounds healthier in moderation than what we've been doing... but I meant moreso in, what does he intend to do? Go to the prefect with this information? Put Ge clan affiliates in areas where they are less capable of causing harm, added supervision to see if they send messagers or the like? Some of the choices are clearly stating that certain action will be taken so that's having some bearing on what people are selecting rather than it being purely a new mindset.

Will likely push Shu into playing a more active hand in the intrigue side of things, and wanting to deal with this issue more privately and behind closed doors.
 
[X] Relieved. Everything starts to make sense, it was never you. The Ge were the true enemy hiding behind Leng Jun and manipulating things to the detriment of all. For the good of Xinshen, you will inform the prefect about your suspicions and act with him together for a brighter future for Xinshen.

We should be relieved, and hopefully that will lead to that pompous scion of the Ge being relieved as well.
 
[X] Patient. You will focus on the matter at hand for now, the bandits come first. For now, you will set this aside...but you will deal with this, later.
 
[X] Coldly Furious. You are furious at being framed and deceived, but you must win tomorrow's battle before you can pursue action against the Ge.
 
[X] Relieved. Everything starts to make sense, it was never you. The Ge were the true enemy hiding behind Leng Jun and manipulating things to the detriment of all. For the good of Xinshen, you will inform the prefect about your suspicions and act with him together for a brighter future for Xinshen.

While Coldly Furious would almost undoubtedly feel better for us as the players, I personally feel that it would be a healthier mindset in the long run if we don't go into a simmering rage right now.
 
[X] Coldly Furious. You are furious at being framed and deceived, but you must win tomorrow's battle before you can pursue action against the Ge.
 
[X] Paranoid. Just who else has been tricking you and betraying you? How far does all of this go? Who else can't be trusted?

I'd be questioning everything in his situation. Having the carpet yanked out from beneath you is a distinctly unpleasant sensation.
 
[X] Relieved. Everything starts to make sense, it was never you. The Ge were the true enemy hiding behind Leng Jun and manipulating things to the detriment of all. For the good of Xinshen, you will inform the prefect about your suspicions and act with him together for a brighter future for Xinshen.
 
...no it is IC for Shu, compared to being build too close to the water. You cannot have it both ways, one option is IC because the Qm offered it and the other is optimization, even though it is also from the Qm or allowed by him.
I have entirely no idea what you're talking about. I'm not saying your option isn't allowed or is wrong, I'm saying it's boring. "We must do the most correct and beneficial thing every time" is a boring way to play quests.

Yes, I absolutely can have it that way as a personal preference. As I said before; roleplay>efficiency.

I don't care that it's not super smart to be sad before a battle, sad fucking happens and you just kinda have to deal with it. I don't know anybody in real life who be like "yeah I can't be sad today I have work."

You can push back or fight your sadness. You can distract yourself. You can't just..
Not feel it in the first place. Optimisation in the sense of "it wouldn't be a good idea to feel things so I'm just not gonna feel things" is absolutely revolting to me.

Planning out how to build your city best? Optimise away.

Troop composition? Gotta get as effective a fighting force as possible.

But this "feelings are bad so let's just not have them" bullshit is crossing a line, for me. A personal line, which is informing my personal vote.

You do whatever you want, of course. I'm just hoping my objections resonate with people.

Shu has been made into a character with certain attributes and getting depressed and crying over this is not even close to fitting him
You keep mentioning crying. The vote does not.

I don't know what you are expecting as a result of the vote, but if what you're imaging is "not even close to fitting him" then that's probably not how Gaz is planning to write the scene.

Maybe have any amount of faith in our QM at all? If he's writing Shu as a specific type of character, then whatever Shu feels will be reflected in a way consistent with that character.

How I'm imagining Shu being sad is "gee that's sad, I'm gonna need a minute alone to process" followed by a poor sleep and less joking around in the next few updates.

"What's wrong Shu, you seem pretty down?
"Oh, it's nothing to worry about, it's being handled."
"Dude haven't you heard about the Ge?"
"Oh right, hehe... Sorry I forgot."
"It's no problem. So you were saying...?"


Your pathetic attempt to make this about masculinity and something, something I will just ignore.
What I'm saying is that even the strongest and most stoic of men feel things, they just choose not to show it.

Whether Shu shows it or not doesn't really matter, I just think he's a more interesting person if he actually has to struggle with those feelings instead of deciding to feel whichever way is most optimal.


Edit: just to be super duper clear, I'm not arguing for or against any particular option. Personally I like sad, but you do you.

What I'm arguing is methodology for making this choice. We should choose because an option makes for a more fleshed out and interesting character or experience, rather than because something is efficient. Efficiency should not be a factor in how somebody feels.

I'm defending sad as an option because it's being attacked, but I'm not trying to convince anybody it's 'the best one'. Best shouldn't even factor in to it.
 
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[X] Saddened. You are depressed and hurt by this betrayal. You thought Maiyu and the Ge as friends, and cannot help but tear up at being used by them.
 
Well it woudn't be the first time Shu has doubts like when we protected the Zhang and Gong families Shu had to get reassured by Lu Lingqi and when we marched to attack Zuo we worried about leading them to death but the thing is it doesn't seem to hold him for long.
 
[X] Relieved. Everything starts to make sense, it was never you. The Ge were the true enemy hiding behind Leng Jun and manipulating things to the detriment of all. For the good of Xinshen, you will inform the prefect about your suspicions and act with him together for a brighter future for Xinshen.
 
[X] Patient. You will focus on the matter at hand for now, the bandits come first. For now, you will set this aside...but you will deal with this, later.

Either this or PARANOID. The downside of patient is that being too placid can make us lose serious face with our advisors and friends; and the downside of paranoid is that we purge actually useful aides. But hey, there's a reason Stalin survived until the very end, and going with a "better safe than sorry" approach might keep us alive in a famously dangerous era. Just something to think about.

[] Coldly Furious. You are furious at being framed and deceived, but you must win tomorrow's battle before you can pursue action against the Ge.

Bleh. The cliche "have it all ways option" that baits the dopamine rush of feeling badass than actually sketching out an interesting story.
 
[X] Patient. You will focus on the matter at hand for now, the bandits come first. For now, you will set this aside...but you will deal with this, later.
 
But hey, there's a reason Stalin survived until the very end, and going with a "better safe than sorry" approach might keep us alive in a famously dangerous era. Just something to think about.

OTOH Stalin met his end because either his guards were too scared to open his bedroom door or his doctors hated him too much to actually try to save him, so...
 
[X] Relieved. Everything starts to make sense, it was never you. The Ge were the true enemy hiding behind Leng Jun and manipulating things to the detriment of all. For the good of Xinshen, you will inform the prefect about your suspicions and act with him together for a brighter future for Xinshen.
 
[x] Paranoid. Just who else has been tricking you and betraying you? How far does all of this go? Who else can't be trusted?

Flopping back to my original since it seems we're going to have a landslide of cold fury regardless and I think this is the superior vote from what Gaz said in response to my question. This is a matter that I think would best be handled subtly as he said- an open confrontation will lead to some confusion and chaos among our own and the prefect may not have enough to convince the people he is being legitimate in sweeping out the Ge even in this moment of weakness (and that's if he's inclined to that route), but we can't just sit on this and pretend that the Ge will do their jobs as previously hoped. Why would they? The current trend is that we're marginalizing and slandering them, peeling off their power and influence even as our stature naturally grows. That will be exacerbated greatly by us winning the day, and then we're left with the breathing space to clean house.

It's far riskier for them to do nothing and fight alongside us for the common win where they will be excluded from the spoils and likely eventually purged rather than sabotaging us such that Chu Yan whom they have an accord and history with wins.

As such, we should watch them with the intensity of a hawk for any step out of line or sign of treachery and minimize their roles where possible to mitigate the damage while not disheartening our troops- and any evidence of them getting up to wrongdoing may be used in the light of victory, too. I also think that it's a good idea in general to not take everyone's intentions at face value in this era and to learn that lesson as early as possible so that we're better at hedging bets...
 
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[X] Coldly Furious. You are furious at being framed and deceived, but you must win tomorrow's battle before you can pursue action against the Ge.
Adhoc vote count started by Thanatosra on Jun 18, 2020 at 12:15 PM, finished with 78 posts and 43 votes.
 
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I have entirely no idea what you're talking about. I'm not saying your option isn't allowed or is wrong, I'm saying it's boring. "We must do the most correct and beneficial thing every time" is a boring way to play quests.

Yes, I absolutely can have it that way as a personal preference. As I said before; roleplay>efficiency.

I don't care that it's not super smart to be sad before a battle, sad fucking happens and you just kinda have to deal with it. I don't know anybody in real life who be like "yeah I can't be sad today I have work."

You can push back or fight your sadness. You can distract yourself. You can't just..
Not feel it in the first place. Optimisation in the sense of "it wouldn't be a good idea to feel things so I'm just not gonna feel things" is absolutely revolting to me.

Planning out how to build your city best? Optimise away.

Troop composition? Gotta get as effective a fighting force as possible.

But this "feelings are bad so let's just not have them" bullshit is crossing a line, for me. A personal line, which is informing my personal vote.

You do whatever you want, of course. I'm just hoping my objections resonate with people.
To explain it in simpler term. You make a case for an argument from authority, that sadness is IC because the Qm has put it forward as an option. Therefore, every other option is on the same level of IC according to your own argument. Making all options equal on the role playing scale, because they are all IC. Going by your argument.

Next point is just plan and utterly wrong. No option is saying Shu feels nothing. This course of action is not even on the table. Your whole argument boils down to a child stumping their feet on the ground and saying what you say is boring, mine is interesting. Such an assessment is wrong. You cannot say one course is boring and expect it to be correct or just be allowed to stand. Make a case for why it's boring. Why should Shu feel sadness right now? Why does he care so much about a woman he talked with two times in private and wrote some letters to?
That people feel sad has not been disputed or that they can feel sadness, just in this case Shu has no obvious reason to. Cry because I want to see him cry is not a good argument.

How is being furious not feeling anything? Cold fury? Even being relieved is an expression of emotion.

You make a strawman case with your comment about all feelings are bad and I don't see anyone stating that except you and then you argue against it as if everyone here proclaims that.
You keep mentioning crying. The vote does not.
[] Saddened. You are depressed and hurt by this betrayal. You thought Maiyu and the Ge as friends, and cannot help but tear up at being used by them.
According to Oxford Dictionary :"to get tears in your eyes "

It has nothing to do with my trust in the QM. Once more please don't insinuate things into my statements or portray my intentions in some way. I speak for myself. This has nothing do to with Gaz. I see no basis in Shu's current character for him to essentially have a minor breakdown over an acquaintance betraying him. I would think him closer to fury than sadness. He just wasn't that close to Maiyu in my mind and I cannot see him tearing up over it. Like said if something truly horrific happened, like Mi or Zhen getting hurt because of him or even dying. Hell yeah, I would vote for a mental breakdown, crying and tearing up. But this, no. I see no basis for it and the argument that all people can feel sadness is just stupid. All people can also feel anger, hate, fury and all people can be patient etc. So what? People have feelings. And? It doesn't explain why Shu should feel sad right now.

I think you have massively misread the options. The only that can even slightly feel like a stoic one is patient. Overall I think it is wrong to proclaim a certain way to decide how someone vote to proclaim as right or wrong. Someone likes going about things the most efficient way, others don't. Some people like to vote for unique options, others don't. You obviously like to vote for roleplay reasons, it's okay, but please refrain from saying other options are bad, boring and whatever else disparaging term you wanna use without a good argument behind it. In this case I think you are dismissing other arguments or points on principle and you cannot expect every quester to be in line your voting principles.

Make a case for an option and not a case against one. Because option A is boring, because I say so convinces no one.
 
[X] Coldly Furious. You are furious at being framed and deceived, but you must win tomorrow's battle before you can pursue action against the Ge.
 
[X] Relieved. Everything starts to make sense, it was never you. The Ge were the true enemy hiding behind Leng Jun and manipulating things to the detriment of all. For the good of Xinshen, you will inform the prefect about your suspicions and act with him together for a brighter future for Xinshen.

Well is not our fault here! is them!!!
 
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