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To Establish Peace - A Romance of the Three Kingdoms Quest

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[X] Zhang Liao's plan - Split your cavalry and send them on hit and run attacks on the groups of bandits still pillaging. Once they are sufficiently weakened, your main force will then advance as well.
-[X] Raid Force 1
--[X]Leader - Zhang Liao
--[X]Sub-leader - Ce Xiang
--[X]Troops -243 Lady Ce Xiang's Bodyguards, Ce Clan Battlemaidens, Ce Mounted Veterans, 3rd Mounted Volunteers
-[X] Raid Force 2
--[X]Leader - Liang Shu
--[X]Sub-leader - Lu Lingqi
--[X]Troops -326 1st Liang Clan Mounted Veterans, 1st Mounted Volunteers, Liang Clan Companions, Lu Family Guard
-[X] Raid Force 3
--[X]Leader - Zhu Fang
--[X]Sub-leader - Bo Ben
--[X]Troops -221 The Boars' Chargers, 3rd Liang Mounted Veterans, 2nd Mounted Volunteers
-[X] Main Force 1
--[X]Leader - Xu Jian
--[X]Sub-leader - Gong Su, Qu Quan
--[X]Troops - 940 Liang 1st Levy, Taiyuan Youxia, 1st Infantry Unit, 1st Axe Infantry, Henei Woodsmen, Liang Guards, 7th Infantry Unit, 2nd Crossbow Unit
-[X] Main Force 2
--[X]Leader - Yu Zhong
--[X]Sub-leader - Liang Da
--[X]Troops - 966 Ce Clan Regulars, Yu Family Levy, Ji Household Recruits, 6th Infantry Unit, Qiancheng Volunteers, Ce An's Students, 1st Crossbow Unit
-[X] Ranged Units
--[X]Leader - Cao Xing
--[X]Sub-leader - Xiang Shi, Bi Guang
--[X]Troops - 640 1st Mounted Scouting Unit, Shangdang Sharpshooters, 1st Archer Unit, 3rd Archer Unit, 4th Archer Unit, 5th Archer Unit, Qiancheng Hunters
 
redzonejoe said:
You'd consider the plan that doesn't exist to be the worst one? Good to know, but that's not Zhang Liao's plan. Cut off foraging? "They'll eat the supplies cost and stick together?" What?!? Where are you getting any of this from?

This is what Zhang Liao says:


The point of raiding isn't to pick off a couple stragglers and let them regroup. Quite the opposite, the raids are meant to hit at the heart of them, and then run down any group that seems to be getting too big or organised.

Of course it's not gonna stay in the middle of a group, it's still hit and run. It's about breaking up formations, leaving them confused and terrified. And then our main force arrives. It won't even be a fight; just clean up.


... Yes that's exactly what the raiding is about. They're disorganized and easy prey to cavalry. So Zhang Liao says let's go ahead with our cavalry while we still can.

I repeat: it is NOT about killing scouts, stragglers, or cutting off supplies (???). Raiding is about sending our cavalry ahead of our infantry to do as much damage as possible while the footmen catch up.

Charge, by contrast, sends "our full might" at them, which obviously includes our thousands of infantry. Charge is about keeping our army together and double-timing it to get to the fight. Raiding is about cavalry taking advantage of their disorganization and keeping it that way.

Zhang Liao knows what he's talking about. I'd you're interpreting his suggestion as being stupid, then you're interpreting it wrong.
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The text is as follows [emphasis added]:

"Whilst they are preoccupied with looting and filling their sacks, a series of raids and skirmishes could destroy their cohesion, and disrupt their unity."
[...]
[] Zhang Liao's plan - Split your cavalry and send them on hit and run attacks on the groups of bandits still pillaging. Once they are sufficiently weakened, your main force will then advance as well.

This is not sending our cavalry plunging for the heart of the enemy in a big crash and then trying to run down the areas of greatest organization. It splits our cavalry into many small groups to harass and skirmish with the similarly small bandit groups that broke off to forage for supplies (ex. livestock) and loot from the myriad of farms and villages over this area. Cavalry is excellent for this role, and certainly I wouldn't consider Zhang Liao to be stupid. These sorts of tactics from a force with superior cavalry make splitting off small foraging/looting parties totally untenable for the one that lacks the mobility, and they're demoralizing as well.

But launching hit and run strikes and skirmishes on the split off looters is inherently swatting at the edges and vulnerable, not at all charging in to destroy the densest cores of their main force as you seem to take it. With all these small groups riding and attacking all over the place in umpteen micro-engagements, they're going to find out in fairly short order that they're under attack and start drawing back these looters to a more consolidated whole for safety- and we would specifically be holding the main force from advancing until we think they're softened up. We know from their success (as evident in being described as an experienced bandit army that defeated two prefects and Kang Ju as well as the current chaos of refugees) that they are already well provisioned from loot, so there's not some drive to *force* them to have to send out these small parties like would be necessary if they were starving and suffer a recurring morale hit from us catching them.

Yes, they'd be rougher for our bloodying them, if we have a superior cavalry there's not really a way for them to punish us back for this and the looters caught out vulnerable would be chastened. But this is not something decisive, this is a plan to soften them up. I think that the ambush strategy plays much more strongly to what disadvantages our foes hold in their greed, confidence and cruelty following their string of victories, and better retains our strength for later. Ambushes are also a must to start developing for all the benefits a reputation in frequent usage yields in making the foe hesitate and brainstorm how you might be tricking them, even if you're not.
 
[X] Zhang Liao's plan - Split your cavalry and send them on hit and run attacks on the groups of bandits still pillaging. Once they are sufficiently weakened, your main force will then advance as well.
-[X] Raid Force 1
--[X]Leader - Zhang Liao
--[X]Sub-leader - Ce Xiang
--[X]Troops -243 Lady Ce Xiang's Bodyguards, Ce Clan Battlemaidens, Ce Mounted Veterans, 3rd Mounted Volunteers
-[X] Raid Force 2
--[X]Leader - Liang Shu
--[X]Sub-leader - Lu Lingqi
--[X]Troops -326 1st Liang Clan Mounted Veterans, 1st Mounted Volunteers, Liang Clan Companions, Lu Family Guard
-[X] Raid Force 3
--[X]Leader - Zhu Fang
--[X]Sub-leader - Bo Ben
--[X]Troops -221 The Boars' Chargers, 3rd Liang Mounted Veterans, 2nd Mounted Volunteers
-[X] Main Force 1
--[X]Leader - Xu Jian
--[X]Sub-leader - Gong Su, Qu Quan
--[X]Troops - 940 Liang 1st Levy, Taiyuan Youxia, 1st Infantry Unit, 1st Axe Infantry, Henei Woodsmen, Liang Guards, 7th Infantry Unit, 2nd Crossbow Unit
-[X] Main Force 2
--[X]Leader - Yu Zhong
--[X]Sub-leader - Liang Da
--[X]Troops - 966 Ce Clan Regulars, Yu Family Levy, Ji Household Recruits, 6th Infantry Unit, Qiancheng Volunteers, Ce An's Students, 1st Crossbow Unit
-[X] Ranged Units
--[X]Leader - Cao Xing
--[X]Sub-leader - Xiang Shi, Bi Guang
--[X]Troops - 640 1st Mounted Scouting Unit, Shangdang Sharpshooters, 1st Archer Unit, 3rd Archer Unit, 4th Archer Unit, 5th Archer Unit, Qiancheng Hunters
 
Realized I didn't actually vote, so here goes for the above reasons.

[X] Yu Zhong's plan -Hide most of your men in a nearby abandoned village off the main road. Have some of your men with your carts of supplies on the main road, and have them feign fear and weakness, and scatter once they see the enemy. Whilst the bandits are busy looting your supplies, spring an ambush against them. May cost you Wealth.
 
[X] Zhang Liao's plan - Split your cavalry and send them on hit and run attacks on the groups of bandits still pillaging. Once they are sufficiently weakened, your main force will then advance as well.
 
[X] Zhang Liao's plan - Split your cavalry and send them on hit and run attacks on the groups of bandits still pillaging. Once they are sufficiently weakened, your main force will then advance as well.
-[X] Raid Force 1
--[X]Leader - Zhang Liao
--[X]Sub-leader - Ce Xiang
--[X]Troops -243 Lady Ce Xiang's Bodyguards, Ce Clan Battlemaidens, Ce Mounted Veterans, 3rd Mounted Volunteers
-[X] Raid Force 2
--[X]Leader - Liang Shu
--[X]Sub-leader - Lu Lingqi
--[X]Troops -326 1st Liang Clan Mounted Veterans, 1st Mounted Volunteers, Liang Clan Companions, Lu Family Guard
-[X] Raid Force 3
--[X]Leader - Zhu Fang
--[X]Sub-leader - Bo Ben
--[X]Troops -221 The Boars' Chargers, 3rd Liang Mounted Veterans, 2nd Mounted Volunteers
-[X] Main Force 1
--[X]Leader - Xu Jian
--[X]Sub-leader - Gong Su, Qu Quan
--[X]Troops - 940 Liang 1st Levy, Taiyuan Youxia, 1st Infantry Unit, 1st Axe Infantry, Henei Woodsmen, Liang Guards, 7th Infantry Unit, 2nd Crossbow Unit
-[X] Main Force 2
--[X]Leader - Yu Zhong
--[X]Sub-leader - Liang Da
--[X]Troops - 966 Ce Clan Regulars, Yu Family Levy, Ji Household Recruits, 6th Infantry Unit, Qiancheng Volunteers, Ce An's Students, 1st Crossbow Unit
-[X] Ranged Units
--[X]Leader - Cao Xing
--[X]Sub-leader - Xiang Shi, Bi Guang
--[X]Troops - 640 1st Mounted Scouting Unit, Shangdang Sharpshooters, 1st Archer Unit, 3rd Archer Unit, 4th Archer Unit, 5th Archer Unit, Qiancheng Hunters
 
This is such a shame. Zhang Liao's plan is better suited to attritional warfare by swatting out their individual looting parties and forcing them to stick together in the face of our own raiders, but split raiders can't do much against a clumped force when they start sticking together and we can't just wait them out when they do clump up. They already outnumber us and have plenty of supplies here, and in the near future a huge mass of bandits will be upon us as Chu Yan rolls into town. We need to find a way to take care of these guys decisively while minimizing our own losses for future battles, baiting them into a trap where we can at once take care of a substantial portion of them capitalizes on their current conditions and disposition far better.
 
Mhm seems like Zhang Liao is the runaway winner but will leave it open till the designated time in case people wanna edit the group comp or there's last minute changes of votes to another plan
 
Ok that's long enough. Vote closed.
Scheduled vote count started by Gaz on Nov 19, 2020 at 9:41 AM, finished with 28 posts and 20 votes.
  • [X] Zhang Liao's plan - Split your cavalry and send them on hit and run attacks on the groups of bandits still pillaging. Once they are sufficiently weakened, your main force will then advance as well.
    -[X] Raid Force 1
    --[X]Leader - Zhang Liao
    --[X]Sub-leader - Ce Xiang
    --[X]Troops -243 Lady Ce Xiang's Bodyguards, Ce Clan Battlemaidens, Ce Mounted Veterans, 3rd Mounted Volunteers
    -[X] Raid Force 2
    --[X]Leader - Liang Shu
    --[X]Sub-leader - Lu Lingqi
    --[X]Troops -326 1st Liang Clan Mounted Veterans, 1st Mounted Volunteers, Liang Clan Companions, Lu Family Guard
    -[X] Raid Force 3
    --[X]Leader - Zhu Fang
    --[X]Sub-leader - Bo Ben
    --[X]Troops -221 The Boars' Chargers, 3rd Liang Mounted Veterans, 2nd Mounted Volunteers
    -[X] Main Force 1
    --[X]Leader - Xu Jian
    --[X]Sub-leader - Gong Su, Qu Quan
    --[X]Troops - 940 Liang 1st Levy, Taiyuan Youxia, 1st Infantry Unit, 1st Axe Infantry, Henei Woodsmen, Liang Guards, 7th Infantry Unit, 2nd Crossbow Unit
    -[X] Main Force 2
    --[X]Leader - Yu Zhong
    --[X]Sub-leader - Liang Da
    --[X]Troops - 966 Ce Clan Regulars, Yu Family Levy, Ji Household Recruits, 6th Infantry Unit, Qiancheng Volunteers, Ce An's Students, 1st Crossbow Unit
    -[X] Ranged Units
    --[X]Leader - Cao Xing
    --[X]Sub-leader - Xiang Shi, Bi Guang
    --[X]Troops - 640 1st Mounted Scouting Unit, Shangdang Sharpshooters, 1st Archer Unit, 3rd Archer Unit, 4th Archer Unit, 5th Archer Unit, Qiancheng Hunters
    [X] Zhang Liao's plan - Split your cavalry and send them on hit and run attacks on the groups of bandits still pillaging. Once they are sufficiently weakened, your main force will then advance as well.
    [X] Zhu Fang's plan
    -[X] Yu Zhong's plan -Hide most of your men in a nearby abandoned village off the main road. Have some of your men with your carts of supplies on the main road, and have them feign fear and weakness, and scatter once they see the enemy. Whilst the bandits are busy looting your supplies, spring an ambush against them. May cost you Wealth.
    --[X] Ambush Force 1
    ---[X] Leader - Zhang Liao
    ---[X]Sub-leader - Qu Quan, Gong Su
    ---[X]Troops - Liang 1st Levy, Taiyuan Youxia, 1st Infantry Unit, 1st Axe Infantry, Henei Woodsmen, Liang Guards, 7th Infantry Unit, 2nd Crossbow Unit
    --[X] Ambush Force 2
    ---[X] Leader - Zhu Fang
    ---[X]Sub-leader - Xu Jian, Bi Guang, Bo Ben
    ---[X]Troops - Ce Clan Regulars, Yu Family Levy, Ji Household Recruits, 6th Infantry Unit, Qiancheng Volunteers, Ce An's Students, 1st Crossbow Unit
    --[X] Ambush Force 3
    ---[X] Leader - Yu Zhong
    ---[X]Sub-leader - Cao Xing, Xing Shi, Liang Da
    ---[X]Troops - 1st Mounted Scouting Unit, Shangdang Sharpshooters, 1st Archer Unit, 3rd Archer Unit, 4th Archer Unit, 5th Archer Unit, Qiancheng Hunters
    --[X] Ambush Cavalry Force
    ---[X] Leader - Liang Shu
    ---[X]Sub-leader - Lu Lingqi, Ce Xiang
    ---[X] Troops - Every Cavalry Unit, except Mounted Scouting Unit
    [X] Zhang Liao's plan - Split your cavalry and send them on hit and run attacks on the groups of bandits still pillaging. Once they are sufficiently weakened, your main force will then advance as well.
    -[X] Raid Force 1
    --[X]Leader - Zhang Liao
    --[X]Sub-leader - Ce Xiang
    --[X]Troops -243 Lady Ce Xiang's Bodyguards, Ce Clan Battlemaidens, Ce Mounted Veterans, 3rd Mounted Volunteers
    -[X] Raid Force 2
    --[X]Leader - Liang Shu
    --[X]Sub-leader - Lu Lingqi
    --[X]Troops -326 1st Liang Clan Mounted
    [X] Yu Zhong's plan -Hide most of your men in a nearby abandoned village off the main road. Have some of your men with your carts of supplies on the main road, and have them feign fear and weakness, and scatter once they see the enemy. Whilst the bandits are busy looting your supplies, spring an ambush against them. May cost you Wealth.
    [x] Zhu Fang's plan - Offense is the best defence. Charge out with your full might and strike them head on.
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Yu Zhong's plan is actually very similar to a strategy Cao Cao used against Wen Chou at the Battle of Baima. Your lack of Wealth however would have maybe made it difficult to make an inciting target to lure the bandits into the trap, or would have increased the DC of the rolls involved at least
 
Gaz said:
Yu Zhong's plan is actually very similar to a strategy Cao Cao used against Wen Chou at the Battle of Baima. Your lack of Wealth however would have maybe made it difficult to make an inciting target to lure the bandits into the trap, or would have increased the DC of the rolls involved at least
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Moral of the story: When fighting bandits, bring lots of cash. :V
 
JAGwin said:
Moral of the story: When fighting bandits, bring lots of cash. :V
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It's kinda all they want, after all!

Not to say that plan would have failed and/or it was a "trap" or anything, it just would have been a bit tricky to succeed, and, well, your guys have good stats, so was still a great choice
 
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Let us ride out and charge towards those piecemeal chunks of Huang Long's force in an effort to shred their morale! Surely, victory is assured!

(Feel free to ask me questions regardless, one way another, until I write up the reply to this decision)
 
Gaz said:
Let us ride out and charge towards those piecemeal chunks of Huang Long's force in an effort to shred their morale! Surely, victory is assured!
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[worry]

Once bandit arc is done I support following the big Dong until we find some very good IC reasons to jump ship. Lika a coalition forming against him but what are the odds?
 
Gaz said:
Let us ride out and charge towards those piecemeal chunks of Huang Long's force in an effort to shred their morale! Surely, victory is assured!

(Feel free to ask me questions regardless, one way another, until I write up the reply to this decision)
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Hmm, have any counties or towns caught behind Bandit zones of control in Bing province lost hope and willing surrendered to the bandit alliance. Or even more damning, sensed the way the wind was going and switched sides to full-fledged support?
 
Gaz said:
Yu Zhong's plan is actually very similar to a strategy Cao Cao used against Wen Chou at the Battle of Baima. Your lack of Wealth however would have maybe made it difficult to make an inciting target to lure the bandits into the trap, or would have increased the DC of the rolls involved at least
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Click to shrink...
Is there a way to make it cheaper with fake loot?

The craftsmen if inspired could do it? Shiny cheap material to make fake treasures?
 
Gaz said:
Let us ride out and charge towards those piecemeal chunks of Huang Long's force in an effort to shred their morale! Surely, victory is assured!

(Feel free to ask me questions regardless, one way another, until I write up the reply to this decision)
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So antsy about this, though I guess I have the harder check you mentioned on the ambush to console me that maybe that was a worse idea than I'd thought. Anyway, what is Shu's favorite meat to eat?
 
Just a suggestion for Gaz (or anyone else doing a similar era project) Dynasty warrior five has a semi-random name generator for body guards that comes up with some interesting names for its people if you ever have a hard time naming NPC's. I got Bu Lu, who ironically used a fan, and Sun Bei a spear wielder\speed popping berserker who really liked to kill steal.
 
mpsoldier said:
Just a suggestion for Gaz (or anyone else doing a similar era project) Dynasty warrior five has a semi-random name generator for body guards that comes up with some interesting names for its people if you ever have a hard time naming NPC's. I got Bu Lu, who ironically used a fan, and Sun Bei a spear wielder\speed popping berserker who really liked to kill steal.
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If you are using a random generator, make sure you are careful if you are also writing their Mandarin name. Total War Three Kingdoms used to fully randomise the names of its generic, random officers. You had names that looked fine in Pinyin, but had Chinese characters that would translate to stuff like "Vagina Face" or "Donkey Shit", or would otherwise give really weird words for family names. Luckily this was patched early on, after a lot of complaints from Chinese players
 
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Presenting the Azure Lances by ElleonXan
  • Sidestory
    • I'm a bit too knackered to create a framing device for this on right now, but this idea wouldn't let me go until I posted it, so...

    *music starts*

    Presenting the Azure Lances,
    They know all war-like stances,
    So don't take any chances,
    Support all their advances,
    They're the Azure Lances.

    Come join our leader Liang Shu,
    And his friends Fang and Zhong,
    If you follow their plans they will never lead you wrong,
    They train you well and good, so they can make you strong,
    All you need do,
    Is sign up too,
    That's why we sing this song.

    We're the Lances Azure,
    Our province we will secure,
    We will be the bandit cure,
    Of that you can be sure,
    We're the Lances Azure.

    Meet Ce Xiang and Lu Lingqi,
    Who are two girls trained for war,
    Cao Xing, his bow does ring,
    Hits all the targets way out far,
    Mu Shun's somewhat quiet,
    Zhang Liao's a rising star,
    Confide free in,
    Our friend Xu Jian,
    Even a bandit, how bizarre.

    We're the Azure Lances,
    We're careful with our finances,
    Under the circumstances,
    We hope our wordplay prances,
    We're the Azure...
    Let me reassure...
    We're not a boor...
    The Azure Lances.
    Join our advances.
     
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