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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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Alright! Let's talk about some of these changes because they are pretty interesting.

yrsillar said:
Changelog:

SSC now partially converts drip XP to domain xp and boosts spirit growth based on bond level

EPC8 has the perception bonus and the final drip xp go permanent

Beast Kings damage has been nerfed all around, but the first tech penalizes enemy perception and hit, eagle gods damage is weakened, but the tech is now short duration and the construct attacks until the tech ends

UGM uses presence for dispels, second tech stacks with itself, so if you keep using it the target is getting chain smacked by up to three attacks per turn

Wind thief has the passives adjusted a bit first tech got initiative boost back, and can be chain cast at lower cost if theirs no gap in activations. SCS loses some offensive utility but if you chain the defensive aspect you get lower cost
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First is Song Seeker's Ceremony. The changes are as follows:
yrsillar said:
...
1/10 of XP gained through permanent cultivation bonuses added to Domain XP
...
-Increases growth rate of bound spirits(effects increasing with Bond Level)
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The first change... is nice, but not really earth-shattering for us. It'll speed up our domain growth depending on our actions (stealth checks, investigating secrets, and composing/performing songs) which is a good buff, as we need all the speed on our domain we can get, but hard to predict and plan for. All in all, I'm happy with it!

However, SSC is not done impressing me, for there was a second change! And that change is a very simple increase to the growth rate to our bound spirits, which increases depending on our bond with them. To me, this is a pretty big change, and I'm ecstatic to see it. While we have yet to see hard mechanics underlying the growth rate of our spirits, narratively this will be extremely helpful in keeping our spirits abreast with our rapid cultivation. Sixiang, Hanyi, and Zhengui all having their growth rate increasing should mean that their cultivation levels will be stronger, their techniques will be stronger (if nothing else due to increased potency) which means that they will be all the more valuable in fights or social situations.

It's hard to say how much this ability will help their growth rate, but I'm excited to see what it can do!

Next, we have the EPC changes. I mean, it says it on the tin there so I'm not going to spend too much time talking about these improvements. More permanents are nice!

Beast Kings' Savage Dirge is next, and it... kind of got nerfed? The damage has unequivocally been reduced, but other aspects to it have been added which make it really work with Ling Qi's current style. Primal War Calling has been reduced to D damage, but now the perception and hit of opponent's trapped in the roaring, raging, rampaging beasts has been decreased. This plays phenomenally well with PLR's main tech, which is a perception gate, and the new PLR tech we got which is another preception gate. Finding us in the cacophony we create will be hard enough, let alone getting a hit in with their attacks. So while the damage got hit with the nerf bat, the ultimate changes mean that it works a lot better with the other arts Ling Qi is running around with.

The second technique of Beast Kings' Savage Dirge has also been modified. The length of the technique has been expanded, but the ultimate damage of the phantasmal eagle has decreased. Which is fine, because the eagle can keep making attacks and dragging a chosen target away from the fight. Extremely frustrating for any brawler character who needs to be in close range to fight. Additionally, it can be used to keep a target close to Zhengui who loves having enemies close and focused on him.

Ultimate Glacier's March is next. The cool thing is that it now uses presence for its dispells, which is helpful in the long run. Right now our presence is pretty... lackluster, but given our social requirements that is more likely to change than our intelligence stat. The second tech also now chains with itself which means that, even if the damage doesn't repeat, we are able to push a person back multiple times with each activation. Given our mobility... we will be exceptional at pushing individuals towards things that they don't want to be near, or even away from us if they want to close the distance.

Last, but certainly not least, is Laughing Flight of the Wind Thief changes. The major points here, I believe, are the reduced cost to subsequent activations of its first and third tech. Both of which reduce the activation cost by a full rank or more. Given our larger than normal reserves of qi, this means these powerful expensive techniques can be spammed for even more safety and mobility. Catching us with LFotWT up and running will be... exceptionally difficult for our peers, and almost impossible for anyone beneath us in cultivation.

All in all, I like the changes, and I can't wait to see how these arts play out in Ling Qi's kit!
 
So I did a poll on discord for which new arts people are most excited for but I kinda wanna redo it, in light of BKSD being nerfed...I can actually do it on here now that voting is over and I won't be interrupting the flow of particular conversations. So let's vote!
Poll: Which Art are You Most Excited for?
Coldstar Blade = Funny
Starless Night Reflection= Insightful
Beast King's Savage Dirge = Like
Glacial March = Informative
Vengeful River King = Hugs
 
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Lena27 said:
So I did a poll on discord for which new arts people are most excited for but I kinda wanna redo it, in light of BKSD being nerfed...I can actually do it on here now that voting is over and I won't be interrupting the flow of particular conversations. So let's vote!
Poll: Which Art are You Most Excited for?
Coldstar Blade = Funny
Starless Night Reflection= Insightful
Beast King's Savage Dire = Like
Glacial March = Informative
Vengeful River King = Hugs
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You could include LFWT as well, although I suspect it would win pretty easily if you did.
 
Man, I kinda want another dance art. We've been putting all this work into dance to make PLR usable, and that's all we're using it for. Actually, thinking about it, if VRKG was dance that could fit really well and be really cool :(

(and yes, I know scs picked up the dance keyword but let's be honest... It's not really a dance art)
 
New bonus chapter up on Royal Road.

The Sage Emperor really was quite the serial rapist... then again I suppose being raised by dragons you're taught to take what you want and worry about the consequences never.
 
query said:
New bonus chapter up on Royal Road.

The Sage Emperor really was quite the serial rapist... then again I suppose being raised by dragons you're taught to take what you want and worry about the consequences never.
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Dragon Mom doesn't seem to understand the problem

yrsillar said:
Simply understand that to a dragon, there is no such thing as an equal. All things either stand above it or beneath it," he explained. "In older dragons, who spend much time with humans, this might be curbed, but with a young dragon… You must either behave with utter subservience, or be completely domineering. Anything else will confuse and irritate him, inciting a challenge to determine your relative positions," Gu Tai sounded rather sure of himself, it did sound like he was speaking from experience rather than reciting from a book.
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Turns out inhuman motivations filtered through a human can fuck up relations between humans!
 
I'm a bit surprised so many people are routing for Coldstar Blade. I really do see why people like Coldstar Blade, it is really cool but... I just don't see it fitting into our build. I suppose if we can use our throwing knives with it...but CtE is already powerful enough as our close-up attack. And our build...like, our entire schtick is ranged attacks/ AoE while obscuring our presence and dodging attacks. We have CtE in case we need to end fights quickly with a more direct attack. While Coldstar Blade is also about direct attacks, its does less damage than CtE, even while stacking over time. We can also scale our damage with FSS though so it seems a bit redundant. Don't get me wrong, I know we need to become at least moderately proficient in a melee weapon eventually--CRX said so. Its why I figured we'd see what library arts are available. However, among the epic Green 3 arts we've been given, I figured selecting one that actually fits with our build would be wiser.
Also if we manage to use the art with our throwing knives, we would have to stop using it in battle once we run out of knives--that's not an issue we have with any of our other arts. All we need for the others is our qi and usually our flute. I suppose we could retrieve our knives mid-battle but that's impractical for more than one reason, none of which I feel need to be pointed out...

Also SNR fits so much better thematically.
 
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My basic reasoning is this: we're at school to get a good general foundation, not just to rush combat skills. For a good general foundation, she needs a blade art. Coldstar is currently the only blade art available, so I go 'yes, good, blade art.' Given the way archive diving works, and our need to find social and other arts there, I see Coldstar as the most efficient blade-training method we have available.

That said, if I'm misunderstanding how easy it is to get a good blade art and a good social art and the successor arts we need from one archive dive, that would be great. I think a different blade art would suit her better.

I don't really see how we can fit it into the schedule, given the four or five extremely wonderful arts we need to cultivate first. But I still like it.
 
Wysteria said:
My basic reasoning is this: we're at school to get a good general foundation, not just to rush combat skills. For a good general foundation, she needs a blade art. Coldstar is currently the only blade art available, so I go 'yes, good, blade art.' Given the way archive diving works, and our need to find social and other arts there, I see Coldstar as the most efficient blade-training method we have available.

That said, if I'm misunderstanding how easy it is to get a good blade art and a good social art and the successor arts we need from one archive dive, that would be great. I think a different blade art would suit her better.

I don't really see how we can fit it into the schedule, given the four or five extremely wonderful arts we need to cultivate first. But I still like it.
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To be clear, what we need for formal requirements isn't a blade art, it's skill equivalent to mortal mastery of any of the 4 Noble Weapons, which do include swords. This can easily be attained without an art.
 
065tdsa said:
To be clear, what we need for formal requirements isn't a blade art, it's skill equivalent to mortal mastery of any of the 4 Noble Weapons, which do include swords. This can easily be attained without an art.
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What are the 4 Noble weapons again? Sword, rapier, spear...and something else. Or maybe I'm wrong about the first three too, lol.
 
Wysteria said:
I really want to art-edit coldstar blade to be a dance art. Or get a blade dancer art in general.
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Mmm, I'm sceptical because while I could totally see a dance version working, the art is specifically a sword art. It feels like trying to change that would break things.

But, if @yrsillar says that we would be able to do that, then yeah, that could definitely be a cool thing to do in g4.
 
Erebeal said:
Mmm, I'm sceptical because while I could totally see a dance version working, the art is specifically a sword art. It feels like trying to change that would break things.

But, if @yrsillar says that we would be able to do that, then yeah, that could definitely be a cool thing to do in g4.
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Thematically, I think we wouldn't directly replace blades with dance, we'd be adapting it from a straight fighting art into a fighting dance? Combo power.

In LQ's copious free time, naturally.
 
Yeah at some point we should probably spend a bit of time getting mortal-level proficient with a melee weapon. But frankly, I think that's all we need. While being badass with a blade is always nice, LQ clearly can be a badass and kick ass in other ways. Devote actual cultivation to those other ways. As for melee skills? I'd say farthest we could reasonably take that is with a Green 1 art. Anything else would be too time consuming to be worth it, when we consider how packed LQ's schedule is. Lets not forget, we're on Cai Mom's clock to progress here.
 
Lena27 said:
I'm a bit surprised so many people are routing for Coldstar Blade. I really do see why people like Coldstar Blade, it is really cool but... I just don't see it fitting into our build. I suppose if we can use our throwing knives with it...but CtE is already powerful enough as our close-up attack. And our build...like, our entire schtick is ranged attacks/ AoE while obscuring our presence and dodging attacks. We have CtE in case we need to end fights quickly with a more direct attack. While Coldstar Blade is also about direct attacks, its does less damage than CtE, even while stacking over time. We can also scale our damage with FSS though so it seems a bit redundant. Don't get me wrong, I know we need to become at least moderately proficient in a melee weapon eventually--CRX said so. Its why I figured we'd see what library arts are available. However, among the epic Green 3 arts we've been given, I figured selecting one that actually fits with our build would be wiser.
Also if we manage to use the art with our throwing knives, we would have to stop using it in battle once we run out of knives--that's not an issue we have with any of our other arts. All we need for the others is our qi and usually our flute. I suppose we could retrieve our knives mid-battle but that's impractical for more than one reason, none of which I feel need to be pointed out...

Also SNR fits so much better thematically.
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My reasoning for liking CB is mostly liking the Contrast Keyword.

Like, we're Cold, but we have Zhengui.

We took FSS, and took an optimistic Insight about Beginnings from it so contrary to the original Nature of its originator that Zeqing cracked when we shared it with her.

I also like the idea of the Frozen Sun Sect.

I strongly suspect there is are Weilu Sun-Moon arts out there, and if there's a source for Yin Sun arts to practice our Sun element, the Frozen Sun Sect has them.
 
OneArmedYeti said:
My reasoning for liking CB is mostly liking the Contrast Keyword.

Like, we're Cold, but we have Zhengui.

We took FSS, and took an optimistic Insight about Beginnings from it so contrary to the original Nature of its originator that Zeqing cracked when we shared it with her.

I also like the idea of the Frozen Sun Sect.

I strongly suspect there is are Weilu Sun-Moon arts out there, and if there's a source for Yin Sun arts to practice our Sun element, the Frozen Sun Sect has them.
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Yeah I like it too. Unfortunately it doesn't change the fact that other options work better with our build in terms of synergy and thematics. It's a shame but hopefully Biyu will take it up or something. Right now we can all take comfort in the fact that even if there's no Contrast keyword, the other arts are still pretty epic in other ways.
 
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Lena27 said:
Yeah I like it too. Unfortunately it doesn't change the fact that other options work better with our build in terms of synergy and thematics. It's a shame but hopefully Biyu will take it up or something. Right now we can all take comfort in the fact that even if there's no Contrast keyword, the other arts are still pretty epic in other ways.
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Oh, I don't like it NOW.

I want to take it the turn before we hit Green 4, then Master it and Modify that Blades Keyword into Music.

A song about how frigid cold is transmuted into burning heat? That'll have nuts synergy with FSS or a successor for it.
 
yrsillar said:
Okay we now have the inevitable changelog to newly introduced arts, rebalancing and fixing unclear effects

Changelog:

SSC now partially converts drip XP to domain xp and boosts spirit growth based on bond level

EPC8 has the perception bonus and the final drip xp go permanent

Beast Kings damage has been nerfed all around, but the first tech penalizes enemy perception and hit, eagle gods damage is weakened, but the tech is now short duration and the construct attacks until the tech ends

UGM uses presence for dispels, second tech stacks with itself, so if you keep using it the target is getting chain smacked by up to three attacks per turn

Wind thief has the passives adjusted a bit first tech got initiative boost back, and can be chain cast at lower cost if theirs no gap in activations. SCS loses some offensive utility but if you chain the defensive aspect you get lower cost
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Okay, I've had a bit of time to digest these changes. Now, time to complain. Tagging @yrsillar for extra visibility.

SSC: the drip XP to domain XP conversion is a thematically and mechanically welcome addition, both for cultivation arts in general and especially Ling Qi's bespoke great-spirit provided art. The explicit spirit growth boost gives me pause, but at the same time I just sort of assumed it was true, so it's just a personal taste thing in having it explicit spelled out.

EPC8: I figured this was already true, or would happen when we actually got around to learning SSC, no complaints here.

Beast King: I have a lot more to say about these changes, mostly on the issue of themes and distinctiveness from other arts, but also some balance.

Primal War Calling's damage reduction doesn't bother me because the art has such a large range, attacks everyone on a recurring basis with no additional needed input from the user, imposes two "stacks" of no-save multi-attacker penalty on all of those targets, and retaliates with multiple attacks against dispel attempts against one of our main art vectors. The new perception penalty doesn't fit the arts themes very well in my opinion because it's a story of open warfare, and it shoehorns the kind of support the art provides in a direction that is less universal. I have less of a problem with the attack penalty, but it's still a lot- now imposing blanket attack and defence penalties on all enemies in Far range. This pair of effects also steps on the toes of PLR, which penalizes enemy perception and interferes with their attacks(at least targeted towards Ling Qi). My proposal is keep the lowered damage, but instead of the other two effects, give the technique an extra attack against targets that do not have an ally of their own within Adjacent or Near range(your discretion). This fits the theming of an overwhelming horde of critters pretty well- without someone to have your back against the tide, inside the tumult of warfare, you suffer. It's also synergistic with Eagle and with PLR's Lunatic Whirl in a much more interesting way than simply reproducing effects. One art creates openings for the other art to perform better. The extra attack counting as another 2 attackers would be too much, but if it counts as 1 for a total of 3, (and 2 D damage attacks) then you've got a significant effect which falls short of the OP C damage was, especially because enemies can respond with tactics creating a real contest.

Reducing Eagle God's Defiance single-target hit from B to C damage was the right move, but I don't like the duration increase at all. It doesn't fit with the theme of the technique as the eagle's attack being a reckless prelude to the main clash if it hangs around for a Short while. The Eagle fading after its bold attack is poignant, and it's a shame to lose that contrast. I question if that kind of buff is necessary, too. By default it's attacking everyone in 100m with C rank damage that inflicts a significant debuff, then it attacks a single target for another C rank damage plus a significant push in any direction we want, and finally triggers the art's first tech action-free as a follow-up which benefits from the earlier debuff. In terms of action economy the move, and art, is already pretty strong. I'm wary of a second "set and forget" effect in what is a strong art already. If we want to drag someone around with precision, then we should have to dedicate the time and focus to do so, for a meaningful tactical benefit. Giving Eagle God's Defiance duration arguably makes it stronger than when it had B damage, and it treads on the distinctiveness of both PLR and UGM. It might be okay if we had to spend additional qi for follow-up drags, because it really is a potent effect and C damage attacks aren't nothing.

I have a general concern with Ling Qi easily setting up a half dozen duration effects that make her way too strong- as proposed this is getting 3-ish exchanges of two C rank techs in play, with one "move", at level one of the art. Gaining strength with buildup is fine, but there's no way to interrupt this, so it's just "up". It's also creating 2 discrete effects for enemy dispellers to worry about, both triggering retaliatory PWC attacks.

UGM: Much less to say. Presence for dispels might have been nice to grow into, thematically and narratively, but it's fine if you weren't dedicated to the previous hint to that effect. I continue to be wary of hands-free tech stacking, so I'm skeptical of how well the effects of the second tech can be kept under control. The saving grace is that an enemy who dodges the hit or blunts the damage without injury doesn't get pushed, which stalls out the stacking pretty quickly. Ironically, per the text, slower enemies are inherently more resilient to this art than faster ones, since the half-speed requirement for both parties means Ling Qi chases them down faster and gets stuck unable to trigger additional instances.

Wind Thief: No comment on the passives or initiative being added to the first tech. G damage reduction feels like too much on the first level of a hugely mobility and avoid focused tech, H damage reduction was fine. A cost reduction on immediate re-cast is fine, but D qi cost just seems inappropriate under any circumstances for a B rank technique of this potency that already has a Long duration.

SCS has arguably gained offensive utility for Ling Qi in particular since the "physical attack" is now just "attack" and Ling Qi uses primarily spiritual attacks. For the cost reduction on chaining, the wording is ambiguous. "If used defensively, recurring activation of this technique in the same scene have their qi cost reduced to C rank. " implies that the cost reduction lasts for the whole scene, not just consecutive chain-casting of just SCS. If this is the case, it mostly supplants the use of PLR's semi-perfect dodge tech EDD, which would be bad. It should only work on truly consecutive uses, and I'd even argue it should be capped at 3 in a row or something.


Anyway, there's my critiques.

Edit: quick supplementary reasoning on Primal War Calling. Keeping track of a lot of small-moderate buffs/debuffs from one tech seems like a pain in the butt, so why not just stack the beasts hitting everything and multi-attacker angle, in a thematically appropriate context? It's less to book keep, at least in my head. I also like a War art punishing people for not teamworking.
 
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