Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Thanks for the response, I'll respond in the same numbered format for the sake of ease.
1) The first chunk of the plan is just to get on the other side of them and sabotage routes without being personally detected, and depending on Ling Qi's judgement, it's either freezing crap or letting Zhengui mess with plants or dig holes or something. She's got maps, she can figure it out.
2) I didn't specify when to build up FVM during approach cause I figured Ling Qi could figure that out herself.
3) I specified using PLR for disruption against leaders exactly because it only targets 3 at a time up to 6. It's probably decent at catching stragglers running away, especially because Ling Qi herself is so fast. It also replenishes Ling Qi's qi now, which is nice. Whole-group capture is definitely FVM's jam.
4) @Arkeus already pointed it out, but Travelers End boosted Dissonance is going to kill the heck out of Reds/Yellows. If something spooky happens and Ling Qi thinks collapsing her mists is a good idea, all power to her. It isn't something I felt like I needed to specify though. You can look at my plan as a series of mission statements that should, in the case of the unexpected, inform her reaction rather than instruct it per se.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
Very well then.
[X] Plan Control and Capture
Hopefully this works
[X] Plan Control and Capture
Hopefully this works
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Plan: The Night Parade of One Thousand Demons - Final Mix
- Location
- New York
[X] Plan: The Night Parade of One Thousand Demons - Final Mix
I think I'll choose this. Both plans have their strong points. But I've always been the type to try to take away the opponents abilities to be active and force them to be reactive. I just think that if all we do is set up things ahead of them it gives them too much power and choices. Might be wrong, but playing to our strengths just seems smart. Also, I think people are discounting how damn hard it would be for most to escape us, and how easily we set up our attack. Like legitimately only the greens will be able to do something to our mist, and only with great difficulty. Especially if we add PLO and over things like that.
I think I'll choose this. Both plans have their strong points. But I've always been the type to try to take away the opponents abilities to be active and force them to be reactive. I just think that if all we do is set up things ahead of them it gives them too much power and choices. Might be wrong, but playing to our strengths just seems smart. Also, I think people are discounting how damn hard it would be for most to escape us, and how easily we set up our attack. Like legitimately only the greens will be able to do something to our mist, and only with great difficulty. Especially if we add PLO and over things like that.
Kai Merah
Hound Hearted Hedonist
- Location
- Somewhere in the corners of my imagination
I kind of disagree with this? I think this might be where we see the plans differently. If Ling Qi approaches under stealth and manages to snare the whole force in the mist, which is what I think Parade is aiming for, only the Greens should stand a chance of running away, and if they run, we can run after them, dragging the mooks with us if necessary. After all, mooks should be thoroughly trapped in our mist, and if our mist moves with us, they'll get dragged along too.
- Location
- Yes
[X] Plan: The Night Parade of One Thousand Demons - Final Mix
[X] Plan: The Night Parade of One Thousand Demons - Final Mix
I'm not sure if this has come up in the discussion (it probably has), but what contingencies do we have if the known group isn't merely fleeing for the border, but rendezvousing with another, or a contact with the instigator of this shenaniganry? There's always the potential for unknown forces beyond the scope of our intel that I think it would be wise to consider.
Traveler's End and then just fighting for Ling Qis life against the remainder until reinforcements arrive.
Theres really no other contingency for such a situation to begin with to be frank.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
"Fall back to ordered retreat and hope to hell we can get to safety".
There's only so much that can be done if we're that outclassed or outmaneuvered, and throwing our life away on a forlorn hope isn't acceptable. A dead retainer isn't useful anymore, and trying to stop a reinforcement group on top of what was already a tall order to contain is crossing that line pretty thoroughly.
- Location
- California
Setting up things ahead of them is only a part of the plan. We'll still be inside the mist with our spirits attacking and stalling the enemy as long as no one escapes. Ling Qi could also detonate Traveler's End if she finds it necessary, even though it's not specified in the plan.
I think the source of confusion here is the ambiguity of C&C. I personally think that this ambiguity is good, as it allows Ling Qi to adapt to the situation. I can see how it could be argued otherwise.
One of the most likely lose conditions for us is for the enemy to escape with the cargo. A Green running out of our mist and escaping is a very real possibility, while we shouldn't completely discount the possibility of Yellows and Reds having brought some tools to deal with it either. Night Parade doesn't really provide a clear way of dealing with this outside of detonating TE. I think C&C's solution is more sustainable. Ling Qi has no contingencies in Night Parade for what to do if stragglers escape with the goods after the detonation.
EDIT: Based on discussion on Discord, it seems like it will be pretty difficult to escape unnoticed after TE in Alectai's plan. They're on marshland and Ling Qi will have perception arts active.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
(Shrug).
It's unknowable.
There is no such thing as a perfect plan because we have literally zero idea of what the enemy force has, can prepare, or can be reinforced by--it's the nightmare scenario from a planning point of view, and it's driven me to madness and back.
But a perfect plan's never going to exist, every possibility has fail states. And C&C's solution potentially delays our reinforcements through the same mechanism it tries to delay the bandits by, which ultimately leads to our situation not actually improving on the whole.
The fail states of Night Parade are ones that would be a problem in any strategy (Just overpowered, enemy has bullshit hax to shut down all of our control effects, they're just too determined to be delayed by external forces and ignore perception filters). More importantly, it has a contingency for things going wrong that gives us a chance to book it or shift to another strategy. Control... Doesn't actually, it just denies the possibility that the enemy can interfere with us at all, or that our obstructions could possibly delay our reinforcements as well.
It's unknowable.
There is no such thing as a perfect plan because we have literally zero idea of what the enemy force has, can prepare, or can be reinforced by--it's the nightmare scenario from a planning point of view, and it's driven me to madness and back.
But a perfect plan's never going to exist, every possibility has fail states. And C&C's solution potentially delays our reinforcements through the same mechanism it tries to delay the bandits by, which ultimately leads to our situation not actually improving on the whole.
The fail states of Night Parade are ones that would be a problem in any strategy (Just overpowered, enemy has bullshit hax to shut down all of our control effects, they're just too determined to be delayed by external forces and ignore perception filters). More importantly, it has a contingency for things going wrong that gives us a chance to book it or shift to another strategy. Control... Doesn't actually, it just denies the possibility that the enemy can interfere with us at all, or that our obstructions could possibly delay our reinforcements as well.
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[X] Plan: The Night Parade of One Thousand Demons - Final Mix
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
Not really. If Ling Qi gets so close that she can snare everyone in the mist before she puts up the mist at all not only it makes her vulnerable (not many defences) and assume we get the stealth to do it, but it doesn't actually mean no one can escape. As long as one of the green or even a yellow has a AoE movement /+perception art, or even a special dispel, they can get a significant part of the group to escape.
FVM is good at making it hard for people to run, but it's not perfect for that, and we can't even count on putting FVM up completely before they know we are here.
Control believes that the risk lies in them being able to run, so makes contingencies for them being able to run away. Parade believes the risk lies in them hitting us hard, so makes contingencies about it.
Control doesn't make contingencies for them hitting us hard, and Parade doesn't make contingencies for them running. They both assume Ling Qi can do 'one thing' well, they just don't agree on what that thing is.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Well, yeah, that's basically the issue here. If our perception filters are perfectly countered, we don't actually have the tools to slow them down much if they're determined to flee? Not without making it harder for our reinforcements to arrive?
Like, how does Control actually stop them if we're taking "FVM can't delay or control them" as an axiom? The terrain being bad is something they've already accounted for as marshland isn't much worse than a snowy mountain, FVM isn't an obstacle if you're correct and they can just run an area perception art to ignore the perception filter, and we refuse to commit so they can just soak our strikes and keep going, leaving the wounded behind--and if we're moving forward and attacking the terrain, they can just ignore the FVM mist (Because they ran an area perception art to perfectly counter being contained you know), and use movement arts to ignore the icy ground.
If our very best tool at crowd control is useless at the one thing it should be best at doing, then we're already fucked. And that doesn't become more or less true for any plan we take.
Like, how does Control actually stop them if we're taking "FVM can't delay or control them" as an axiom? The terrain being bad is something they've already accounted for as marshland isn't much worse than a snowy mountain, FVM isn't an obstacle if you're correct and they can just run an area perception art to ignore the perception filter, and we refuse to commit so they can just soak our strikes and keep going, leaving the wounded behind--and if we're moving forward and attacking the terrain, they can just ignore the FVM mist (Because they ran an area perception art to perfectly counter being contained you know), and use movement arts to ignore the icy ground.
If our very best tool at crowd control is useless at the one thing it should be best at doing, then we're already fucked. And that doesn't become more or less true for any plan we take.
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- Location
- New York
People keep saying that but I'm not seeing it. You do realize our range for FVM is actually really large? Like it's not some small thing. Also the control puts us out of the way. We aren't directly on the scene. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it sounds like we lay traps and harassment, while watching to make sure none leave. But it's too hands off for my taste. Also again, FVM is decently hard to escape from, and we will know if one escapes, it's unlikely they can fully escape us. In all honesty the first plan puts us in the most danger, but it also forces the confrontation. Makes them go to our pace.
Unless theyve got some kind of Green Relevant long range sniper dispel thats pretty much irrelevant.
A metal melee combatant and an illusion type arent going to have that kind of range.