Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
If the alternate bases option is chosen, there will be more raids, more conflict and greater casualties. Because the roads will be less safe. Which then will increase tue burden of the judicial system.

And that's just fact.

Okay, if you are so adamant about your "facts" I would like you to quote me a passage of text from the story that states that there DEFINITELY will be raids. As far as I remember, we are talking about possibilities here.
It is possible that the road is attacked by either the clouds, bad actors or even roaming spirits.
It is possible that it never happens.

Just as with our thief vote way back when. Just because we choose the point closest to the enemy, with the highest risk, does not automatically mean there will be any attack whatsoever ...

These posting along the road my very well never see any action.

The alternating Post may very well provide the necessary protection and deterrent. To use your method of arguing, 'The Possibility that the option is sufficient, is a fact.'

I choose to believe that it is sufficient and that we don't need to waste favors for questionable gains.
 
[X] Suggest alternating road outposts along the unclaimed length. But allow basing for patrols at each other's outposts, for rest and recuperation. (Minimal contact, no favorability cost, due to successes thus far.)

How much do we really care about the road itself?
 
Okay, if you are so adamant about your "facts" I would like you to quote me a passage of text from the story that states that there DEFINITELY will be raids. As far as I remember, we are talking about possibilities here.
It is possible that the road is attacked by either the clouds, bad actors or even roaming spirits.
It is possible that it never happens.


Just as with our thief vote way back when. Just because we choose the point closest to the enemy, with the highest risk, does not automatically mean there will be any attack whatsoever ...

These posting along the road my very well never see any action.

The alternating Post may very well provide the necessary protection and deterrent. To use your method of arguing, 'The Possibility that the option is sufficient, is a fact.'

I choose to believe that it is sufficient and that we don't need to waste favors for questionable gains.

...going, "Prove that road security is going to be a problem" feels a bit foolish.

Like, road security in safe provinces that have been Imperial for thousands of years is a problem.

Honestly proving that there will never be attacks or trouble on the roads is the actual claim that needs to be demonstrated, because the baseline is that, yes, there are sometimes bandits and monsters on the road. Any road. Anywhere in the entire Empire.

E: To clarify that doesn't mean, "Therefore we need to vote for the higher security option" just that, "Well, what if nobody ever attacks anyone on the road" is a silly rejoinder.
 
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Okay, if you are so adamant about your "facts" I would like you to quote me a passage of text from the story that states that there DEFINITELY will be raids. As far as I remember, we are talking about possibilities here.
It is possible that the road is attacked by either the clouds, bad actors or even roaming spirits.
It is possible that it never happens.

Just as with our thief vote way back when. Just because we choose the point closest to the enemy, with the highest risk, does not automatically mean there will be any attack whatsoever ...

These posting along the road my very well never see any action.

The alternating Post may very well provide the necessary protection and deterrent. To use your method of arguing, 'The Possibility that the option is sufficient, is a fact.'

I choose to believe that it is sufficient and that we don't need to waste favors for questionable gains.
For reference, one of the most stable, and pacified provinces - the Thousand Lakes, has an entire branch of the Bai dedicated to road safety. And they don't have to worry about border incursions anymore either.
 
For reference, one of the most stable, and pacified provinces - the Thousand Lakes, has an entire branch of the Bai dedicated to road safety. And they don't have to worry about border incursions anymore either.

the wog you are referring to:
"It is when you live in a death world with relatively sparse settlement
green's are the guys who are expected to regularly comb the in between spaces for new gribblies and to make sure the roads and wardings aren't breaking down."

They don't patrol the roads, they hunt the unclaimed land in between for stuff that grow too big and do maintenance.

...going, "Prove that road security is going to be a problem" feels a bit foolish.
Saying "we need more security or people die, when the current may very well be sufficient" feels a bit foolish.
That is what I was going for with my post if you want to paraphrase it to a single sentence.
 
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[X] Suggest alternating road outposts along the unclaimed length. But allow basing for patrols at each other's outposts, for rest and recuperation. (Minimal contact, no favorability cost, due to successes thus far.)
 
[X] Suggest alternating road outposts along the unclaimed length. But allow basing for patrols at each other's outposts, for rest and recuperation. (Minimal contact, no favorability cost, due to successes thus far.)
 
the wog you are referring to:
"It is when you live in a death world with relatively sparse settlement
green's are the guys who are expected to regularly comb the in between spaces for new gribblies and to make sure the roads and wardings aren't breaking down."

They don't patrol the roads, they hunt the unclaimed land in between for stuff that grow too big and do maintenance.


Saying "we need more security or people die, when the current may very well be sufficient" feels a bit foolish.
That is what I was going for with my post if you want to paraphrase it to a single sentence.

Well I guess I'll believe you and not the phrases where you were like, "Prove there's ever going to be anyone attacked on that road at any point ever."

"There's enough protection on the road, it's sufficient" is not the same thing as, "It is possible that it [people on the road being attacked] never happens."
 
Well I guess I'll believe you and not the phrases where you were like, "Prove there's ever going to be anyone attacked on that road at any point ever."

"There's enough protection on the road, it's sufficient" is not the same thing as, "It is possible that it [people on the road being attacked] never happens."

Okay, let me take it step by step ...

If the alternate bases option is chosen, there will be more raids, more conflict and greater casualties. Because the roads will be less safe. Which then will increase tue burden of the judicial system.
And that's just fact.
It is a statement declaring that there will be more raids if we go with the lesser security.
My Question is an exaggeration on his statement that it is an undisputed "fact" that more raids will occur as a direct result of us voting "wrong".
Okay, if you are so adamant about your "facts" I would like you to quote me a passage of text from the story that states that there DEFINITELY will be raids. As far as I remember, we are talking about possibilities here.

When you read the next part of my post
It is possible that the road is attacked by either the clouds, bad actors or even roaming spirits.
It is possible that it never happens.
I accept the possibility of their being dangers to the road.
I mean:

The alternating Post may very well provide the necessary protection and deterrent.
Sounds to me like "There's enough protection on the road, it's sufficient"
 
Okay, if you are so adamant about your "facts" I would like you to quote me a passage of text from the story that states that there DEFINITELY will be raids. As far as I remember, we are talking about possibilities here.
It is possible that the road is attacked by either the clouds, bad actors or even roaming spirits.
It is possible that it never happens.

Just as with our thief vote way back when. Just because we choose the point closest to the enemy, with the highest risk, does not automatically mean there will be any attack whatsoever ...

These posting along the road my very well never see any action.

The alternating Post may very well provide the necessary protection and deterrent. To use your method of arguing, 'The Possibility that the option is sufficient, is a fact.'

I choose to believe that it is sufficient and that we don't need to waste favors for questionable gains.

...I honestly don't know how to further argue that the option explicitly defined by WoG as safer is safer.
What do you even think that means? If an option is less safe it means that the number of attacks or the severity of the damage and casualities will be greater. By definition.
Claiming that the explicitly less safe option may not suffer any attacks whatsoever is absurd. What would even be the point of the two differents options then? I find the argument extremely disingenuous.

Ok, I can't provide an study on the expected percentil increase on the number of raids.
But you can't prove that the alternate option will provide sufficient safety either. Saying "Hey, who knows, maybe nothing bad will ever happen" is nonsense. By that logic, we may not place any based at all because "These posting along the road my very well never see any action".

If the options came with an "attack event threshold", with the alternate having a 60% chance and the shared a 30% or something like that, we could discuss the worth of that change. But they didn't, so we can only go by the WoG that one is safer than the other.

One of the main advantages of the shared bases isn't even the increased safety, is the faster identification of Cloud Tribes. Distrust among the imperials will make them suspect of any raiding attack as being organised by the WS. If there is WS personel on all the bases, then the tribes can be more easily identified, and it will be harder to suspect the WS since they wouldn't attack their own people.

You can argue that those advantages aren't worth a WP and PT favor, but not that those advantages don't actually exist and that we'll get them with the alternate option anyway.
For me, they very much are worth it.

People are almost panicking now that we are going into the cultural section. Sure, the cultural votes will be harsh, but we are coming in doing great.
We haven't lost yet any WP favor thanks to Jaromilla's roll, and we may even dodge this blow as well.
The MoI is as high as it was reasonable to get them, and we even increased Cao Chun personal bond!
We have increased PT favor a couple of times, including another Jaromilla roll. So that's actually a favor point we got from free.

So taking this vote increase the safety of the soldiers (again, by WoG), advances Ling Qi's agenda of cultural mingling (giving us more leeway in the cultural vote as the goal partially accomplished) and reduces the number of conflicts the judicial system will have to deal with.
Those are excellent gains that we only have a chance to grab thanks to Koliada's revelation, so we should take the opportunity and secure them.
 
Unrelated, thinking about the whole, "restrictions on where Higher Realms can go to fight stuff" thing, and how that might effect Ling Qi, I do also kind of wonder if Ling Qi does wind up climbing up to 8th Realm what it'd look like from outside, from someone like Jaromila who isn't taught that these things just happen. What if Ling Qi does seem to change/narrow/lose herself somewhere on the road of life?

Like it hasn't really mattered before now, because 'out of culture friendships' just aren't a thing in the Empire. Everyone has the same view of what is sacrificed and what is *become* by Cultivation.
 


If you are only reading half of a post and only interpret it in a way that may fit your agenda, yes it will be hard to argue.

I'm quoting myself here:
The alternating Post may very well provide the necessary protection and deterrent.

This should have made it clear that i accept the fact that there is danger ... and think the first option is enough to cover for it.

None of that:
Claiming that the explicitly less safe option may not suffer any attacks whatsoever is absurd.
Shit.

But I'm done arguing with you.

___

If people want to have a comparison about road security within the empire, you can look to the Golden fields.

Journey to the East

"It is only roadwardens," Gu Xiulan dismissed, waving a hand.


In the brief moments where they spoke, the tiny dots on the horizon became larger, resolving into two riders. One was a man in polished dark green armor, with a face covering helm and a spear held over his shoulder. He stood on the back of a tremendous brown shelled scorpion, whose eight legs churned the sand beside the road into a plume of dust. Wider than three horses standing side by side, with a tail that arced some six meters into the air, it was an imposing sight.


On the other side of the road, the second figure stood in a wide stance atop a disk of pale white stone, its bottom marked by clusters of seemingly organic blue crystal that flashed and sparked with lightning as it flew, hovering some two or three meters off the ground. The rider wore dark brown obscuring robes, including a headdress and veil that left only a slight sliver of flesh around the eyes exposed.
...
Patrolling the great roads was a duty shared between the Dukes of the province, the Guo, and the three great count or marquis clans. The Han, the Fan, and the Deng. Always in pairs, and never a pair from the same clan. It fostered unity among those who ruled the wastes. Or so it was said anyway.

Now, we don't know what realm those two were, but I would be guessing mid or late green. Definitely not forth realm or above.

The roads in the Hellscape that is the golden field are patrolled by 2 third realms.
 
[X] Suggest alternating road outposts along the unclaimed length. But allow basing for patrols at each other's outposts, for rest and recuperation. (Minimal contact, no favorability cost, due to successes thus far.)
 
No-one's panicking over this. What we're pointing out is that option 1 is fine. It does the job. Hell, we're already being rewarded for our good management here by being able to get it without any cost!

Yes, mixed outposts can offer coordination advantages long term if everyone manages to work together. But we're also not there yet, and in the immediate future that also offers a lot of problems and opportunities for conflict. And if, in the years to come, we begin to clearly get coordination issues that are causing problems that's something that we can potentially renegotiate later once people have already gotten to know each other better.

In the mean time we need to get things off the ground now without causing major problems for us, and we're likely to need that margin to play with in the next section. The trade-offs here aren't worth it imo, and are likely to cause us regret later.
 
[X] Suggest in the interest of authority and further warding against tribal violence that outposts in the unclaimed section be fully shared structures, staffed by personnel from both nations. (-1 WP favorability, -1 PT Favorability. Improved road defenses and further mingling and cultural contact. Better response time to incursions against the road.)
 
In the mean time we need to get things off the ground now without causing major problems for us, and we're likely to need that margin to play with in the next section. The trade-offs here aren't worth it imo, and are likely to cause us regret later.

I mean, 70% of the time with Omake points the tradeoffs here are -1 to only Polar Theocracy Favorability and nothing else. That thus does not seem too high a price to pay. The 30% of the time we also pay -1 White Plume Favorability is a higher price to pay, but not so high it's unreasonable.
 
I mean, 70% of the time with Omake points the tradeoffs here are -1 to only Polar Theocracy Favorability and nothing else. That thus does not seem too high a price to pay. The 30% of the time we also pay -1 White Plume Favorability is a higher price to pay, but not so high it's unreasonable.
It is more risky though when PT are low and are probably about to make a bunch of demands of us that we can't readily accede to in the next section because of the MoI glaring at us. Like, crossed fingers we'll be able to get through it running net neutral on them, but...
 
[X] Suggest alternating road outposts along the unclaimed length. But allow basing for patrols at each other's outposts, for rest and recuperation. (Minimal contact, no favorability cost, due to successes thus far.)
 
[X] Suggest alternating road outposts along the unclaimed length. But allow basing for patrols at each other's outposts, for rest and recuperation. (Minimal contact, no favorability cost, due to successes thus far.)
 
[X] Suggest alternating road outposts along the unclaimed length. But allow basing for patrols at each other's outposts, for rest and recuperation. (Minimal contact, no favorability cost, due to successes thus far.)

Not the right time to spend favorability resources.
 
[X] Suggest in the interest of authority and further warding against tribal violence that outposts in the unclaimed section be fully shared structures, staffed by personnel from both nations. (-1 WP favorability, -1 PT Favorability. Improved road defenses and further mingling and cultural contact. Better response time to incursions against the road.)
 
[X] Suggest alternating road outposts along the unclaimed length. But allow basing for patrols at each other's outposts, for rest and recuperation. (Minimal contact, no favorability cost, due to successes thus far.)
 
For what I've seen the argument for non intermixed outposts is that it is not worth the points. However in all likelihood joint outposts will bring more cultural sharing than 1 point of favorability will give us else where. This isn't something that will prevent us from getting cultural sharing but actually kickstart it.

The cultural sharing in this is obvious. Soldiers learning techniques from each other. Officers learning strategy from each other. People learning language. Melding of leadership styles and command structures forced to get along. There will be much less push back against foreign regulations if people get used to following them and interacting with them.

Not only this but soldiers and leaders build friendship and camaraderie with each other. Possibly giving rise to more jaromilla and Ling Qi like pairs. As they fight together they begin to see each other as allies and not weird foreigners.

War time has proven across the ages to be a wonderful cultural diffusion tool. In the end the road and shared settlement will be extremely slow to have travelers if they are unsafe or the people on the other side viewed as untrustworthy. This will help people get used to being together and the stories, artifacts, and goods that the soldiers bring back home will fuel desire in the homelands for the commerce that we are trying to start.

Also, if i had to serve on a border patrol I would much rather serve in an out post that can really on the out post nearby vs an isolated outpost that can't trust its neighbors and can't really rely on them mobilizing in time to assist my outpost.

All in all I think this is an incredibly cheap way to bring a lot of cultural sharing and we aren't likely to get something this good during the cultural rounds. And joint habitation really is the end goal right.

[X] Suggest in the interest of authority and further warding against tribal violence that outposts in the unclaimed section be fully shared structures, staffed by personnel from both nations. (-1 WP favorability, -1 PT Favorability. Improved road defenses and further mingling and cultural contact. Better response time to incursions against the road.)
 
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