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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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Is the boundaries option supposed to have some hidden meaning? Because next to

[ ] spoke. "I have already said it. Your words were true. But I do not regret it, because it needs to be done, and no one else would do it right."

it looks anemic as fuck.
 
So either one last (presumably incredibly useful) lesson in the formation arts by a true master, or advice on how to shape LQ's Way.
I know I will vote for the latter, but I do wonder how much of a boost option 1 would provide us.
 
My Narrative Sense is screaming at me that Jiao said the "it needs to be done, and no one else would do it right" thing to himself way back when he decided to follow An.
 
Mmm, we're seeing a bit of awkwardness of system vs narrative here in our concept development.

The xp bar says we get a level up here but really Ling Qi is still mulling things over and the new power concept feels very much like a fairly bland placeholder. It's not saying anything - is a basic definition of power that Forge LQ would have thought, though probably less eruditely.

Power 2 and 3 were focused on values - the importance of having Power, and the question of broadening the conception of Power away from just raw might following story developments and focuses. This one then just shifts away from any interesting questions to a basic definition because LQ hasn't actually gotten any new developments yet which makes putting any emphasis on it feel a little odd. It's a shame the questions of morality and control aren't touched on at all, given that she's raised them in this very update and with our tribulation they're clearly important, but I can understand also feeling like those haven't really been thought through enough yet.
 
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[ ] spoke. "I have already said it. Your words were true. But I do not regret it, because it needs to be done, and no one else would do it right."

This is the one. I feel like this is going to hit Jiao where it hurts and that's exactly what he needs right now.
 
Lady_Story said:
[ ] spoke. "I have already said it. Your words were true. But I do not regret it, because it needs to be done, and no one else would do it right."

This is the one. I feel like this is going to hit Jiao where it hurts and that's exactly what he needs right now.
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Maybe that's Xin's keikaku. To use Ling Qi to get Jiao out of his funk.
Elder Jiao tapped the bowl of his pipe against his palm, glancing to his wife, who merely smiled mysteriously.
"You are plotting," he accused, jabbing his pipe at Xin.
"Ah, to be accused by my lord husband so cruelly," Xin sighed, resting her cheek on her hand. "I could weep."
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Boundaries do also follow up on our tribulation and the multitude vs the totality. I really do like the boundary idea here with Jiao, but I don't like the mention of formations with that.
 
[ ] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries, that is what I intend to study in my formations."

[X] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"
 
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Oh, oh. I really like option 1 now. It feels so much better. Lore dump and exploration of boundaries. Sign me up.

Option 2 feels a bit to much like hard girl making hard choices, which is definitely not what Ling Qi has been attempting.
 
[X] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"

We can finally discuss his study now...
 
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[ ] spoke. "I have already said it. Your words were true. But I do not regret it, because it needs to be done, and no one else would do it right."

I don't like this one. Compare the vote option to what she said in the update:

"And though you were a prickly, irascible old man. I do sincerely thank you for your words at the tournament. They were all true. This path of mine can make me want to tear my hair out sometimes. It sometimes feels as if I am all that lies between my liege and self-destruction."

Look at the words from Jiao she's referencing again, which Xepheria very helpfully quoted:

"There is neither happiness nor satisfaction to be found as a shadow. Be mindful in choosing what you are forced to discard on the roadside of the Way."

Is Ling Qi Renxiang's shadow? Because she's taken steps away from being a spymaster and toward being her open negotiator and diplomat. She is discarding nothing of herself to make herself better suited to her lady's service--if anything, she's being rather stubborn in instead pulling Renxiang towards where she thinks her lady should be. Renxiang is choosing the destination, but it's Ling Qi who's pushing the specific path they take to reach it.

[ ] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"

That's why this is the right option: because she references those words, then doesn't say he's right or that she's anything like him and his emperor. Because she's not! At the time, "They were all true," and yes, that's a true statement. But that she doesn't regret it doesn't even need to be said, because she saw what lay ahead and changed course, and if she ends her path at the part of the Way Jiao did, she will do it in a different way and for different reasons. So she should be asking for different lessons now.
 
Anderein said:
[ ] spoke. "I have already said it. Your words were true. But I do not regret it, because it needs to be done, and no one else would do it right."

I don't like this one. Compare the vote option to what she said in the update:

"And though you were a prickly, irascible old man. I do sincerely thank you for your words at the tournament. They were all true. This path of mine can make me want to tear my hair out sometimes. It sometimes feels as if I am all that lies between my liege and self-destruction."

Look at the words from Jiao she's referencing again, which Xepheria very helpfully quoted:

"There is neither happiness nor satisfaction to be found as a shadow. Be mindful in choosing what you are forced to discard on the roadside of the Way."

Is Ling Qi Renxiang's shadow? Because she's taken steps away from being a spymaster and toward being her open negotiator and diplomat. She is discarding nothing of herself to make herself better suited to her lady's service--if anything, she's being rather stubborn in instead pulling Renxiang towards where she thinks her lady should be. Renxiang is choosing the destination, but it's Ling Qi who's pushing the specific path they take to reach it.

[ ] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"

That's why this is the right option: because she references those words, then doesn't say he's right or that she's anything like him and his emperor. Because she's not! At the time, "They were all true," and yes, that's a true statement. But that she doesn't regret it doesn't even need to be said, because she saw what lay ahead and changed course, and if she ends her path at the part of the Way Jiao did, she will do it in a different way and for different reasons. So she should be asking for different lessons now.
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By your words were true I think Qi means that the path of the reformer is a miserable path, not that she was going to become a shadow to someone else, it's pretty clear Qi is not basing her path around Renxiang like Jiao based his around An in many ways.

And it is an incredibly hard path, but one that needs to be done. The world must change.
 
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[X] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"
 
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yrsillar said:
Ling Qi frowned as Xin ran her hand along the surface of the door. "I think… Power is the ability to make your choices extend beyond your own self. To make them matter to the world outside your mind."
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I like this a lot. It might read as simple, but it's got nuance to it and how it connects to our other insights that I really like.

It explicitly ties power to MAKING choices, not having choices. It means power is not a constant that can be built up, it's an equation to be evaluated for every situation. In general people can be more powerful or less, but the ground truth here is that power is a binary answer: every time the question "Can I do this?" is asked, the answer is yes or no.

Secondly, it makes clear that power is relational. It requires an actor and a thing to be acted upon, at a bare minimum. This makes it strictly about your relationship to the world, not to personal abilities and qualities or making choices internally.

Lastly, it draws a nice distinction between being an agent of another's power and power of your own: the question becomes who made the choice, not if the agent is capable of implementing the choice made. This is a very nuanced and useful way to think about power when it comes to groups and organizations- it's always an individual that has power, not a group. The one who made the choice, not the ones who agree with it or enforce it.
 
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[ ] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"

Me likey this
 
Elsecaller said:
By your words were true I think Qi means that the path of the reformer is a miserable path, not that she was going to become a shadow to someone else, it's pretty clear Qi is not basing her path around Renxiang like Jiao based his around An in many ways.

And it is an incredibly hard path, but one that needs to be done. The world must change.
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I don't think she thinks that about reform, though. Even in that quote of hers in the last update (the part I quoted starting with her calling him a prickly old man), she's not talking about the difficulties of reform, she's talking about the difficulties of being a follower to someone greater in status: that there's only so much she can do to intercede against Renxiang's problems. More than that, Jiao's regret seems very specific to the fact that he subordinated himself to the specific person that he did: not only one who would leave the project partway through in search of ascendency, but that he confined it to the context of the Empire.

yrsillar said:
She would know, she was the symbol of those oaths. But now with An retired to his final round of cultivation he doubted. There was so much to be done, and yet his Prince wanted to leave him behind, when he had centuries yet to rule and plan? Would the ripples of ascension really be so much better? He could not even ask, because the perfect emperor did not speak of doubts. Justice was sure. He felt something in him straining, on the verge of snapping as he laboriously arranged the thoughts that had been stirring. It felt like dredging up leviathans from an ocean trench, so deeply had he buried them.

"I do not think virtue and the Sage's Empire can coexist."
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If Jiao was A Reformer, he could continue Reforming even without a central implement of that reform. But he was The Shadow of the Reforming Emperor, and he discovered too late that Heaven Is Wrong. And so "But I do not regret it" does not fit, because the echo between his past and her future has likely already been broken beyond repair. She has chosen another path.
 
[X] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"
 
[X] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"
 
[X] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"
 
yrsillar said:
But I do not regret it, because it needs to be done, and no one else would do it right.
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I feel, philosophically, that this is an insufficient principle. After all, what if she gets it wrong, too? Or what if she's wrong, and someone else could get it "right"?

I think, as we approach White this will have to become: "I wish it to be done, and I wish it to be done this way -- that is justification enough."

Whether it's right or wrong can't matter, when it is the prerogative of the Sovereign to define such things.

That makes this a pretty good begining for exploring the concept though, a nice starting point.
 
[X] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"
 
[X] spoke. "I can finally answer your question. Boundaries and borders, liminal things, where things and people meet, that is my study, what was yours, Elder?"
 
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