Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
i'd stan an Ace Ling Qi, 100%. Though i agree with Sixi that she has to actually think about and realise whether or not she want intimate relationships.
I'd hate this TBH. LQ is absolutely not ace right now. She could make herself ace, but considering the way Cultivation works she'd be making herself asexual by surgically removing bits of her soul ("Cultivation is directed self-mutilation" has been a constant theme), and that's sort of yikes? I feels rude to say ace people are lacking something, they're just different.

Also, LQ making herself ace because of trauma feels like letting the trauma win. I know this isn't the healthiest way to envision recovery, but fuck it - this is a Cultivation web serial and I want the protagonist to overcome all obstacles, dammit !
 
We all know Ling Qi loves her some beefcakes.

Edit: Ling Qi's favorite kitchen impliment is also the cheese grater. Heck, it even catches her eye when it's paired with the wrong accessories (Liling).
 
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Finding specific type of look appealing and attractive is not the same as not being asexual.
Now, i agree that Ling Qi probably is not, but i would not really find it that big of a change of direction if it suddenly came out that she is.
 
Might be, but thinking about the possibility a bit, while I'm not sure how I'd feel about that for Ling Qi, I kinda suspect her mom might just outright die from how many alerts any Zheng husbando option would ring.

Who said it was for Ling Qi? And not Ling Qingee. >.o

I'd actually be super hype if mom finds love again.

Edit: What if Ling Qi's dad was a low level Zheng?!
 
Edit: What if Ling Qi's dad was a low level Zheng?!
Unlikely.
While Zheng may be known for care free attitude towards sex, they are also known for being quite frank about that, instead of stringing people along.
Not impossible of course, there are always bad actors, but, i really have zero reason to assume that instead of, well, almost any other option.
 
I, for one, am definitely interested in Ling Qi finding romance. I just want them to actually be interesting, for both the reader and Ling Qi. I think Ling Qi needs someone who makes her want to adventure, to sing and dance and make mischief. Not a merchant who will bring x, y and z to her barony. Ya know?

So Sixiang then? No need to bother with silly human cultivators when best Muse is right there being their best Enby self :V

*raises finger*

*lowers finger*

Hmm…

Huh…

That's a disconcertingly good point.
 
To take a probably-joke seriously: Sixiang is a cool character, but hopefully any romance arc with Ling Qi will be about her expanding her world rather than circling the wagons. As Meizhen's whole arc demonstrates, part of growing and maturing with respect to interpersonal relationships is realizing that you will hurt and be hurt, and sometimes it won't really be anyone's fault, and finding a way to accept all that. Going with the safest possible choice would feel like a serious failure on her part to grow and develop as a person.
 
i'd stan an Ace Ling Qi, 100%. Though i agree with Sixi that she has to actually think about and realise whether or not she want intimate relationships.
She's not ace though - or at least not unless she deliberately leaves that on her Way. We know that she likes the abs.

To take a probably-joke seriously: Sixiang is a cool character, but hopefully any romance arc with Ling Qi will be about her expanding her world rather than circling the wagons. As Meizhen's whole arc demonstrates, part of growing and maturing with respect to interpersonal relationships is realizing that you will hurt and be hurt, and sometimes it won't really be anyone's fault, and finding a way to accept all that. Going with the safest possible choice would feel like a serious failure on her part to grow and develop as a person.
Setting yourself up for a possibly ugly breakup with the person who lives inside your head is not 'the safest possible choice".
 
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Nope. Sixiang is the best wingman...well. wingthem. Idk what other term to use. Six is the best! Best friend, best therapist and LQ is very lucky to have them...how about we don't risk that all for something that might not work out? Yes? Yes.
 
psst...
Dont confront the Shipers about their fantasy, better they concentrate on impossible machup then, a bad one Like Bao, (or turtleboi).
Turtleboy isn't a bad matchup! Its just...extremely unlikely we'll ever see his muscles. He's like LQ, always shy and always gonna be covering up. Completely.
He's been described as stocky. But I'm sure there's muscle there. Alas.
 
Winter's Knights: On my Way to the Top
Winter's Knights: On My Way to the Top

Ling Qi nervously fidgeted with her flute checking and double checking everything was in place and clean for the thousandth time. She took a breath and held it for several seconds before slowly letting it out. Doing her best to follow the breathing techniques Zeqing had taught her Ling Qi couldn't ignore the pang of hurt in her chest at the thought of her former mentor. Her eyes couldn't help but drift over to Hanyi sitting close by, softly humming scales to herself and ignoring the soft chatter from the other bands in the green room.

Her mind drifted back to those final moments in the hospital. Hanyi crying for her mother to not leave. The hiss of oxygen being pumped to Zeqing. The grip of her mentor's hand, weak when it had seemed so strong just a few days ago, as she had asked Ling Qi to look out for Hanyi. Ling Qi was still amazed that the opera singer had been battling cancer the entire time she had known the woman and had only seen the barest hints of it until then. Hanyi was still so young but had been through so much but then again who hadn't in this little band of there's?

Thinking about that Ling Qi looked over to the other young member of their group Zhengui. The boy had a large pair of headphones on, bopping his head to whatever beat he was listening to. Ling Qi couldn't help but feel proud of him. One parent in the grave and the other behind bars, bounced around foster homes and yet here he was competing for a multi-record deal. She was really glad she had done that outreach program with Bai Meizhen, otherwise she would have never met Zhengui.

Ling Qi watched as he pushed his half-fiery red half-verdant green hair back, knocking his headphones off, and began gesturing wildly as he hissed out his verses under his breath. His eyes caught something though and he suddenly stopped, blushed, and put his headphones back on and turned his eyes to the ground. Looking over to where Zhengui had been looking a moment ago Ling Qi saw the familiar face of Bai Cui turning back to the rest of her band, Snake Bite.

The trio of punk girls was certainly intimidating. Big black boots, leather jackets, pierced lips and glares that could and had sent people scurrying for their lives. Ling Qi's eyes bounced between the black haired drummer, Xiao Fen, to Bai Cui, the bass player currently with her green hair in a plaited braid, before settling on her best friend Bai Meizhen with her long white hair flowing freely. Bai Meizhen met Ling Qi's gaze before offering a slight smile and small wave.

Ling Qi smiled and waved back. Bai Meizhen may have been the most intimidating looking in her band and she was honestly terrifying but Ling Qi knew that was just the white haired girl's outer layer protecting the soft and gentle heart at her center. Well, gentler. Meizhen's smile slipped a bit though and Ling Qi felt a weight added to the back of the sofa she was sitting on.

"Heya, gloomy girl! Gan just told me we're on in ten." Sixiang said, somehow lounging on the narrow back of the sofa. Ling Qi turned to give Sixiang a look, she did not want the rainbow haired raver to break anything here. They just gave her a smile and then waved at Meizhen who awkwardly waved back before turning to talk with Xiao Fen.

It was still a little upsetting to Ling Qi that Sixiang and Meizhen weren't on the best of terms. She couldn't blame her former roommate for that though. Their first meeting having Sixiang on their kitchen table with a passed out Ling Qi on top of them was certainly not the best first impression. The fact that Ling Qi and Sixiang had met at what Sixiang described as 'the most poppin rager of the year' certainly hadn't helped. For someone so punk, Bai Meizhen could be surprisingly straight-laced in certain areas.

Ling Qi suddenly felt her own hair smack her in the face and spluttered, turning to a giggling Sixiang. "What was that for?" She asked with a glare with no real heat behind it.

"Your mind had started to drift away, was just doing my part to keep you here." They said with another giggle. Ling Qi just stared at them before nudging the living rainbow of a person with her elbow. With a "Eep!" and a thud Sixiang rolled off the couch back and onto the floor of the green room before popping back up and posing as if they were a gymnast that just stuck their landing.

With a roll of her eyes at her friend's antics Ling Qi stood up, nudging Zhengui as she did. "Come on, we're going to be on in a minute." She said to him and Hanyi, heading towards the green room exit. She got a "Coming, Big Sis" from Hanyi and a "Got it, Big Sister" from Zhengui before they fell into step behind her.

Just as she was about to exit Ling Qi caught sight of Sun Liling and the rest of her band Bloody Jungle. The lead guitarist of the thrasher band was already flipping the double bird towards Ling Qi's group while the bassist Dharitri blew a few kisses with an overly saccharine smile that was probably going for cute but went straight to creepy for Ling Qi. Before Hanyi could even finish her strangled "Why you?!" Ling Qi already had a hand on her shoulder and ushering her through the door. A brief nod of acknowledgement between Ji Rong, Bloody Jungles drummer and occasional rapper, and herself and then she was out of the room with Sun Liling's laughter cut off as the door shut.

Ling Qi rubbed Hanyi's back a few times, trying to get the girl's temper down before they got on stage. "Remember Hanyi, what did Zeqing say about those sorts of situations."

"If they're crass beat their ass." The platinum haired young girl deadpanned. Ling Qi sighed as Sixiang snorted trying to contain her laughter and Zhengui chuckled under his breath.

"No Hanyi, if they're crass show them class. We have better things to do than get into stupid fights." Honestly, she had no idea how Zeqing thought Hanyi could grow into what she called a 'proper lady' while also fully supporting her daughter's desires to get into the hip-hop rap scene. Then again Ling Qi didn't think the opera star would have helped her refine her flute playing as much as she did. It had also surprised Ling Qi how quickly Zeqing had been able to list off a dozen different songs in a dozen different genres that had featured the flute heavily just to prove a point.

'It wasn't about the instrument or genre, it's about the emotion behind it.'

"Nah, I like the kids version better. Gives me an excuse to deck annoying frat boys." Sixiang said before bouncing around and throwing punches as if they were shadow boxing.

A boisterous call from a mountain of a man broke up their little discussion. "What's this I hear? Do we have some rabid fans that need to be shown the door?" Gan Guangli nearly shouted, which was normal for him considering he didn't seem to understand the idea of inside voices.

"Nah, just Sun Liling trying to start crap again." Zhengui offered to the part-time MC and full-time bodyguard in explanation. "And Hanyi was quick to take the bait." He added after a beat which got him an angry hey and pout from the girl in question.

Gan Guangli shifted his attention to Ling Qi, with pleading eyes and said, "Please do not start any more fights Miss Ling."

"Hey! I don't start any fights Gan Guangli, I just-"

"Finish them!" Everyone else, including Gan Guangli, interrupted her before bursting into laughter.

Ling Qi huffed and folded her arms. "Apologies, apologies Miss Ling! Cai Renxiang just wants to ensure that Winter's Knights has as spotless a reputation as possible." Before she could respond to that statement though, her manager's bodyguard held up a hand telling her to wait while his other pressed an earpiece more firmly into his ear. "Sorry to cut this short but Xuan Shi's set is just about done. Wait for your cue and don't forget to double check your equipment once you're out there. The stage hands are good but mistakes happen. And remember to project as much as you can, the more mics that pick you up the better. And remember to smile it helps give the right-"

"Okay, thanks mom! Go do your job now!" Sixiang teased Gan Guangli before shooing him away. Gan Guangli just raised his hands and shrugged with a chuckle before opening the heavy metal door next to him. The soft beat and soothing tones of Xuan Shi's lofi tracks washed over them along with the gentle murmur of the crowd as the large man stepped through. As it closed they could only hear the occasional bass line thump.

Taking a look around at her bandmates, her family, Ling Qi took a fortifying breath. "Alright Winter's Knights we've done these songs a hundred times by now. Our set is going to be amazing and we've already got the contract with Cai Renxiang. But do we want to settle for less when we can take it all?"

"No way, Big Sister!" She could see the determination burning in Zhengui's eyes.

"I'm going to be the best anyways so why wait to get there?" Hanyi offered with a haughty sniff and tilt of her head.

She felt Sixiang hand land on her shoulder and give a soft squeeze. "Behind you all the way Ling Qi."

Ling Qi felt a bit of her trepidation begin to lift. Everything was going to work out, she had her family with her. She heard the roaring of the crowd and then faintly the voice of Gan Guangli through the heavy metal door.

"Let's hear it one more time for the master of those lofi beats! Xuan Shi!" The crowds cheering picked up once again and as the door opened it was basically a wave of sound that smashed against them. Ling Qi was so surprised that she didn't notice Xuan Shi himself before he spoke up.

"Ah, Winter's Knights. Always a pleasure to see you. I wish we had time to talk but I shan't hold you up. Good luck." He said to them before bowing and walking away. Xuan Shi was an odd one with his archaic speech and odd garb of bamboo hat and high collared coats. He was a good person though and Ling Qi gave him a wave goodbye.

"I'd like to thank you all for coming out to the Argent Battle of the Bands once again! And an extra special thank you to the wondrous Cai Shenhua for being one of our judges tonight! Without her generous patronage many of the bands you've seen would not be here-" Ling Qi tuned Gan Guangli's vamping out for the moment, he was just buying time for the stage hands to swap equipment out. They were just waiting for their cue to start coming out. She didn't have to wait long. "-introduce our next band Winter's Knights!"

Ling Qi threw the metal door open and held it while the rest of the band started to hustle out waiting for the MC to call their name.

"First off, they know how to give you a show, sweet as an angel, we have mix master Rainbow Devil!" Sixiang wildly waved to the crowd as they crossed the stage to applause and cheers. They took up their station at their mixer, light fx board, and sampler setup, already double checking that everything was to their liking. "Next, they spit hot fire but their bass line keeps you going. It's Refreshing Fire!" A big smile crossed Zhengui's face, giving a little cheer of his own as he ran to his synth and drum machine. "She may be cute but get to close and you could lose some fingers, give it up for Lil' Frost on the mic!" Hanyi strode out, eating up the adoration of the crowd as she stood by her mic. "And lastly, bringing us that good music on the flute, it's the Great Qi!"

Ling Qi hurriedly walked over to her seat, forcing a smile and wave to the crowd. As she settled in her eyes quickly searched the crowd vainly hoping to see her mother even though she knew Qingge was at home probably putting Biyu to bed. What she did see was the judges table setup right next to the stage and two of some of the most well known and terrifying people in the industry.

Cai Shenhua. CEO, President and Majority Shareholder of Palace of One Entertainment. Her short midnight black hair styled in a manner to fan around her head drew the eye to her beautiful face set with a deadly stare and eyes that seemed to glow with an inner light. A gauzy white dress, most likely her own design, clung to her amazonian build and hid just enough to be considered proper. Seeing the imposing woman made it easy to believe the rumors that when the former model and fashion designer had launched her hostile takeover of the company she currently owned that board members' heads had actually rolled. That and the rumor that she had single handedly ran the company for a year after firing everyone in it were just conspiracies though. Mostly.

The man sitting beside her may have been two and half times Cai Shenhua's age but still exuded a sense of energy as he stood straight and tall. Seeing his slightly thinning but spiked white hair, long well kept beard, and immaculate black suit it might surprise people to see the lightning bolt tattoo striking out from under his shirt and across the vast wrinkles on the side of his face. Even more surprising was that this was Yuan He, father of hip hop and THE OG.

It was an open secret that when Ogodei had united the various Emerald Seas gangs under the banner of the Cloud Barbarians it was Yuan He and his gang that had finally killed him. After that the corrupt and scared cops had finally started to step in and help clean up the mess. The police tried to pin the blame for everything on Yuan He and the gangs instead of their own corruption and laziness but couldn't get anything to stick. With him in the public eye so much it was hardly surprising when he released his first album and became an instant success. Not when his songs were so good they held nine of the top ten song spots for months. Fast forward two decades and Yuan He used his money and influence to revitalize the Argent School of Musical Arts and became its president and headmaster for longer than Ling Qi's been alive.

And these two titans of the industry were going to judge Ling Qi to see if she was good enough to get a record deal.

No pressure.

Looking to the rest of her bandmates she got nods from each of them, signaling they were ready. Ling Qi took a breath and licked her suddenly far too dry lips. Bringing her flute up to her lips the stage lights dimmed at Sixiang's command. Beginning to play on her own Ling Qi felt like this was some sort of classical recital, the heavy thump from Zhengui's bass line dispelled any thoughts of that though. Hanyi's crystal voice soon came over the speakers, Sixiang making sure all their sounds were balanced as they started the light show.

"You call me ice queen but I'm a princess
One look at me and you obsess
Stuck in your spot
While I rise to the top
Give me everything you got
I'll give nothing back
Cuase I'm on my way
On my way to the top"


Ling Qi began to lose herself to her own playing, pouring her emotions and memories into the song through her flute. Old memories of running from home, scrabbling for anything on the street, having to look after herself and no one else. How it all turned around.

She had decided to take a chance. Busking on a street corner with her flute and hoping to make enough to feed herself for a day or maybe two. She barely remembered the woman that had given her a card and a few large bills and told her to go to the address to audition in a week. The fear she felt when she went to scope the place out to make sure it wasn't some sort of abduction scheme. Her wonder at seeing the Argent School of Musical Arts for the first time.

Her sheer disbelief when they had admitted her.

The confusion and joy she felt when she reunited with her mother and found out she had a sister.

All of it came out, one note after the other and became something beautiful.

Her musings were cut off though when she heard a small pause in the baseline. Ling Qi looked over to Zhengui as the brief pause was soon filled with a sample of his live playing by Sixiang. Ling Qi made a note to herself that they still needed to practice that hand off for live shows as Zhengui started to rap.

"Yo yo yo, I'm comin' through
Whether you're a Bai, a Zheng or Xu
Emerald Seas is where I grew
Gotta rep those green trees
Gotta get that green, nothin ever free
Anythin' in my way I'll burn it down
Burn myself
Rise from the ashes like the phoenix do
Learned that from my good friend
Xiulan from the Gu
I'm on my way, on my way
I'm on my way, on my way
To the very top"


Hanyi came back in on the verses but Zhengui kept his hands on his mic, the song was almost over. After one more line from Hanyi Sixiang cut out the baseline entirely soon followed by Ling Qi stopping her own playing. It was just Hanyi's voice now.

"Cause I'm on my waaaaay-"

Zhengui added his own vocals now.

"I'm on my waaaay-"

Ling Qi took a breath and joined in.

"On my waaaay-"

A pause, a beat and then all together.

"Because we're on our way to the top!"

The stage lights cut out. The roar of the crowd is drowned out by the roar of blood in Ling Qi's ears. One down three to go, she thought to herself.

A.N.
@yrsillar Omake for the Omake throne. Hey everybody, lets have some apocryphal Band A.U! Not only a Band A.U but a Modern and School A.U to boot! Got to twist those plot points in somehow. Please blame @Lady_Story @ActionKermit @barty @Elsecaller for putting this idea into my head over on the discord. I now spread my cursed thoughts unto you. In this A.U I was also thinking the Bai are definitely a Triad/Yakuza/Mafia/Crime family.
 
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Thanks for giving us the Band AU I never knew we needed. Lofi Xuan Shi just fits so perfectly
 
That was a great choice and I love Sixiang getting to explore this side of themselves and inspiring similar in LQ.
heretics wanting to fuck the therapist

smh
Transference isn't uncommon. Vulnerability shown to therapists make for easy crush fuel...
Nope. Sixiang is the best wingman...well. wingthem. Idk what other term to use. Six is the best! Best friend, best therapist and LQ is very lucky to have them...how about we don't risk that all for something that might not work out? Yes? Yes.
Wingthem. Might be my new favourite term.
 
A.N.
@yrsillar Omake for the Omake throne. Hey everybody, lets have some apocryphal Band A.U! Not only a Band A.U but a Modern and School A.U to boot! Got to twist those plot points in somehow. Please blame @Lady_Story @ActionKermit @barty @Elsecaller for putting this idea into my head over on the discord. I now spread my cursed thoughts unto you. In this A.U I was also thinking the Bai are definitely a Triad/Yakuza/Mafia/Crime family.

OMG yes pleaz mor?

Seriously though, I LOVED the way you characterized the spirits, and remapped all the relationships. This was really well done.
 
psst...
Dont confront the Shipers about their fantasy, better they concentrate on impossible machup then, a bad one Like Bao, (or turtleboi).
So...

So, first meeting...

He's ostentatious. He wears rich fabrics and precious gems. His initial presentation is as a jewel - a rare and valuable thing, to be desired and coveted.

- There's too much of it to quote, but on his first meeting, he is generous with politeness and honest praise.



- Here we get a hint of his "always be hustling". He is always looking for ways of making more money... but he's looking for it in mutually beneficial deals, rather than exploitative ones. He wants to become increasingly wealthy, certainly, but he wants to lift up those that come with him at the same time. We also get a hint below the courtly talk. My read is that he really is comfortable in the whirl of courtly discussion. He enjoys the dance of words. The Bao Qian that we see here is in some ways the true Bao Qian.


He pays attention to the probable needs of the peopel aroudn him, and is considerate. At the same time, he does have his pride... and he advertises.

Again, always be hustling.

- side note from QM indicates that Ling Qi is just about 16 (may have turned 16 since?) and he's between two and three years older than she is.



Always be hustling.



He's unwilling to share the secrets of family, but absolutely willing to smooth over whatever can be smoothed.



His spirit does not share his opinions of the gentle art of conversation, but, I suspect, was far to valuable to pass up.

- in general, he shows an effort to smooth things over, he looks for opportunities to honestly complement, and he is straightforward with his offers whenever he sees an opportunity for mutual benefit. It's like... the complements and social dancing is an aura he maintains (easily and happily, with some enjoyment) but the financial opportunities that arise are the payoff, and he'll absolutely take a shot at every one of them that presents itself.





From a financial strategy standpoint, he (and, it seems, the Bao in general) are in favor of achieving sustainable wealth and long-term investments, even if it means a loss in short-term gains. They prefer victories that can be achieved without causing anyone else a defeat. He's going to be looking to the long-term in his planning. or a guy like this, that is a notable aspect of his personality.

In particular from the bit about risk - he does not mind personal financial risk, if it comes with appropriate potential payoff, but he deplores collateral damage.



The Bao know that they are unusual, with their focus on growth and commerce. Bao Qian enjoys being Bao in this way.

...and we have more quotes that keep hammering the same themes. He is always looking for opportunities for mutual profit, he is entirely up front about his financial tendencies, and he's charming and friendly while he does it.



I'm going to agree with Sixiang here. I don't think he is in any way hiding what he is. He's presenting the greater part of himself up front, with the intent that we know what he's offering. He looks at the potential marriage as a potentially major deal - perhaps the most important in his life - and while he'd like to make it happen, it would be better to have no deal at all than a deal that goes sour. As such, he's presenting himself about as straightforwardly as he can - the charming merchant and businessman through and through - only dialing it back a bit because he doesn't want to overwhelm us. He's a salesman, and he would dearly like to know what Ling Qi wants, so that he can see if he can figure out a way to offer it. Of course, that's made harder by the fact that Ling Qi doesn't really know what she wants... and harder still by the fact that part of what she wants is "desperately run away".


First, he is trying very hard to make this deal work. That's a bit of insight here. It is a deal for him, and one he seeks to make mutually advantageous. He sees a lot to admire in Ling Qi, certainly, but he isn't emotionally engaged in the way that, say, Xuan Shi is, or even the wistful dalliance with the idea of romance that Gu Rejected had. He's taking the first steps to forge a marriage deal with "Baroness Ling, Black Left Hand of the Heir to the Cai", and any romancing of "Ling Qi, sixteen-year-old girl" that happens along the way would be at least partially in service to that, rather than for its own sake. At the same time, he values many of Ling Qi's aspects that others would grow romantic over as well... it's just that romance is not the lens by which he approaches it.

Further, he's willing to drag himself out of his comfort zone in order to try to meet us where we are. He's willing to work on this one, and he continues to be open and up-front and fully honest. He absolutely thinks that he's worthy of us, and he thinks he can prove it. He has the Bao confidence... but if all that comes out of this is a series of mutually beneficial business agreements and an ongoing business contact, he'll still count it as a win.

Finally, there is his ambition. He doesn't want to be handed his wins. He wants to earn them. He wants to be able to look back on his life and say "I am wealthy, with many great works, and I deserve every bit of it." He wants to be a force that creates wealth, not just one that possesses it.

Or, for the TLDR
- He's an honestly friendly, gregarious guy. He's generous with the complements and tries to make the conversations around him feel good to be in because that's the kind of guy he likes to be. He enjoys the conversational dance. He's completely blunt and up-front about seeking business deals of mutual profit any time he can find them, and he is always hustling. "Friendly, ambitious, money-loving businessman who will make good deals with you" is his natural state, and the mode he's most comfortable in, and not a bit of it is fake.
- He's ostentatious. His outfit speaks of glittering wealth, and he's dripping in jewelry. The Bao are all about being wealthy and seeking to be more wealthy, and he enjoys being Bao. He has profound self-confidence, of the sort that only avoids outright arrogance by not being in any way obnoxious or denigrating to others. He just thinks very highly of himself, while also being happy to think highly (and speak highly) of those around him.
- He is very mercantile, and not even remotely ashamed of it. (See "enjoys being Bao".) He's looking at the potential match with Ling Qi as, in effect, a potential business agreement between the two of them... one that wouldn't come to fruition for a number of years regardless, and one where the virtues he can see in her as a person (and the ones he presents in return) are absolutely part of the exchange, but the attitude is as a business deal. It's an opportunity for mutual profit that he thinks both he and she would find very profitable indeed. By the same token, if it falls through? Well, there's no merit in making yourself miserable over the deals you didn't make when you could instead be making other also-profitable deals. If at the end of the day all he is to Ling Qi is a valued business contact with an ongoing series of mutually beneficial deals, that's a win in his book, and he'll take it as such. This is in stark contrast with Xuan Shi, for example, who gets emotionally entangled very easily, and is prepared to throw resources at the object of his affections without ever actually admitting his interest.
- Given how mercantile he is, his overall financial strategy and ethics actually are a significant part of his character. From what we've seen, he's upright and honest, he seeks mutual profit rather than exploitation, he prefers long-term investments to short-term payoffs, he sees much of war as wasteful rather than glorious, and in general he sees no value in unnecessary conflict. He's willing to accept personal financial risk, if the potential payoff is good enough, but he deplores collateral damage. I suspect that part of him admires Zhengui in that way... Zhengui walks, and the world is made wealthier by his passing.
- finally, we get to the end, when he really opens up, and we see a few things. First, while it's true that he'd be willing to take a lesser win, it's also the case that he's willing to push himself to get a shot at making this thing with Ling Qi work. He pushes himself into a kind of talking that is uncomfortable to him, and she really doesn't make it any easier, and he just keeps pushing through it, in spite of the discomfort. His main problem isn't unwillingness. He's willing to do quite a bit. His main issue is that Ling Qi isnt' giving him a whole lot to work with in how he's supposed to connect with her. WE also get his ambition. He doesn't want to merely own riches and possess great works. He wants to generate riches, and create great works. He wants to honestly earn his wealthy ending.

...and yeah, yeah that was the TLDR.

I think that's enough for the first meeting. I'll follow up further in later posts.

you're trying to convince me...

This bit's interesting, and perhaps pertinent, but to me it makes perfect sense. An up-and-coming rebel against the establishment, trying to seize power by force of arms? That's not necessarily a good potential business partner. A freshly ascendant Duke with a hatred for corruption, a fetish for law and order and justice, and a desire to see her lands thrive? That is an excellent potential business partner.

It does suggest that it might be worth checking out our initial interaction with the Bao, however (back in Forge). Bao Qian really is very Bao, in a number of ways, and it might give good perspective.



...and on further inspection, all that initial interaction does is reaffirm the same themes, in a slightly different package. Friendly, pleasant, ostentatious, and absolutely willing to prioritize things like "potential for opening up valuable trade routes" and "maintaining good customer relations" over petty trifles like who gets honored by which visitor. They dance the courtly dance in order to maximize wealth, and they even enjoy it, but they dance it in a very gentle and noncompetitive way because maximizing wealth is the point of the matter, rather than whatever it is that everyone else is fighting for. They're just here because it's the best place to make deals.

So... second major on-screen meeting, where we ask him about the parting gift for Xiulan, as the war is heating up.
So here we get some interesting insight. He is absolutely willing to put himself at risk, even at risk of personal danger, in order to establish and maintain his reputation. In particular, it appears that he values Ling Qi's opinion of him enough that that would have been sufficient unto itself.


...and he does have interests other than making money. The technical aspects of caves (and the financial implications thereof) are apparently (and, in retrospect, unsurprisingly) one of them.


He's willing to put his life at some risk in pursuit of Ling Qi's affections. He's even willing to do the work itself for free. He's not willing to just cover the material costs, however. If Ling Qi can't handle that, then clearly he was wrong, and she isn't the girl for him after all. If she can't maintain a solid relationship as a business partner first, then the relationship was doomed from the start.

...and at the same time, the labor was a gift... and he put in the effort to make it truly beautiful.

Now, on to the third meeting, where they're hashing out their first set of deals... and then segue into the no-really-this-is-a-date.

Again, here I think we see him pushing himself to try to present a face that is more comfortable for her to receive, rather than the one that is more comfortable for him to project. He's actually grasping at words a few times, with a bit of stammering.



And this bit of scene has a lot of interesting things happening in it. With the beginning bit... first, he's walking her through the steps of a friendly negotiation. It's the sort of discussion I imagine he hopes to have with her many more times than just this. Moreover, it's something that he's desperately wanted more of - Ling Qi (and, as a bonus, her spirits), honestly and in their own words just telling him what they want. Ling Qi may be embarrassed by Zhengui's blunt declaration of intent, but that's exactly the sort of information that Bao Qian was hoping to get... how to keep the big guy happy and not step on his toes. His own response lets him slip in another complement without being untoward, and also lets him revisit the offer to sell her songs for her. Up to that point, it's a stunning success for him... and then Ling Qi suddenly drops the bit about Hanying's singing in his lap. He absolutely wants to make this thing work, and this is part of making this thing work, and he's trying to figure out the right angles to put together a mutually beneficial arrangement that won't break his new business idea before it begins... and then Ling Qi tosses a personal favor in there, and that's simply too valuable for him to pass up, even though he's gritting his teeth trying to figure out how to make it work... and then it turns out that the potential for profit on Zhengui's side is notably greater than he had expected, and suddenly everything's okay again, because he has some space to work with.

So... what I read from this is interesting. First, I think I initially underestimated how much he wants this thing to work out. I think I got the flavor of the interest correct, but not its intensity (if that makes sense). Bao Qian is willing to do quite a lot to attract Ling Qi's romantic attentions, but the relationship he wants is built on top of a paradigm of business partners. If either one of them isn't making profit from the deal, then the entire thing rots at the foundation. This makes some interesting distinctions for what he is and is not willing to do. He's willing to work at cost, for small things, in order to gain favor. He's willing to adopt a social form that he personally finds very uncomfortable. He's willing to put himself at nontrivial physical risk for her favor... but he's not willing to take a loss. The idea of a personal favor from her is tremendously compelling for him... but he's not willing to take a loss from it. That's what makes him so uncomfortable with Hanying's request... because he has to figure out a way for everyone involved to profit from the deal, and he is hurting himself trying to figure out how to make Hanying's thing work and also avoid a loss. Then best Turtlesnake busts out with "Many, many wheelbarrows" and suddenly everything gets easier.


And now what do we get here?
- Well, first, he pays attention to family. He knows how his cousin normally acts, he cares, and when she starts acting oddly, he gets concerned. He also knows Ling Qi well enough by now to pick something up from her tells... but is also more interested in peace than in the pertinent information, and thus lets it go.
- and then he pushes the invitation to a date. It's... just about the best chance he's going to get, really, and he knows it, and he pushes it even though it'll make her uncomfortable, because this is the chance he's got.

...and I think with that, I'm tapped out. I'll return to this on another day.

that I shouldn't say certain things...

He did not expect her to say "yes", necessarily. He really did not expect her to say "yes" after obviously seizing control of herself. The result... is for him both more of a win than he probably expected and a far more awkward win than he could possibly have expected. I mean, let's just grab this one quote.

Just... just to savor that one for a moment.

Bao Qian is absolutely walking into this one with the expectation that it could go down in flames... but he can't back down. Also, the man is not afraid of taking on some personal risk when the situation calls for it.


Oh, ow. That... yeah. That's going to keep showing up as a problem with Bao Qian going forward, as he is both a source of income and someone who's pressing romantic attentions on her that she'd be more comfortable without.


and here? He's dialed back. He actually dressed down for his date from his standard outfit, and switched to darker colors to better match her (and maybe show off his chest a bit in the hope that that helps). At some level, part of him probably just hopes to make it through the night without everything going down in flames.



Some of the fundamental disconnects between them show up to says "hi", but he's handling it pretty well.


And she leaves herself wide open, entirely unintentionally... and he refuses the gambit, because he knows that this night is fragile.

Ling Qi's roll about this date was a single composure check. I feel like BaoQuest altverse had something like four rolls and three different votes, all fo which could have gone badly.


In his natural state, Bao Qian is ostentatious, gregarious, and unashamedly forthright in matters of finance. Of the three, for Ling Qi, he's learned that the last one works and the first two do not, and he's adjusting accordingly.

...and this one, I think, is interesting for reasons beyond just this one relationship. Ling Qi doesn't have any goal beyond the desire for power itself. She has nothing guiding her. That's... potentially dangerous. Jiao has pointed out to us the dangers of having your Way wrapped around another person, and he's right, but is having your Way wrapped around nothing at all really any better?

Beyond that, Bao Qian clearly finds this an alien mindset. To him, cultivation is something that you pursue (at potentially significant cost in time, resources, and risk) because it lets you achieve other things. The idea of a desperate craving for power for its own sake is alien to him. He's a very privileged young man, in many ways. He's never had a risk he didn't choose for himself. He has no real understanding of the kind of trauma that drives her, and that's a lot of why he finds it so difficult to understand her.


...and here it shows up again, even moreso. He's visibly grappling with trying to understand the implications of a childhood in the gutter, while having essentially no context to really get it. To her, they're blindingly obvious, and should have followed pretty much instantly just from knowing that that's where she came from. He's... basically trying to work it out while continuing to be honest, hoping to get some better understanding of how to deal with her, and she's finding the things he's saying to be critical and at least a little insulting. Admittedly, on the face of them they are, but that's because he's had to discard all of the social skills that he has for softening the edge of such things.

And then she touches on part of the thesis at the core of her again, and it almost flits by him He doesn't have the context to ground it. At the same time, he wants to help. His is a paradigm where raising up the people around you is helpful to both you and them, and he's following that. Helping her understand the context she now inhabits will absolutely and obviously be helpful to her, and he wants to be helpful to her, but it also helps give them a bit mroe common ground to work with, given how hard he's finding it to stand on the ground on her side of things.


Bao Qian: "Okay. Maybe I can get her talking about herself. People like talking about themselves, right? Perhaps the origin of one of her spirits? Hanyi's backstory sounds interesting, and it'll also get her talking about her mentor. People generally like talking about their spirits and mentors, right?
Ling Qi: (instantly flashes to thinking about Hanyi's dad) "So... I might want to take a bit of time thinking about how to approach this one first. Deflect!"
Bao Qian: "But... but... how was that not a safe topic?"

It's from an entirely different direction, but, again, Ling Qi has had real trauma in her life, and Bao Qian just hasn't.


Again, Bao Qian is being careful, here.


...and, again, Ling Qi has her trauma.


...and Bao Qian simply cannot stop hustling. He's pretty good at making it not unpleasant, but I don't think he has it in him to just let an opportunity go. Of course, we also see another side of this, because it seems that he really is into music as a thing to listen to and appreciate and share. It's like... Bao Qian wants to make the world a wealthier place (and in so doing, thrive personally as well) and music is another form of wealth that he'd like to see spread around. These new recording techniques let him straight-up increase the amount of good music in the world (while making money for himself and all others involved) and that draws him.

I feel like, for a guy who has "become wealthier, and never be satisfied" as one of his core drives, he's surprisingly unselfish.



...and here, again, we have a fair bit to unpack. Ling Qi is a creature of the cold - of want and need and desperation and hardship. Her world is one of honest, unpretentious viciousness. Bao Qian is in many ways the opposite. He, too, is honest and unpretentious, but his is a world of warmth and plenty and luxury. His is the voice telling her that she is no longer weak and starving, and that she is now capable of having happiness that will not be inevitably snuffed out. At the same time, there's some real payoff here from Carefree Mantle, I think, because it looks like he starts to get it.

We also get the contrast between their ambitions. Hers is that desperate greed - fighting for every scrap you can get, because it is all precious and fragile and you have to be as strong as you can in order to keep it as safe as you can for as long as you can before it inevitably collapses. He's on the flip side - his greed is not so desperate, but it is just as unending. There is always more wealth to pursue. There are always more works to be created. The world can always be further improved (and he can benefit by being the instrument of that improvement. Bao Qian is a creature of plenty.

...and yet, this still does not in any way scare him off. He's more pleased by gaining the insight than he is put off by the degree of damage Ling Qi has.

and then there's the lesser encounters since then.

And, from a scene that had almost no Bao Qian in it...

That... that's an ooof, that is. It went pretty well, and Bao Qian did his best to be supprotive and nonthreatening. Even so, to Ling Qi's mind, that dinner they spent together was one of the most harrowign experiences she's put herself through.

...and another

Bao Qian is still graplign with the whole thing. Bao Qingling is enjoyign seeing him off-balance. I get the idea that that's not a usual experience for him. I imagine he's not before found a prize worth pushing himself for to that degree.

...and another


so, we had the expedition. We had the conversation with Bao Qian. Did we ever ask him about it?



Huh. Peripherally... and I'd bet that he knows (or at least guesses) what we're talking about, and is hopeful that we can help. He does pay attention to family, after all.

but that wasn't the interesting part of this conversation. Instead, after a solid chunk of easy back-and-forth discussing the results of our recent incursion (where Bau Qian actually managed to remain reasonably comfortable in spite of it being more Ling Qi's language than his own)....


He's flirting. He's actually legitimately fitting in some mild flirtation stuff, into a conversation that both of them feel comfortable about, and not freaking her out. He managed to get a lot better at understanding her, and understanding how to interact with her, over the course of that date. The "No, really, she has a desperate and unending hunger for cultivation itself and the resources that drive it." is the thing that he was leveraging in this part, plus, I think, the insight that she needed to not feel vulnerable or powerless. Of course, she's getting more generally comfortable with him, as well.

So... on to the TLDR. I apologize, in that I suspect this will not be as good as I could manage under other circumstances. Analysis takes ergs, and I've been spending a rather lot of them on this. That having been said...

His experience is really very alien to Ling Qi's. Bao Qian is a cheerful, friendly, stable guy. His natural world is one in which he finds ways to benefit everyone around him, and benefits himself in so doing. His natural experience of threat and risk is that it's something that only happens because you choose it, in pursuit of greater gains. His idea of the lower classes? Honestly, I expect that it's something like "the way they are treated is a terrible waste. If you'd just support them and invest properly, they'd have much better lives, and be much more productive and everyone would benefit. Why is this so hard for people?" That's... probably at some level that's his default attitude towards Ling Qi. She has tremendous potential, but is held back by certain details of her upbringing. (He's not wrong.) He's in a position to help her develop that potential, and them both benefit by it, and that is his standard approach to life. It's not going to be easy, and it's not guaranteed, but he's willing to work and to risk in pursuit of gains like this.

Now, some folks may look at this and find it objectionable, but the trick to realize is that he's entirely even-handed about it. He sees great value in her future potential and her current capability. He thinks that they can be very profitable together... and that's exactly how he'd like to be assessed as well. He's not setting himself above her in this. It's not her normal kind of relationship, but it's not in any way unfair. In the same way that Bai Meizhen is a snake, Bao Qian is a glittering gemstone. You can tell by the care he puts into his setting. As far as he's concerned, she's the objectively correct wife-choice for him, and he thinks he can present a compelling argument that he's the objectively correct husband-choice for her. He's starting it out as a business partnership because in his experience, the way to build a healthy marriage is to make the bones of it a very close, intimate, and personally important business partnership.

Now, in pursuit of this, he's been bending over backwards in order to try to understand her well enough to connect with her on her level. She's been putting in effort, too, but all of her effort has been on things like "don't just assume that he's evil", "don't run away screaming", and "try to open up a bit and actually say things". Being romantically involved with Ling Qi takes work, and he's shown he's willing to put in that kind of work... and, lately, he's been having some success on crossing that divide.

Honestly, I think that's one of his strong points. Bao Qian's idea of what a marriage should look like might seem a bit odd, but I'd bet it works... and Ling Qi has no basis for even knowing what something like that might look like. Having a marriage work requires effort, and Bao Qian is willing to put in that effort, and even help her learn how to manage her side of it. He's seen far enough into her that he's seen the damage, even if he doesn't understand it, and he's putting in the work to handle that damage.

I dunno. I think we've actually seen enough to understand him pretty well by now.

...and that finishes the set. Time to go back and look at the responses.

because you think that Bao Qian is a bad matchup, and it's important that we not get involved with him? Is that what you're saying?

For some reason, I do not find your argument compelling.
 
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The word I would use to describe Bao Qian's feelings toward Ling Qi is... Intrigued.
I could also say fascinated or infatuated, but those have the wrong connotations.

At first Bao Qian approached Ling Qi with the idea of forming a typical noble marriage agreement. What else would he want when he didn't even know her?
But now he does know her and, as Bao Qingling said, he is completely off-balance.
In a good way.
Ling Qi has such a different Outlook on life, like she calling her spirits family. Many of his tactics don't work, and he doesn't understand much of her. And he finds himself drawn to that. He wants to understand.
Of course, he still believes that they are the perfect couple from a marital bussiness perspective.
But I would say that he now also looks for Ling Qi to develope actual affection for him. Of course this is just a guess. I can't say for certain.

Also, when did Bao Qian put his life at risk for Ling Qi? I can't remember anything like that.
 
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