I think its that, three dynasties later, the masses still identify with the Weilu.Deer Uncle on his stag do? Or at least this is confirmation that Deer Uncle's style
They got mythologized and put on a pedestal
I think its that, three dynasties later, the masses still identify with the Weilu.Deer Uncle on his stag do? Or at least this is confirmation that Deer Uncle's style
I'd hate this TBH. LQ is absolutely not ace right now. She could make herself ace, but considering the way Cultivation works she'd be making herself asexual by surgically removing bits of her soul ("Cultivation is directed self-mutilation" has been a constant theme), and that's sort of yikes? I feels rude to say ace people are lacking something, they're just different.i'd stan an Ace Ling Qi, 100%. Though i agree with Sixi that she has to actually think about and realise whether or not she want intimate relationships.
Might be, but thinking about the possibility a bit, while I'm not sure how I'd feel about that for Ling Qi, I kinda suspect her mom might just outright die from how many alerts any Zheng husbando option would ring.
Unlikely.
I, for one, am definitely interested in Ling Qi finding romance. I just want them to actually be interesting, for both the reader and Ling Qi. I think Ling Qi needs someone who makes her want to adventure, to sing and dance and make mischief. Not a merchant who will bring x, y and z to her barony. Ya know?
So Sixiang then? No need to bother with silly human cultivators when best Muse is right there being their best Enby self![]()
heretics wanting to fuck the therapist*raises finger*
*lowers finger*
Hmm…
Huh…
That's a disconcertingly good point.
She's not ace though - or at least not unless she deliberately leaves that on her Way. We know that she likes the abs.i'd stan an Ace Ling Qi, 100%. Though i agree with Sixi that she has to actually think about and realise whether or not she want intimate relationships.
Setting yourself up for a possibly ugly breakup with the person who lives inside your head is not 'the safest possible choice".To take a probably-joke seriously: Sixiang is a cool character, but hopefully any romance arc with Ling Qi will be about her expanding her world rather than circling the wagons. As Meizhen's whole arc demonstrates, part of growing and maturing with respect to interpersonal relationships is realizing that you will hurt and be hurt, and sometimes it won't really be anyone's fault, and finding a way to accept all that. Going with the safest possible choice would feel like a serious failure on her part to grow and develop as a person.
Setting yourself up for a possibly ugly breakup with the person who lives inside your head is not 'the safest possible choice".
Turtleboy isn't a bad matchup! Its just...extremely unlikely we'll ever see his muscles. He's like LQ, always shy and always gonna be covering up. Completely.psst...
Dont confront the Shipers about their fantasy, better they concentrate on impossible machup then, a bad one Like Bao, (or turtleboi).
Transference isn't uncommon. Vulnerability shown to therapists make for easy crush fuel...
Wingthem. Might be my new favourite term.Nope. Sixiang is the best wingman...well. wingthem. Idk what other term to use. Six is the best! Best friend, best therapist and LQ is very lucky to have them...how about we don't risk that all for something that might not work out? Yes? Yes.
A.N.
@yrsillar Omake for the Omake throne. Hey everybody, lets have some apocryphal Band A.U! Not only a Band A.U but a Modern and School A.U to boot! Got to twist those plot points in somehow. Please blame @Lady_Story @ActionKermit @barty @Elsecaller for putting this idea into my head over on the discord. I now spread my cursed thoughts unto you. In this A.U I was also thinking the Bai are definitely a Triad/Yakuza/Mafia/Crime family.
So...psst...
Dont confront the Shipers about their fantasy, better they concentrate on impossible machup then, a bad one Like Bao, (or turtleboi).
So, first meeting...
He's ostentatious. He wears rich fabrics and precious gems. His initial presentation is as a jewel - a rare and valuable thing, to be desired and coveted.
- There's too much of it to quote, but on his first meeting, he is generous with politeness and honest praise.
- Here we get a hint of his "always be hustling". He is always looking for ways of making more money... but he's looking for it in mutually beneficial deals, rather than exploitative ones. He wants to become increasingly wealthy, certainly, but he wants to lift up those that come with him at the same time. We also get a hint below the courtly talk. My read is that he really is comfortable in the whirl of courtly discussion. He enjoys the dance of words. The Bao Qian that we see here is in some ways the true Bao Qian.
He pays attention to the probable needs of the peopel aroudn him, and is considerate. At the same time, he does have his pride... and he advertises.
Again, always be hustling.
- side note from QM indicates that Ling Qi is just about 16 (may have turned 16 since?) and he's between two and three years older than she is.
Always be hustling.
He's unwilling to share the secrets of family, but absolutely willing to smooth over whatever can be smoothed.
His spirit does not share his opinions of the gentle art of conversation, but, I suspect, was far to valuable to pass up.
- in general, he shows an effort to smooth things over, he looks for opportunities to honestly complement, and he is straightforward with his offers whenever he sees an opportunity for mutual benefit. It's like... the complements and social dancing is an aura he maintains (easily and happily, with some enjoyment) but the financial opportunities that arise are the payoff, and he'll absolutely take a shot at every one of them that presents itself.
From a financial strategy standpoint, he (and, it seems, the Bao in general) are in favor of achieving sustainable wealth and long-term investments, even if it means a loss in short-term gains. They prefer victories that can be achieved without causing anyone else a defeat. He's going to be looking to the long-term in his planning. or a guy like this, that is a notable aspect of his personality.
In particular from the bit about risk - he does not mind personal financial risk, if it comes with appropriate potential payoff, but he deplores collateral damage.
The Bao know that they are unusual, with their focus on growth and commerce. Bao Qian enjoys being Bao in this way.
...and we have more quotes that keep hammering the same themes. He is always looking for opportunities for mutual profit, he is entirely up front about his financial tendencies, and he's charming and friendly while he does it.
I'm going to agree with Sixiang here. I don't think he is in any way hiding what he is. He's presenting the greater part of himself up front, with the intent that we know what he's offering. He looks at the potential marriage as a potentially major deal - perhaps the most important in his life - and while he'd like to make it happen, it would be better to have no deal at all than a deal that goes sour. As such, he's presenting himself about as straightforwardly as he can - the charming merchant and businessman through and through - only dialing it back a bit because he doesn't want to overwhelm us. He's a salesman, and he would dearly like to know what Ling Qi wants, so that he can see if he can figure out a way to offer it. Of course, that's made harder by the fact that Ling Qi doesn't really know what she wants... and harder still by the fact that part of what she wants is "desperately run away".
First, he is trying very hard to make this deal work. That's a bit of insight here. It is a deal for him, and one he seeks to make mutually advantageous. He sees a lot to admire in Ling Qi, certainly, but he isn't emotionally engaged in the way that, say, Xuan Shi is, or even the wistful dalliance with the idea of romance that Gu Rejected had. He's taking the first steps to forge a marriage deal with "Baroness Ling, Black Left Hand of the Heir to the Cai", and any romancing of "Ling Qi, sixteen-year-old girl" that happens along the way would be at least partially in service to that, rather than for its own sake. At the same time, he values many of Ling Qi's aspects that others would grow romantic over as well... it's just that romance is not the lens by which he approaches it.
Further, he's willing to drag himself out of his comfort zone in order to try to meet us where we are. He's willing to work on this one, and he continues to be open and up-front and fully honest. He absolutely thinks that he's worthy of us, and he thinks he can prove it. He has the Bao confidence... but if all that comes out of this is a series of mutually beneficial business agreements and an ongoing business contact, he'll still count it as a win.
Finally, there is his ambition. He doesn't want to be handed his wins. He wants to earn them. He wants to be able to look back on his life and say "I am wealthy, with many great works, and I deserve every bit of it." He wants to be a force that creates wealth, not just one that possesses it.
Or, for the TLDR
- He's an honestly friendly, gregarious guy. He's generous with the complements and tries to make the conversations around him feel good to be in because that's the kind of guy he likes to be. He enjoys the conversational dance. He's completely blunt and up-front about seeking business deals of mutual profit any time he can find them, and he is always hustling. "Friendly, ambitious, money-loving businessman who will make good deals with you" is his natural state, and the mode he's most comfortable in, and not a bit of it is fake.
- He's ostentatious. His outfit speaks of glittering wealth, and he's dripping in jewelry. The Bao are all about being wealthy and seeking to be more wealthy, and he enjoys being Bao. He has profound self-confidence, of the sort that only avoids outright arrogance by not being in any way obnoxious or denigrating to others. He just thinks very highly of himself, while also being happy to think highly (and speak highly) of those around him.
- He is very mercantile, and not even remotely ashamed of it. (See "enjoys being Bao".) He's looking at the potential match with Ling Qi as, in effect, a potential business agreement between the two of them... one that wouldn't come to fruition for a number of years regardless, and one where the virtues he can see in her as a person (and the ones he presents in return) are absolutely part of the exchange, but the attitude is as a business deal. It's an opportunity for mutual profit that he thinks both he and she would find very profitable indeed. By the same token, if it falls through? Well, there's no merit in making yourself miserable over the deals you didn't make when you could instead be making other also-profitable deals. If at the end of the day all he is to Ling Qi is a valued business contact with an ongoing series of mutually beneficial deals, that's a win in his book, and he'll take it as such. This is in stark contrast with Xuan Shi, for example, who gets emotionally entangled very easily, and is prepared to throw resources at the object of his affections without ever actually admitting his interest.
- Given how mercantile he is, his overall financial strategy and ethics actually are a significant part of his character. From what we've seen, he's upright and honest, he seeks mutual profit rather than exploitation, he prefers long-term investments to short-term payoffs, he sees much of war as wasteful rather than glorious, and in general he sees no value in unnecessary conflict. He's willing to accept personal financial risk, if the potential payoff is good enough, but he deplores collateral damage. I suspect that part of him admires Zhengui in that way... Zhengui walks, and the world is made wealthier by his passing.
- finally, we get to the end, when he really opens up, and we see a few things. First, while it's true that he'd be willing to take a lesser win, it's also the case that he's willing to push himself to get a shot at making this thing with Ling Qi work. He pushes himself into a kind of talking that is uncomfortable to him, and she really doesn't make it any easier, and he just keeps pushing through it, in spite of the discomfort. His main problem isn't unwillingness. He's willing to do quite a bit. His main issue is that Ling Qi isnt' giving him a whole lot to work with in how he's supposed to connect with her. WE also get his ambition. He doesn't want to merely own riches and possess great works. He wants to generate riches, and create great works. He wants to honestly earn his wealthy ending.
...and yeah, yeah that was the TLDR.
I think that's enough for the first meeting. I'll follow up further in later posts.
This bit's interesting, and perhaps pertinent, but to me it makes perfect sense. An up-and-coming rebel against the establishment, trying to seize power by force of arms? That's not necessarily a good potential business partner. A freshly ascendant Duke with a hatred for corruption, a fetish for law and order and justice, and a desire to see her lands thrive? That is an excellent potential business partner.
It does suggest that it might be worth checking out our initial interaction with the Bao, however (back in Forge). Bao Qian really is very Bao, in a number of ways, and it might give good perspective.
...and on further inspection, all that initial interaction does is reaffirm the same themes, in a slightly different package. Friendly, pleasant, ostentatious, and absolutely willing to prioritize things like "potential for opening up valuable trade routes" and "maintaining good customer relations" over petty trifles like who gets honored by which visitor. They dance the courtly dance in order to maximize wealth, and they even enjoy it, but they dance it in a very gentle and noncompetitive way because maximizing wealth is the point of the matter, rather than whatever it is that everyone else is fighting for. They're just here because it's the best place to make deals.
So... second major on-screen meeting, where we ask him about the parting gift for Xiulan, as the war is heating up.
So here we get some interesting insight. He is absolutely willing to put himself at risk, even at risk of personal danger, in order to establish and maintain his reputation. In particular, it appears that he values Ling Qi's opinion of him enough that that would have been sufficient unto itself.
...and he does have interests other than making money. The technical aspects of caves (and the financial implications thereof) are apparently (and, in retrospect, unsurprisingly) one of them.
He's willing to put his life at some risk in pursuit of Ling Qi's affections. He's even willing to do the work itself for free. He's not willing to just cover the material costs, however. If Ling Qi can't handle that, then clearly he was wrong, and she isn't the girl for him after all. If she can't maintain a solid relationship as a business partner first, then the relationship was doomed from the start.
...and at the same time, the labor was a gift... and he put in the effort to make it truly beautiful.
Now, on to the third meeting, where they're hashing out their first set of deals... and then segue into the no-really-this-is-a-date.
Again, here I think we see him pushing himself to try to present a face that is more comfortable for her to receive, rather than the one that is more comfortable for him to project. He's actually grasping at words a few times, with a bit of stammering.
And this bit of scene has a lot of interesting things happening in it. With the beginning bit... first, he's walking her through the steps of a friendly negotiation. It's the sort of discussion I imagine he hopes to have with her many more times than just this. Moreover, it's something that he's desperately wanted more of - Ling Qi (and, as a bonus, her spirits), honestly and in their own words just telling him what they want. Ling Qi may be embarrassed by Zhengui's blunt declaration of intent, but that's exactly the sort of information that Bao Qian was hoping to get... how to keep the big guy happy and not step on his toes. His own response lets him slip in another complement without being untoward, and also lets him revisit the offer to sell her songs for her. Up to that point, it's a stunning success for him... and then Ling Qi suddenly drops the bit about Hanying's singing in his lap. He absolutely wants to make this thing work, and this is part of making this thing work, and he's trying to figure out the right angles to put together a mutually beneficial arrangement that won't break his new business idea before it begins... and then Ling Qi tosses a personal favor in there, and that's simply too valuable for him to pass up, even though he's gritting his teeth trying to figure out how to make it work... and then it turns out that the potential for profit on Zhengui's side is notably greater than he had expected, and suddenly everything's okay again, because he has some space to work with.
So... what I read from this is interesting. First, I think I initially underestimated how much he wants this thing to work out. I think I got the flavor of the interest correct, but not its intensity (if that makes sense). Bao Qian is willing to do quite a lot to attract Ling Qi's romantic attentions, but the relationship he wants is built on top of a paradigm of business partners. If either one of them isn't making profit from the deal, then the entire thing rots at the foundation. This makes some interesting distinctions for what he is and is not willing to do. He's willing to work at cost, for small things, in order to gain favor. He's willing to adopt a social form that he personally finds very uncomfortable. He's willing to put himself at nontrivial physical risk for her favor... but he's not willing to take a loss. The idea of a personal favor from her is tremendously compelling for him... but he's not willing to take a loss from it. That's what makes him so uncomfortable with Hanying's request... because he has to figure out a way for everyone involved to profit from the deal, and he is hurting himself trying to figure out how to make Hanying's thing work and also avoid a loss. Then best Turtlesnake busts out with "Many, many wheelbarrows" and suddenly everything gets easier.
And now what do we get here?
- Well, first, he pays attention to family. He knows how his cousin normally acts, he cares, and when she starts acting oddly, he gets concerned. He also knows Ling Qi well enough by now to pick something up from her tells... but is also more interested in peace than in the pertinent information, and thus lets it go.
- and then he pushes the invitation to a date. It's... just about the best chance he's going to get, really, and he knows it, and he pushes it even though it'll make her uncomfortable, because this is the chance he's got.
...and I think with that, I'm tapped out. I'll return to this on another day.
He did not expect her to say "yes", necessarily. He really did not expect her to say "yes" after obviously seizing control of herself. The result... is for him both more of a win than he probably expected and a far more awkward win than he could possibly have expected. I mean, let's just grab this one quote.
Just... just to savor that one for a moment.
Bao Qian is absolutely walking into this one with the expectation that it could go down in flames... but he can't back down. Also, the man is not afraid of taking on some personal risk when the situation calls for it.
Oh, ow. That... yeah. That's going to keep showing up as a problem with Bao Qian going forward, as he is both a source of income and someone who's pressing romantic attentions on her that she'd be more comfortable without.
and here? He's dialed back. He actually dressed down for his date from his standard outfit, and switched to darker colors to better match her (and maybe show off his chest a bit in the hope that that helps). At some level, part of him probably just hopes to make it through the night without everything going down in flames.
Some of the fundamental disconnects between them show up to says "hi", but he's handling it pretty well.
And she leaves herself wide open, entirely unintentionally... and he refuses the gambit, because he knows that this night is fragile.
Ling Qi's roll about this date was a single composure check. I feel like BaoQuest altverse had something like four rolls and three different votes, all fo which could have gone badly.
In his natural state, Bao Qian is ostentatious, gregarious, and unashamedly forthright in matters of finance. Of the three, for Ling Qi, he's learned that the last one works and the first two do not, and he's adjusting accordingly.
...and this one, I think, is interesting for reasons beyond just this one relationship. Ling Qi doesn't have any goal beyond the desire for power itself. She has nothing guiding her. That's... potentially dangerous. Jiao has pointed out to us the dangers of having your Way wrapped around another person, and he's right, but is having your Way wrapped around nothing at all really any better?
Beyond that, Bao Qian clearly finds this an alien mindset. To him, cultivation is something that you pursue (at potentially significant cost in time, resources, and risk) because it lets you achieve other things. The idea of a desperate craving for power for its own sake is alien to him. He's a very privileged young man, in many ways. He's never had a risk he didn't choose for himself. He has no real understanding of the kind of trauma that drives her, and that's a lot of why he finds it so difficult to understand her.
...and here it shows up again, even moreso. He's visibly grappling with trying to understand the implications of a childhood in the gutter, while having essentially no context to really get it. To her, they're blindingly obvious, and should have followed pretty much instantly just from knowing that that's where she came from. He's... basically trying to work it out while continuing to be honest, hoping to get some better understanding of how to deal with her, and she's finding the things he's saying to be critical and at least a little insulting. Admittedly, on the face of them they are, but that's because he's had to discard all of the social skills that he has for softening the edge of such things.
And then she touches on part of the thesis at the core of her again, and it almost flits by him He doesn't have the context to ground it. At the same time, he wants to help. His is a paradigm where raising up the people around you is helpful to both you and them, and he's following that. Helping her understand the context she now inhabits will absolutely and obviously be helpful to her, and he wants to be helpful to her, but it also helps give them a bit mroe common ground to work with, given how hard he's finding it to stand on the ground on her side of things.
Bao Qian: "Okay. Maybe I can get her talking about herself. People like talking about themselves, right? Perhaps the origin of one of her spirits? Hanyi's backstory sounds interesting, and it'll also get her talking about her mentor. People generally like talking about their spirits and mentors, right?
Ling Qi: (instantly flashes to thinking about Hanyi's dad) "So... I might want to take a bit of time thinking about how to approach this one first. Deflect!"
Bao Qian: "But... but... how was that not a safe topic?"
It's from an entirely different direction, but, again, Ling Qi has had real trauma in her life, and Bao Qian just hasn't.
Again, Bao Qian is being careful, here.
...and, again, Ling Qi has her trauma.
...and Bao Qian simply cannot stop hustling. He's pretty good at making it not unpleasant, but I don't think he has it in him to just let an opportunity go. Of course, we also see another side of this, because it seems that he really is into music as a thing to listen to and appreciate and share. It's like... Bao Qian wants to make the world a wealthier place (and in so doing, thrive personally as well) and music is another form of wealth that he'd like to see spread around. These new recording techniques let him straight-up increase the amount of good music in the world (while making money for himself and all others involved) and that draws him.
I feel like, for a guy who has "become wealthier, and never be satisfied" as one of his core drives, he's surprisingly unselfish.
...and here, again, we have a fair bit to unpack. Ling Qi is a creature of the cold - of want and need and desperation and hardship. Her world is one of honest, unpretentious viciousness. Bao Qian is in many ways the opposite. He, too, is honest and unpretentious, but his is a world of warmth and plenty and luxury. His is the voice telling her that she is no longer weak and starving, and that she is now capable of having happiness that will not be inevitably snuffed out. At the same time, there's some real payoff here from Carefree Mantle, I think, because it looks like he starts to get it.
We also get the contrast between their ambitions. Hers is that desperate greed - fighting for every scrap you can get, because it is all precious and fragile and you have to be as strong as you can in order to keep it as safe as you can for as long as you can before it inevitably collapses. He's on the flip side - his greed is not so desperate, but it is just as unending. There is always more wealth to pursue. There are always more works to be created. The world can always be further improved (and he can benefit by being the instrument of that improvement. Bao Qian is a creature of plenty.
...and yet, this still does not in any way scare him off. He's more pleased by gaining the insight than he is put off by the degree of damage Ling Qi has.
and then there's the lesser encounters since then.
And, from a scene that had almost no Bao Qian in it...
That... that's an ooof, that is. It went pretty well, and Bao Qian did his best to be supprotive and nonthreatening. Even so, to Ling Qi's mind, that dinner they spent together was one of the most harrowign experiences she's put herself through.
...and another
Bao Qian is still graplign with the whole thing. Bao Qingling is enjoyign seeing him off-balance. I get the idea that that's not a usual experience for him. I imagine he's not before found a prize worth pushing himself for to that degree.
...and another
so, we had the expedition. We had the conversation with Bao Qian. Did we ever ask him about it?
Huh. Peripherally... and I'd bet that he knows (or at least guesses) what we're talking about, and is hopeful that we can help. He does pay attention to family, after all.
but that wasn't the interesting part of this conversation. Instead, after a solid chunk of easy back-and-forth discussing the results of our recent incursion (where Bau Qian actually managed to remain reasonably comfortable in spite of it being more Ling Qi's language than his own)....
He's flirting. He's actually legitimately fitting in some mild flirtation stuff, into a conversation that both of them feel comfortable about, and not freaking her out. He managed to get a lot better at understanding her, and understanding how to interact with her, over the course of that date. The "No, really, she has a desperate and unending hunger for cultivation itself and the resources that drive it." is the thing that he was leveraging in this part, plus, I think, the insight that she needed to not feel vulnerable or powerless. Of course, she's getting more generally comfortable with him, as well.
So... on to the TLDR. I apologize, in that I suspect this will not be as good as I could manage under other circumstances. Analysis takes ergs, and I've been spending a rather lot of them on this. That having been said...
His experience is really very alien to Ling Qi's. Bao Qian is a cheerful, friendly, stable guy. His natural world is one in which he finds ways to benefit everyone around him, and benefits himself in so doing. His natural experience of threat and risk is that it's something that only happens because you choose it, in pursuit of greater gains. His idea of the lower classes? Honestly, I expect that it's something like "the way they are treated is a terrible waste. If you'd just support them and invest properly, they'd have much better lives, and be much more productive and everyone would benefit. Why is this so hard for people?" That's... probably at some level that's his default attitude towards Ling Qi. She has tremendous potential, but is held back by certain details of her upbringing. (He's not wrong.) He's in a position to help her develop that potential, and them both benefit by it, and that is his standard approach to life. It's not going to be easy, and it's not guaranteed, but he's willing to work and to risk in pursuit of gains like this.
Now, some folks may look at this and find it objectionable, but the trick to realize is that he's entirely even-handed about it. He sees great value in her future potential and her current capability. He thinks that they can be very profitable together... and that's exactly how he'd like to be assessed as well. He's not setting himself above her in this. It's not her normal kind of relationship, but it's not in any way unfair. In the same way that Bai Meizhen is a snake, Bao Qian is a glittering gemstone. You can tell by the care he puts into his setting. As far as he's concerned, she's the objectively correct wife-choice for him, and he thinks he can present a compelling argument that he's the objectively correct husband-choice for her. He's starting it out as a business partnership because in his experience, the way to build a healthy marriage is to make the bones of it a very close, intimate, and personally important business partnership.
Now, in pursuit of this, he's been bending over backwards in order to try to understand her well enough to connect with her on her level. She's been putting in effort, too, but all of her effort has been on things like "don't just assume that he's evil", "don't run away screaming", and "try to open up a bit and actually say things". Being romantically involved with Ling Qi takes work, and he's shown he's willing to put in that kind of work... and, lately, he's been having some success on crossing that divide.
Honestly, I think that's one of his strong points. Bao Qian's idea of what a marriage should look like might seem a bit odd, but I'd bet it works... and Ling Qi has no basis for even knowing what something like that might look like. Having a marriage work requires effort, and Bao Qian is willing to put in that effort, and even help her learn how to manage her side of it. He's seen far enough into her that he's seen the damage, even if he doesn't understand it, and he's putting in the work to handle that damage.
I dunno. I think we've actually seen enough to understand him pretty well by now.
...and that finishes the set. Time to go back and look at the responses.