Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
huh so reading up on the discord logs from right after the update, and ive gotta say that I can completely understand why Yrs got set off.

Kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinda more or less disgusted with how things got so bad in the thread and in there.

Like, I'm pretty pissed with how the nonsensical complaints from certain people that are never pleased just about pushed Yrs to the breaking point, but you'd think that at some point they'd acquire some measure of self restraint

Its more or less a dead issue now, but frankly speaking dumping on Yrs hard work to the point of ruining his fun right off the tails of another quest i really enjoy coming to an end because mechanics sucked the fun out of it for the QM hits a nerve to the point where I couldn't let it go without comment.
 
God, I wish that Yrsillar had made EANP pretty, perhaps fey instead of demons. The most common complaint against it I hear is things like "fugly summons". AE has the same issues.

The next arts dive we do, can we specify only pretty summon effects/other effects?

Edit: mainly from yrsillar's sake, it must suck putting in all that work creating an art only to have it discarded because of ascetics.

Aesthetics are only one of a whole host of problems with EANP and training it this turn. And for the record, I hate AE as well - worms are both hideous and antithematic, and I can't wait until we get rid of it.
 
God, I wish that Yrsillar had made EANP pretty, perhaps fey instead of demons. The most common complaint against it I hear is things like "fugly summons". AE has the same issues.

The next arts dive we do, can we specify only pretty summon effects/other effects?

Edit: mainly from yrsillar's sake, it must suck putting in all that work creating an art only to have it discarded because of ascetics.
Well, its like Water sneaking in everywhere. Summons tend to be spoopy and gross for some reason.
PLR the only one that is aesthetically pleasing that we have buts its not a real summoning.

On the other hand this particular art is more eerie than fugly. It plays the song that turns the sun off.
 
God, I wish that Yrsillar had made EANP pretty, perhaps fey instead of demons. The most common complaint against it I hear is things like "fugly summons". AE has the same issues.

The next arts dive we do, can we specify only pretty summon effects/other effects?

Edit: mainly from yrsillar's sake, it must suck putting in all that work creating an art only to have it discarded because of ascetics.
Aesthetic is an important consideration, as is theme, but they aren't a deciding factor and rather subjective besides.

No, the problem with EANP is primarily one of function, and in a different way from AE.

AE's problem is that it's an FSS-like area attack Art with purely combat/single target CC constructs. The attacks directly compete with FSS and run off of Intelligence+Projecton, making them (mostly) useless to us. The constructs alone don't justify the training and meridian cost*.

ENAP runs off of music which is great, but it's a summon/support/debuff Art that works backwards;
- it creates breakable minions that provide the support and offensive area effects
- uses the minion's stats for the attack components instead of our (soon to be) overwhelming music.

An actually good EANP-like art would be more like AE, except with AC/FZ-like team support techs and feedback self-buffs instead of FSS-type damage. The minions should focus more directly on useful combat roles and leave the de/buffing to us;
- offensive tanky/numerous combatants
- personal utility support (sacrifice play, grapples etc)

It would still compete with FSS and FVM as well as our stealth/support suite for meridians, and I still question the utility of necessarily-weaker minions compared to field effects like Dissonance, but at least it would add something new to our build (proper AC+FZ replacement) and actually use our dispel resist for the bigger scope effects.

*Qi card summons are an option, but AE worms rely somewhat on the signature mist, so while usable they won't be as strong. (and if we're going for item-summons then formation-based would offer far better flexibility).
 
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Aesthetic is an important consideration, as is theme, but they aren't a deciding factor and rather subjective besides.

No, the problem with EANP is primarily one of function, and in a different way from AE.

AE's problem is that it's an FSS-like area attack Art with purely combat/single target CC constructs. The attacks directly compete with FSS and run off of Intelligence+Projecton, making them (mostly) useless to us. The constructs alone don't justify the training and meridian cost*.

ENAP runs off of music which is great, but it's a summon/support/debuff Art that works backwards;
- it creates breakable minions that provide the support and offensive area effects
- uses the minion's stats for the attack components instead of our (soon to be) overwhelming music.

An actually good EANP-like art would be more like AE, except with AC/FZ-like team support techs and feedback self-buffs instead of FSS-type damage. The minions should focus more directly on useful combat roles and leave the de/buffing to us;
- offensive tanky/numerous combatants
- personal utility support (sacrifice play, grapples etc)

It would still compete with FSS and FVM as well as our stealth/support suite for meridians, and I still question the utility of necessarily-weaker minions compared to field effects like Dissonance, but at least it would add something new to our build (proper AC+FZ replacement) and actually use our dispel resist for the bigger scope effects.

*Qi card summons are an option, but AE worms rely somewhat on the signature mist, so while usable they won't be as strong. (and if we're going for item-summons then formation-based would offer far better flexibility).

EANP could be perfect and would still have people voting against it due to the aesthetics. Summoning already has to fight the never summon cabal without the additional inertia being "ugly" creates. Also, the support effects are breakable but last longer. Joyous Toast is instant, Stolid Guardian Pipers is long.

Though now I am wishing EANP had a spine or arm meridian so an Ossuary Horror could summon for us.
 
"So, that was the source of your unease, and that strange question," Cai Renxiang mused.

They stood in one of the mountains many training fields, to take advantage of its privacy. It was one of her liege's preferred venues, a field of paved stone filled with two meter tall stone pillars spaced just far enough apart for a single person to squeeze between. They spoke in the only exception, a small cleared space in the center one meter by one meter wide.

"If you noticed, why didn't you ask?" Ling Qi said, standing straight with her hands hidden in her sleeves.

Cai Renxiang raised an eyebrow, meeting her eyes without seeming to look up, despite their difference in height. "It is not my business. Would you prefer that I pry into your personal matters?"
You know, this is a little of an interesting question from Ling Qi, given that she's spent most of the time being super private, and that Renxiang almost certainly suspects Ling Qi had some rulebreaking in first year that she'd be forced to take action on if she did ask and was answered.
Cai Renxiang crossed her arms, her expression drawing down into a frown. "I am aware that your reasons for swearing yourself to me were a mixture of mercenary and personal interest. I did not object to this as I have observed that your loyalty is strong, despite that. Yet, I had not considered that you lacked understanding of what I desire, rather than simply being ambivalent to it."

Ling qi's hands tightened inside of her sleeves as she looked down. "We haven't spoken much about your goals," she admitted. "But… what you want is a peaceful and orderly society isn't it?"

"In the simplest terms, yes," Cai Renxiang looked troubled, the gleam of light around her shoulders sending the shadows of the pillars flickering wildly.

"While I was composing that song, my mind kept turning back to what I saw in the dream," Ling Qi continued, as if she hadn't spoken. "The death, and the chaos and everything else. I don't want to see something like that again… and it's the opposite of what you want isn't it? That should be reason enough to support you. Even if it isn't sustainable in the long run. Having something better in our lifetimes is worth it."
You know, look at this conversation from Renxiang's perspective, its quite unsettling. Your dream and ideal, she does not oppose. She wholeheartedly supports it.

Even while she thinks its doomed in the end. Quite a hard idea to swallow from her more logically oriented perspective when Ling Qi thinks of it as a beautiful dream you'd wake from.
Cai Renxiang closed her eyes, and for a moment the field was silent. When she opened them again, her gaze was cool and serious. "Do you know, what I saw, after my fitting to Liming was complete?"

Ling Qi found her eyes watering slightly at the sudden brightness assailing them as she matched her lieges gaze. "I can't say I do," she said, a touch of nerves entering her tone.

"I saw the worlds inefficiency," Cai Renxiang replied. "The tangled threads where want overrode need. Where systems constructed nigh wholly by self interest and greed left ragged holes in societies tapestry, and left thousands to languish unfulfilled. I saw the frayed weft of a city still reeling from a war of gods."

Ling Qi recalled that Cai Renxiang would have been six years old at the time, and she found herself understanding some of the girls oddity. "You must have resented being forced to see something so ugly," while she couldn't wax lyrical on it without some time to compose, the petty ugliness of the streets and the savagery of the Hunt had both given her similar feelings.

"Perhaps, to a small degree, but Mother's work was not allowed to be corrupted so easily," Cai Renxiang replied with a shake of her head. "I still see those things, and it fills me the need to repair them, even as I am forced to engage with the broken loom it all hangs upon. If you never take anything else I say to heart, than take this Ling Qi. "I wish for a world in which all who fall under my responsibility can leave ordered and fulfilled lives."

"Even the ones who don't fit into that order?" Ling Qi asked wryly.

"Most, I think, would fit in peaceably enough, if not for the damages inflicted by the current state of things,that is simply a matter of time and transition" Cai Renxiang said confidently. "And those that remain are merely those whose requirements have not yet been accounted for. I firmly believe that with their needs met and acceptable avenues open for their wants, the citizenry of the empire will be better and more productive than ever, benefiting everyone."

The way she said it sounded so… dry and mechanical, but Ling Qi thought she understood where the other girl was coming from. How much of the ugliness that she had known would disappear into the wind without desperation driving it? Not all, of course, not nearly that, but a great deal regardless.

In other words, her vision is for a world of hmm...her perspective speaks of a grand, socialist planned economy. Powered by a superhuman bureaucracy and enforced by a god-king. Sort of like what SV CivBuilders tend to aspire to :p

The easy part is imposing authority.
The hard part is paying for it. Seems the easiest way is to have much more Red and Yellow cultivators producing the essential services, but then they're going to want SOME reason to stay in the game for a couple generations yet.


However, Ling Qi, there is something you must understand," her liege continued. "This will be a thankless task. You will not be above my laws, I will not create them with your direct benefit in mind. I have bent certain rules in last years proceedings, for the purpose of testing, but I will not weave such expectations into the foundations of what I seek to build. The Outer Sect was a testing ground, and what occurred there is to be remembered and learned from, but it must be left behind. You do understand that?"

"I do," Ling Qi replied slowly, thinking uncomfortably of her role in working with Fu Xiang. She would rather not get entangled in that sort of favor trading again anyway, it reminded her too much of the way things had been before. Still, she wondered if Cai Renxiang knew about it, the way she had phrased that… If she was so good at ferreting out secrets what had she even brought Ling Qi on for though? "Lady Cai, what you provide in 'fairness' is more than I would receive almost anywhere else, and...I believe in your good intent, I will not step away from that."
So no bribery, no tax evasion, no crimes evaded with state sanction or social status. Simple enough. Do the crime, do the time.
If she wants it to actually work out with Cultivators of significant power she's going to need to scale penalties by power level and also provide for alternative payment methods.

It occurs to me that it'd probably be pretty amusing if Ji Rong does identify one of these bent rules.
"As you say," Cai Renxiang replied, briefly closing her eyes. "There is much more yet to say, but those are conversations for a more comfortable venue. Not the least of which is that I may have to reevaluate your role."

Ling Qi blinked, raising her eyebrows in alarm. "...What does that mean?"

"That your skills as a musician may be the more important one," Cai Renxiang replied seriously as she stepped past her, heading for the exit. "You require more training… and more than a little discipline, but a more public diplomatic role may suite your skills better. Come, I would like to discuss the thematics I would like you to incorporate for your performance at this months gathering"

Sixiang, silent until now started laughing, and Ling Qi's eyebrow twitched.

...More mingling, just what she wanted. It seemed that the sacrifices were just beginning.
And finally, Renxiang wins Sixiang's approval. :p

In the wake of her challenge, the rest of the month passed by quickly, as Ling Qi returned her focus to her cultivation. There were a few spots of minor excitement. Meizhen challenging into the low seven hundreds, a memorable display by Xiulan that carried her up to a rank in the eight hundred and forties, and less memorable medicine mixing contest that left Li Suyin with her current rank.
Xiulan and Meizhen did as expected. Suyin is probably focusing on her breakthrough to keep her spot. At least she made a bunch of points out of it!
Her spars with Cai Renxiang began take on a more serious edge, and in the process inspired her to research arts that could fortify her other techniques against removal. Facing her liege was kind of a nightmare without it. The blazing light of the Cai families arts burned away her mist and phantoms before they could even properly form, scattered her darkness and shattered her armor, leaving Ling Qi to scramble among the pillars to avoid the glowing saber that carved through stone like warm butter.
Well, elemental advantage and we already knew there was a problem with dispels.
Just that everyone else wasn't very good at those.
 
[X] Drugged-Fueled Musical Battle Royale
 
BTW, I had made a mistake when calculating the odds of FVM- I knew that the odds weren't perfect, but had one more YSS. As is, it's 66%, not 88%. Given I was clear that I don't mind risking FVM8 when making the plan post, I won't change it unless I am asked to (E.G, add high pills, or something). So this is simply a heads up for those who may wish to vote something else unless I get enough people screaming at me.
 
I do have a question: what happens if the skill plan of one training plan gets voted for along with the other training plan ? Because it seems to be heading to that
Adhoc vote count started by Ayashi on Jan 31, 2019 at 11:36 AM, finished with 7958 posts and 57 votes.
 
I do have a question: what happens if the skill plan of one training plan gets voted for along with the other training plan ? Because it seems to be heading to that

They work just fine. The only real difference in both cases is that the EANP gives a +1 bonus per dice to the War Skill and the SNS plan gives the bonus to the Resilience Skill
 
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BTW, I had made a mistake when calculating the odds of FVM- I knew that the odds weren't perfect, but had one more YSS. As is, it's 66%, not 88%. Given I was clear that I don't mind risking FVM8 when making the plan post, I won't change it unless I am asked to (E.G, add high pills, or something). So this is simply a heads up for those who may wish to vote something else unless I get enough people screaming at me.
Consider this post the "get Arkeus to just put the goddammn high pills" petition, 1 in 8 odds of missing FVM is better than 1 in 3, especially if we do end up with time for the Zeqing SL this turn.
 
@yrsillar, I had two kinda random questions.

1) IIRC you mentioned that the Bai and Zheng were an ethnicity into themselves. Were the Sun originally Bai, or did they diverge enough beforehand/were an outsider cultivator family before Sun Shao conquered the jungle?

2) Given that the King of the forest blessed Ling Qi by changing her, would sufficiently perceptive cultivators be able to notice that fact?
 
BTW, I had made a mistake when calculating the odds of FVM- I knew that the odds weren't perfect, but had one more YSS. As is, it's 66%, not 88%. Given I was clear that I don't mind risking FVM8 when making the plan post, I won't change it unless I am asked to (E.G, add high pills, or something). So this is simply a heads up for those who may wish to vote something else unless I get enough people screaming at me.
Put me on the "you should high pills" wagon.

[X] Plan CRX won't bully us with her dispels anymore
[X] Plan CRX won't bully Druggie Ling Qi with her dispels anymore
[X] Plan Music Month
[X] Skill plan: Sweetly Social Songs
[X] SES plan Skills
-[X] Manipulation* 3, Presence* 3, Composure* 2, Resolve* 2 (20 points)
-[X] War 1, Perceptiveness** 3, Fortitude 2, Resilience* 3, Fade 2, Empathy* 3 (14 points)
-[X] Woodwind* 3 (6 points)

Also, apparently, the approval voting wagon :p
 
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@yrsillar, I had two kinda random questions.

1) IIRC you mentioned that the Bai and Zheng were an ethnicity into themselves. Were the Sun originally Bai, or did they diverge enough beforehand/were an outsider cultivator family before Sun Shao conquered the jungle?

2) Given that the King of the forest blessed Ling Qi by changing her, would sufficiently perceptive cultivators be able to notice that fact?

They were technically not native, but they'd been there since the first dynasty, so its semantic

Probably
 
Put me on the "you should high pills" wagon.

[] Plan CRX won't bully us with her dispels anymore
[] Plan Music Month
[] Skill plan: Sweetly Social Songs
[] SES plan Skills
-[] Manipulation* 3, Presence* 3, Composure* 2, Resolve* 2 (20 points)
-[] War 1, Perceptiveness** 3, Fortitude 2, Resilience* 3, Fade 2, Empathy* 3 (14 points)
-[] Woodwind* 3 (6 points)

Also, apparently, the approval voting wagon :p
Consider this post the "get Arkeus to just put the goddammn high pills" petition, 1 in 8 odds of missing FVM is better than 1 in 3, especially if we do end up with time for the Zeqing SL this turn.
I've added a high pill alternate version that you can approval vote on. Not a fan of changing my plan with such expense without significant backing just yet (Also I prefer taking the risk).
[] Plan CRX won't bully Druggie Ling Qi with her dispels anymore

Oh, and I would also prefer a 'no challenge' version to a high pill version, given how much spiritual/overflow it would give in exchange for argent vent.
 
Consider this post the "get Arkeus to just put the goddammn high pills" petition, 1 in 8 odds of missing FVM is better than 1 in 3, especially if we do end up with time for the Zeqing SL this turn.
My personal preference is to leave it alone, @Arkeus.

High resources are too expensive; they cost a full GSS and waste exactly half of that compared to using a GSS directly. Half a GSS is worth about one AP, and the advantage it gets us is not worth an AP.
 
[X] Plan CRX won't bully us with her dispels anymore
[X] Skill plan: Sweetly Social Songs

Changing skill vote.
 
My personal preference is to leave it alone, @Arkeus.

High resources are too expensive; they cost a full GSS and waste exactly half of that compared to using a GSS directly. Half a GSS is worth about one AP, and the advantage it gets us is not worth an AP.
That, and training FVM next turn has the fortunate side effect of making woodwind/manipulation have the +1s from keywords, as well as mean we'll see Zeqing then too.
 
just a reminder that the Plan Music Month is basically arks plan but with one more AP to FVM and one less to SES. That makes FVM easy (100% chance) but gets us only to SES3
 
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I really, really want to slot FVM, and 66% chance is not enough for me(as we will finish a lot of arts and thus risk slotting a lot of arts), I just didn't notice it at first.

[X] Drugged-Fueled Musical Battle Royale
 
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